Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Answer to: "why didn't you hear it from ME?"

I was thinking this exact thing today Sandi.

I am not sure if it because we have tended to kiss their a$$ and they get accustomed to treating us like a servant, or if it is the silent contract / secretly trying to control wife with our passive aggressiveness...eventually that control is too much for them.

Hmm, I am sure there are tons of explanations.

Hi Sandi, thank you. That definitely clarifies a few things and gives examples. I get it. One specific example is the "I dont have to report to you attitude". Since we have kids, she will communicate, "I have an appointment". But if the kids have a practice or something and she doesn't have to report in, she may stay gone for that time, say 2 or 3 hours. I don't even think she us up to anything other than proving the point she doesn't have to report to anyone, but what is the appropriate response to that? Do I ignore it and show her I am giving her space and not checking up on her? Or do I say, if you are out having affar time, here are the divorce papers?

I appreciate you expressing your observation, Zephyr. I have to wonder if that's why the new stories sound so familiar, when actually......it's the dynamics that are the same.

I have just encouraged another poster to read the link in Cadet's initial welcome post about the boundaries cheat sheet. I think it would benefit you to use this application in your MR. It gives you a guide in how to state your boundaries, and explains the difference in boundaries and controlling. It explains how to enforce, and consequences.

Just a tiny taste to temp you to read more:


Here are some boundary setting statements and enforcing them.

Boundaries are for YOU and for your own well-being. Boundaries are not controlling at all. Simply statements of actions, comments, or behaviors by the other person that are not acceptable. It is signaling and communicating to the other person what's happening and what you will do if they persist in their actions.

To get you started, you might want to read Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Boundary: I will no longer let someone yell at me on the phone.

Enforcing a boundary: When someone starts yelling at me, I will calmly end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow when we can speak more calmly." "I don't like the names you are calling me. We can talk tomorrow." Then you hang up.. you don't wait for the person to say, "O.K., fine," nor do you get into a debate. You hang up. The person doesn't necessarily have to understand your position or agree with it. This isn't about communication right now. This is about your boundary. Two different things.

"I am not going to discuss or debate this with you."

"This is non-negotiable."

"I understand that you are upset. Perhaps we should discuss this later when we're both in a calmer state of mind?"

"I think I need to take a break from this conversation. I will talk to you some other time."

"Please don't speak to me like that. I really don't like it and it is hurtful."

"I've asked you not to speak to me like that. I love you very much but I don't let anybody speak to me like that."

"I don’t have to listen to this."

"I'm not obligated to justify myself to you."

"That is all I have to say on the matter."

“I’m not trying for one of us to be right or wrong, but for the relationship to be the best it could possibly be. I need XX."

“I’ve given this a lot of thought. I am learning more about myself and what I can and can’t do and what I need. And I need XX.”

“I understand you think it means I’m selfish. Still, I need XX.”

“I am not trying to be controlling. I am trying to be open and honest about how I feel. I need XX.”

“I’m not sure how to answer that. But what I do know is that things can’t go on this way. I need XX.”

“It is true that we don’t see things the same way. I wish we did, because this isn’t easy for me either. What I need is XX.”

"That's too big of a topic to tackle right now. We'll speak about it another time."

"I hear what you're saying. I'll consider it."

"You may do X. I have decided to do Y. There's nothing more to discuss."

"If you continue to yell/be abusive, I will hang up. I'm hanging up now."

"I know you're feeling low. I'm not in a position to be very supportive right now, however."

"I find that this conversation is pushing my buttons. I'm getting off the phone now. We can speak again later."

"Discussing this by phone seems to trigger a lot of emotion for us both. I will summarize things in an e-mail. We can resolve it that way."

"I'm not available by phone right now. Please e-mail me."

"I need to take a few days off from speaking about this. Let's talk on Friday."

"It is hard for me to keep my heart [or eyes, ears] open to you when you are yelling at me, and it is important to me to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you. If you cannot stop yelling at me, we will have to talk another time. I want to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you, and I do not know how to do that when you are yelling, so I am going to hang up and talk to you another time."

W's Dad called me today out of the blue. I haven't involved him, but he knows things now through third parties and wanted to hear my side. I said we are working through things and I want to save the marriage. I told him my versions of some of the events he asked about and tried to say that there were two different situations. There is the state of our marriage and then there is her EA. He interrupted and said there is NO excuse for an A. So to paint a more balanced picture than what he had heard, I tried to explain my part that contributed to the relationship being in a place where my W would be open to an A.

