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Lisa,

Sorry you have found yourself here. It really is a (censored) place to be in, but this forum is a lifesaver.

Unfortunately, things will probably get worse before they get better with with your M and H. The good news is that things can start improving for you now if your put your focus on you and your S.

Just a few things. All cheaters lie, I would believe nothing your H is saying right now and only believe half of his actions. My H proceeded to lie to my face for 5 months telling me he had ended A. Not just little white lies, but elaborate made up stories. They will do anything to protect their fantasy when they are in the middle of their A. As are like drugs to an addict, so it will likely take him sime time to come out of his fog. Until he fully decides to stop A, be transparent, and have NC, there is little work you can do on your M. I am actually surprised that your MC will even work with you both if your H is still in A. Do they know?

The best thing I think you can do right now is start working on you by GAL, improving the issues you brought to M, focusing on your S. Your H needs to realize what he stands to lose if he continues A. You have been fired as his W as long as he continues what he is doing. I would definitely set boundary that you will not live on open marriage and you will not be his back up plan. I would not worry about playing the part of his wife right now. Let him figure out his own meals, laundry, etc. that does not mean be angry or rude. If you make a meal and he is home just act normal, but don't worry about texting if he will be home for dinner. Just start treating him as a neighbor or friend that is staying with you. Sandi!s rules are a good guideline for how to interact with your H right now. Since you are still living together and in same bedroom and there us active A, emotionally this is not going to be easy. I would read the detachment thread daily. This was the hardest part for me in my sitch.

The other thing I would do is talk to an L to get some initial advice about finances and D if it gets to that point, especially since your H lost his job. This this does not mean you want to D, but just a matter of informing yourself. I found out that if my H loses his job for any reason, including A (I am in a no fault state), I would have to pay him Maintainence. Most will give a free consultation. I think it will help you feel a little more empowered with the situation.

Can you tell us more about you M history? Has your H said why he sought out A? There have to be some things that were not going great. No M is perfect and we all have things to work on. This will help give you some direction on things to start working on with you.

Hang in there!

Hi Lisa, I missed your other question of how to interact with him.

The most important idea to get your head around is that he is an addict. Imagine that instead of telling you he wasn't sure he wanted to be M and being in an A- imagine he was addicted to painkillers. Looking at it this way is tremendously useful.

For one thing, it is so much less personal. If it was painkillers, you wouldn't feel like it was a comparison between who was a better woman for him, you or the pills. It would be obvious you are his W, those are his escape. If nothing else I hope you realize that OW is nothing more than those pills, she is not your competition, she is nothing. The fact that he might do things with her or say things to her that should normally be reserved for a M can be very hurtful, but it's all fantasy that won't last.

So to answer the question of what to do, it helps to think about what NOT to do. Sandi's rules are all spot on. But in thinking about handling addicts, the number one mistake that people make is trying to control the addict's behavior. Twisting their lives around trying to get the addict to get and stay clean. Ultimatums. Hiding pills. Confrontations. Shaming. Guilt. Threats. Fights. Interventions. Heart to hearts.

STOP! I shudder to think about it. None of this works. All it does is empowers the addict to control YOU. You're letting the addiction become the center of both of your lives. And the more emotionally twined you become with the addiction, the more powerful the addiction can grow, because even when you think you are doling out 'consequences', the reality is that the only true consequence that you can dole out is that of emotionally detaching and moving forward. And that is the one thing that can't happen when you're hell bent on changing someone else's behavior.

From that view it's pretty clear why detaching and moving forward are the right choices. You go through the grieving process for the loss of the relationship you had (regardless of the future there is no doubt about the loss you have incurred). You learn to take care of yourself, and provide the emotional nourishment that you wished he would've provided. You GAL to find alternative ways to meet your emotional needs. You develop a good support group to give you the strength to become the person you want to be. You learn all about boundaries, how to be your best self and avoid being a victim or enabler, without becoming a controller either.

The goal is simple- grieve your lost M, and find a way to be appreciative with the life you have and the person you are. This road can be very long. God doesn't want you to wait for 2 years or 10 years to be filled with his spirit and compassion. Regardless of what WAH does, I think you look for ways to find yourself and your happiness in the midst of this crisis, all while protecting yourself from his destructive behavior.

Most LBS's in your spot will walk at some point. They will take his behavior personally, the hurt turns into anger, and they leave the M because they deserve better. I lean towards the most pro-M stance on this forum, but even I acknowledge that after a number of years of continued A's there might come a time when the boundary is a D sought by you on your end. But that is so far away from where you are you don't need to think about that by now. That would not be a decision to make while you're emotional, depressed, hurt, or angry. That would be one made once you've grieved the loss of your M, you've spent years rebuilding your life, you've made peace and have compassion for WAH, and it's just clear that there's nothing left to stand for.

