That's essentially where I'm at right now. The next conversation is going to be me telling her that I CANNOT have just a platonic relationship. She might think that's all we had in the past...but that REALLY is what we have now. And I can't "just be friends" because that doesn't work for me.
Her response to anything I say for the past two months has been this: I just need some time to stop being so angry. I think being apart for a few years would help me forget. And then maybe we'll get back together.
I don't believe that's a solution to the problem. And when she asks me about where our wedding picture is or comes over without prompting I know there's something there. She just had to find it without me forcing things....just like she tried to force things on me. Won't work for either of us...
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
I hate to say this, because I know that fundamentally it is wrong, but I can see your wife's perspective on the "waiting a few years" thing. I have often thought that about my H - that if we could just be apart for a year or so and he could get help, things would better.
Anyway...of course now I've come to the conclusion that it's the two of us who are to blame, so being apart isn't a way to solve that problem. I'm still guessing your wife is acting on fear and past anger, and that what she really wants - more than anything - is to get back together with you and have that loving, sexually fulfilling marriage she always dreamed about. It's too bad counseling isn't an option she wants to consider - she could probably shorten that "few years" into a few months.
Quote: Anyway...of course now I've come to the conclusion that it's the two of us who are to blame, so being apart isn't a way to solve that problem. I'm still guessing your wife is acting on fear and past anger, and that what she really wants - more than anything - is to get back together with you and have that loving, sexually fulfilling marriage she always dreamed about.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. We both did things wrong, but she still wants it to be more about what I did wrong. She says she may need years apart but that's not a solution in my book. We need to work it out little by little. That fear and anger won't solve anything, and I just wish she could give herself the gift of forgiveness.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
I agree that the WA wants very much to believe that he/she can have a fulfilling M/R and sex life withus but are afraid of the pain if it doesn't work. I think my H is fighting himself to prove that he will not be hurt again. I too feel like he wants to punish me for the pain but I did not get to this place in my M alone.
Hi DB, After reading some more of your replies, it seems to me that a large part of your sexual problems stemmed from the fact that you did not initiate. That you waited for your wife to initiate and when she got tired of that, the sex dwindled down to nothing. Am I on the mark with this?
The reason I am asking this is to help you figure out what you are going to do to remedy this in the future for WHEN you get her back. Because I really fear that if this issue is not resolved, you will be right back where you are now. I think that, even if she were to become comfortable with your new libido, she will never again agree to be the sole initiator. She fought that tooth and nail with her ugly attitude and either she did not tell you what the problem REALLY was (she was the sole initiator) or you had become confused because the message was so negative that all you heard was anger.
What ways do you feel comfortable initiating? What ways are too intimidating or feel unnatural to you? What can you do instead of these?
To an HD person, feeling desire is paramount. Having a partner who is "willing" sucks. Having someone approach you because they are turned on by you is priceless!! So you wanting sex more than you did previously is simply not enough for her. She has to believe that you want sex frequently and that you will initiate AT LEAST 50% of the time. And show her that you desire her.
The reason (imo) that she is still signed up on the online dating sites is that she needs to prove to herself that she is desirable. She has convinced herself of all these awful things because of your behavior towards her--that she is not sexy or desirable or feminine, etc. She needs affirmation from outside sources that she is not these things before she can begin to heal. (for the record, I don't think she needs this but she does and that is who you are married to) She can't take your word for it because your word has proved unreliable to her in the past.
You can turn this around by giving her smaller versions of the things she was looking for while you were married. How would she react if you sent her an email telling her how sexy she looked last time you saw her? Or relate a sexy dream you had. Anything to show her that you are not afraid to mention sex to her and that you find her irresistable. Think of the types of things that you used to do while dating and do those. You might think, "I've been doing those things already with no results!" but you must wear her down. Consistent behavior is what she is looking for from you. When she doesn't see any glimpses of the "old" DB then she will relax and begin to let you back into her heart and body.
Has she filed for D? When my H 1st left I tried to come on to him by dancing and he wouldn't let me. Then 2 wks later he called me and asked me to dance for him. Now is is making request and I am avilable. I don't know if this is going to bring him back but atleast we are ML 1-2 X's a week.
Quote: After reading some more of your replies, it seems to me that a large part of your sexual problems stemmed from the fact that you did not initiate. Am I on the mark with this?