I basically found myself defending my wife because he wanted to not speak with her again until she "woke up and did the right thing". But I guess he can see too that whatever was going on in our relationship doesn't justify what she did. Plus we lived with them for a few weeks on vacation and he can see that her story of "the relationship was already over" doesn't jive with how we were together. It is clear that the EA WAS the catalyst for her asking for the separation and not wanting to reconcile.

I told W tonight that I talked to her Dad so she knows what is going on. I imagine the fallout will be a challenge. Of course her reaction is "I don't care what people think" and "They didn't see what I had to live with and all the nights I cried myself to sleep". Funny thing is, I cried sometimes too thinking SHE was the problem! I see that is was both of us now. But she NEVER told me she cried herself to sleep. She can't see that that was part of what she brought to the relationship. I guess that is part of this fog too. She is taking very little responsibility for the problems in our relationship and still rationalizing and justifying the EA. It is hard to watch sometimes. I think she herself doesn't believe it sometimes and the conflict inside her must be painful.

But I felt very detached about it. I didn't feel any need to "correct" her or offer any truth darts. I said my peace and I listened to her and I asked her if there was nothing else, I wanted to go watch TV. There was a goal met right there. I did not get invested in HER issue. How she felt about her Dad's conversation or the false version of our marital relationship is not my problem. I can offer tidbits when asked, but that is her work to do. I have my work to do.

Having a little trouble with knowing how to handle situations where I still get a little blindsided by spew. Could use advice about the appropriate response to the following. Most are re-writing of history, exaggerations, or things from the past. Do I just validate? I know I don't want to argue, but wonder if some of them require something else to make her think or to say a version of "that's not true".

• "We are too different"
• "We don't enjoy the same things"
• "You never loved me"
• "You never wanted the baby when I got pregnant"
• "What about all the holidays you ruined and I had to smile through my tears for the kids"
• "you were trying to meet women online years ago"
• "you poisoned our sex life"
• "I was just faking it to try and save my marriage"
• "I cried myself to sleep most nights" (but never told me)
• "It was 11 years of hell"
• "anything bad I did was just a reaction to you"
• "you are not taking responsibility that YOU destroyed our marriage, not the affair"
• "You still haven't changed"
• "Just ask my friend. She can tell you how many years I have wanted a divorce"
• "I fell in love the the person you sold yourself to me as. You are not that person. You don't understand women"
• "I am the real victim here. Just look at how you reacted to my supposed affair by snooping, telling people, etc."

Those examples are bait. You might as well gobble the hook, too, b/c it will pull you into a R talk.......and probably end in a fight.

You can't control what she chooses to believe (especially a WW). The best thing to do is say nothing at all and leave her with her thoughts. Validation is okay, if you are good at it. Otherwise, you'll still get pulled into a R talk.

Trying to find out if there is anything still going on and working on positive experiences with her while GAL.

We discussed the separation agreement today and talked about selling the house. She seems to think I am only thinking of myself again by suggesting we sell the house and put our daughter through joint custody. She was wanting to sell the idea of staying in the same house, but being able to have "separate lives" (aka I get to see my OM!). Funny how it gets twisted that *I* am the selfish one instead of making a reasonable boundary.

How is two parents living together and going out on separate dates a good example of what a relationship should be like for our D? Seems a lot like swinging or an open relationship! (except for the part where I at least get to have sex with my W ;))

This is a key crossroads as to how I handle this. Not sure to just keep working the plan to try and rebuild the connection while GAL, etc, or to say, "No, it is time to sign the papers and put the house up for sale". Let's really see what divorce is going to be.

I used the rest of our talk to really find out about one of her beliefs. She shared a lot about her feelings of the love she wanted and I validated her feelings and worked on the spiritual, deep core belief part of our connection. It was a good talk and an example of "what's working". Yet I can't help but wonder if my own bomb drop is the answer. I would have to be willing to actually face that path though, not just do it to try and get a certain outcome. Basically throw in the towel and move on to get my own life, put her behind me, and not look for her to change her mind, but be open to stop the process if she did.

I have to be firm on my boundaries. I won't live in what is basically an open marriage or in-house divorce. I am not going to nice her to death hoping to outlast the EA if she is still involved in that. I know she is hoping she gets to pursue that, which is just as bad. I talked to a real-estate agent.