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I guess W will take off the rings for good when she is ready to publicize the fact that our M is over.

Our conversations tonight were exclusively about the kids esp S11 as I had been to parents evening. Conversations felt cold.

W is away for the weekend at her sisters place Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon. Our nephew is having an 18th Birthday party.

At least she asked me to sign his card.

Is, how does thinking about this help Is?

No expectations.

Mate, you are still very focused on her and what she's thinking. And the bread crumbs with the birthday card? Please re evaluate. You can do this.

Sadly, the crumb throwing will continue until you put your foot down and say 'enough'. That's when your W will start taking you seriously.

The ring thing is for effect. I took mine off, not because I didn't love her etc., because I didn't want to be associated with all the abuse that was coming out of her mouth. The lying, changing our marriage memories in to something they weren't, the constant spewing etc. I suppose I was making a point as well. In the end, she didn't notice at the time as she was so far in to the fog.

Less worrying about your W and more concentrating on yourself.

Conversation with W this morning before she left for work was again about the kids and forthcoming events - felt warmer than yesterday.

W is away for the weekend so time for me to concentrate on me and the kids.

I have a busy schedule once 5pm comes round. Sleepovers, Gym time, taking S8 to sleepover at National Space centre (yes the UK has one!) plus planning to go bike riding with the boys on Sunday Morning.

W was interested in joining us for the bike ride but I said we would probably go out in the morning before she was back from her sisters.

Things are pleasant enough - no anger, no spewing, just W and Me wanting to be nice to each other in this strange dynamic.

My biggest problem is trying to sleep well and suppressing the anxiety. Also my appetite is way down. I have to force myself to eat.

I can feel adrenaline and cortisol surging through my body.
Ive lost 7 pounds and am starting to look underweight.. I am 150 pounds (10st10lbs) which is lower than when we got married.

Im taking Nyttol at night but I wake up around 3-4am and the rest of the night is broken. Im up at 6.

This time around things feel worse even though our R is better than it was 4 years ago. I have changed a lot for the better over those 4 years (though not enough I guess).

Its harder to DB this time round as I have already done most of what I can do. I have to concentrate on my R with the boys (it always suffers when the marriage is going downhill). I must appear more confident and show and feel total self respect. I must convey to W a confident MAN who she respects and wants back or is willing to at least go to MC.

Time is a healer, patience is needed but I also need to prepare for the worst. I'm dreading the next R as I think she will not agree to MC until after we have separated.

This is as far as it got 4 years ago. We agreed to separate, I was looking for a place but then she backed down on the brink.

This time she thinks that everything has been done by her to save the M. She has tried and tried and there is no going back. I think we have tried everything except MC.

MC is probably my last hope

Sleep depravation and anxiety are normal effects, as is weight loss and appetite loss. It's your body coping with the stress of the situation, preventing you from having more serious health problems.

Don't worry about how she feels you've changed. How do you feel you've changed? Do you feel better about yourself now than four years ago?

Slow down a bit and calm down. Exercise really helped me through the worst (so far!). While GAL is important, it doesn't mean you have to hare about all over doing things. It could be as simple as reading a book alone or just listening to music. It's about being happy with who you are right now. That's what you need to concentrate on right now.

Thanks Huddy - I need the reassurance yr posts bring.

Sometimes just getting stuff down on the Forum helps ease the anxiety.

Need a chill pill I will keep exercising, bike rides and running and a few weights.
For GAL, I was out Wednesday in London and tonight with lads from cycling club for beer and curry. Next week I am working away Mon Pm to Wed PM. The work will involve colleagues who I dont see often so that will be good.

For sure I feel better about myself than 4 years ago. I have Got a Life, physically fit and I really learnt to support W. She had a lot of trouble at work with junior staff - extending over the full 4 years and I listened, and listened and validated and knew not to intefer or try to fix the problems. I thought she counted on me as a rock of support. NB her work problems faded earlier this year.

So I will only see W on Sunday afternoon/evening and then Wed Evening. It gives her space and time.

Just a small snippet of positivity this afternoon.

W who is away for the weekend, rang me to say she had arranged for another Dad to drop S8 back at our house after his football training so I could go out a little earlier with my friends with a few beers and a curry. She later texted me to ask if I wanted the child minder to come a little earlier as well - something I had already arranged.

Its shows thoughtfulness and her caring nature.

It raises my spirits a little and will help me sleep tonight. BUT I remain grounded and know that in reality it means little.

Is

Hate to be the harbinger of doom mate and I don't want to be Mr Buzz Kill but that sounds very much like breadcrumbs to me mate. You still need to detach. She's temp checking you buddy and the more you lap up the crumbs the more she will play you. She isn't experiencing much in the way of loss now is she?

NDY - I agree it is breadcrumbs and I recognise it for what it is.

Its just that W is away for two nights: A chance to get away from the tension in the house and relax with family but instead in busy organising my childcare arrangements for tonights GAL.

small steps