That is correct. In the beginning, she did all the initiation, and then stopped. I think I thought I wasn't getting the job done (dumb) or that it was some kind of bait and switch. When I did initiate I never felt like it was acknowledged by her, and so I felt caught either way.
Quote: What ways do you feel comfortable initiating? What ways are too intimidating or feel unnatural to you? What can you do instead of these?
After having time apart, time seeing my own C and a sex therapist I think I have a greater understanding of my sexuality than ever before. There was a long time when I felt sexually intimidated by my W because she had more Ps and actually helped teach a sex class in college. Talk about pressure...but it was all in my head.
Now that I've unscrewed my head I feel free to have fantasies about her, I've made a long list of things to do and places to do it, and I'm not really uncomfortable anymore about anywhere/anytime. I guess in some ways I had to catch up to her level. And I feel like I've finally done that.
Quote: To an HD person, feeling desire is paramount. Having a partner who is "willing" sucks. Having someone approach you because they are turned on by you is priceless!!
That's very true and something that I've learned. I would say that I now have desire once again and I'm not just a piece of meat. There were times when I was intimate with her and she'd just say, literally, just put it in me and let's go. There are times for a quickie, and I'm game for that, but there were times when I actually wanted to make it more than just going through the motions.
Quote: The reason (imo) that she is still signed up on the online dating sites is that she needs to prove to herself that she is desirable. She has convinced herself of all these awful things because of your behavior towards her--that she is not sexy or desirable or feminine, etc.
I agree 100% here. She has admitted to me that she has always liked to be the center of attention. That when she goes out dancing or with friends, even when I was with her, that she liked it when people paid attention to her, because that made her feel good about herself. I usually just got jealous because she wasn't flirting with me or something. Now I understand that she needs that and it doesn't hurt me or have anything to do with her love for me.
Quote: You can turn this around by giving her smaller versions of the things she was looking for while you were married.
I'm working on that a little bit each day or time that we are together. I've learned when I'm pushing things a bit, but I think she's beginning to learn that I'm not just pretending.
She told me the other day that she cannot be in a relationship where sex is non-existant. Right now she is making that happen, but it's because of things we both did in the past. I realize she's hurt, but I also realize that was a reminder that she still thinks this change might not last. But I'll keep working on my end because it's what I want, not what I'm thinking she wants.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
Quote: We need to work it out little by little. That fear and anger won't solve anything, and I just wish she could give herself the gift of forgiveness.
You have a very healthy attitude about the whole situation. Tell me, when are you planning your "confrontation" with her? I would be dreading that if I were you. Then again, it would be nice (for both of you) to finally have some kind of answer as to what is going to happen next.
Well, I'm trying not to look at it as a confrontation. I just need real resolution. I got very promising signs from her last week, and I think I need to strike while the iron is hot.
We have begun to tell each other what we want, and one of the things she said she wanted was space/time and so I wait for her to make contact when she feels comfortable. Which she has done. So probably the next time she calls me I will feel her and out go from there.
She often asks...why did she has to leave for me to change. I'm now thinking that I need to tell her I needed that shock to my heart. My shock to her heart is telling her I can't be "just friends" going forward, and she needs to decide if all the pain/hurt/resentment is worth that price.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
It sounds like you two have the communication aspect down, and that you are both pretty scared. She is scared of getting back together with you and having great sex for a couple of weeks/months and then everything sliding back downhill to where she was before. You are scared of her not giving you a chance to prove you have changed.
I hope your conversation with her (sorry I called it a confrontation - I lack vocabulary skills while breastfeeding) goes well for both of you.
One more idea I had - this is the romantic-wifey part of me talking - is what if you suggested a completely fresh start. Maybe a vow renewal, and a 2nd honeymoon. It could be with family and friends, or maybe just the two of you, but it would be like a new wedding date that you would celebrate as your anniversary from that time on. You could bury those first few painful years behind you (maybe even include that in the vows), and have a new date from which to start a brand new life together.
Plus, it sounds kinda romantic, doesn't it? Heck, you could even play it up with a proposal on bent knee and everything. Man, I would eat that up if I was her! You could even say you don't want to ML with her until after the "wedding" so you would have just this awesomely romantic wedding night. She'd jump you for sure right there and then.
(Oh, I am making myself swoon here. Somebody send my husband this message in an e-mail, please.)