Until then you must let go of your expectations of what you want from your M. Yes, you want more. You want a committed H, you want a monogamous R, you want a healthy and intimate emotional and physical connection, you want a mature and responsible partner...none of this is happening. But that's all about what you want. God has given you something different. God wants you to serve him, and have faith in him.

I would encourage you to search ... He does a 3 part series, about an hour total, that is very instructive.

All in all, let go of your H's behavior and your expectations. GAL and selfcare is so important because as you find ways to meet your emotional needs elsewhere you'll suffer much less and avoid co-dependency with an addict. And above all, spend time being appreciative for what God has given you. The mantra I used is this: If despite everything God has given me- a place to live, food to eat, loving children, a good job, amazing friends, and many gifts to share with the world- If I still look up at the sky and shout at God, telling him I can't possibly be satisfied and I think it's all garbage without the M I deserve- If I'm THAT entitled, selfish, and unappreciative- well, I don't think one woman will change how I feel.

Ladies,

I agree with Azz. Words are words and actions talk louder. Start shifting your focus NOW.

What I will never get my head around is why people continue to have talks, sleep in the same bed and go to counselling when they know full well the OP is still there.

What self respecting person accepts a txt from their S saying they are with OP and will be home shortly. WTF?

As a H I can tell you that while you tolerate it my respect for you is zero and while I see you are not going anywhere I have this feeling of having you under control, safe so why change?

We have been told that the A has to run its course until it fizzles out and in the meantime the S is in cuckoo land. So we lower our standards, respect, dignity hoping to succeed as plan B since plan A might fizzle out?

Isnt it better to stop all contacts and talks until the A is over and proven as much as it can and then work from there? If we are deliberately going to stick our heads in the sand, should we not do it to concentrate on ourselves rather than remember everytime the S gets into the master bed he has come from someone elses?

I really think that dropping the OP is the first and only option possible to start negotiations. Here is where the line needs to be drawn before the trench warfare begins.

Those of you old enough will remember when as kids we went one step too far we got an ass whooping. Now there are special places and time outs. WTF Is that. In my days a special place was a coma and we never had time outs just got knocked out.

May have been harsher but we did pretty well. So why not give your S an emotional ass whooping back to reality. If they want to talk then drop the b** faster than a bad habit. Otherwise GTFO and get your s**t together.

Another point, as a H, If I am having an A and your GAL, MO etc is spending more time with the kids, crockery class or walking the dog... keep it up, you may bore me back to reality. What works is cleavage, tight, short clothes and going out somewhere you can be a bad girl or boy. They need to feel their Plan B is under threat.

I am not saying just do this but think about it... when we see our Ss dress up smelling and looking good and not going to a readers digest meeting how do we feel? As we say here... a thief thinks everyone steals.

I know it probably sounds controversial but I have seen mates wake up from their limbo the moment they saw someone elses's bed may be kept warm with their S while they were acting the player. Its a macho thing that shakes us to the core.

Don't know your take on this.

Chin up anyway and i really hope things improve.

You don't deserve this.

Smile

Thank you so much for the replies. I will write more soon laying out more details of our marriage and how we've gotten to where we are, but I need immediate help with this particular matter today.

It's obvious (I think it is, anyway) that given H's behavior last night, I need to take some sort of stand. I am not in an open marriage, I do not condone my husband having a girlfriend, and I won't have it.

My question is, though, given our circumstances (no job, very little money, practical matters of almost certainly having to ready the house for sale, etc.), do I initiate a separation or do I handle it in some other kind of boundary? Do I ask him to leave the house, or is it enough to put him in the guest room?

Also, we have not really spoken yet today other than a tentative "good morning". My usual thing would be to be down there, follow him around knowing that something big happened that we need to discuss, and then try to discuss everything rationally.

I have done none of that. I got up early, went down to the basement and worked out for over an hour, then came directly upstairs and showered. I'm still upstairs getting dressed and have no idea what to do next.

I was going to grab some books and my iPad and just take off for a few hours, both to leave him wondering but also to keep myself from being myself at home, and to give myself some time to read, think and pray.

But at some point today we are obviously going to have to talk. And my guess is that he has come to some kind of conclusion about separating, or possibly even full-fledged divorce, I don't know. I don't know if it's a matter of he who speaks last loses or what.

I don't know what to do. I literally can't breathe. I cannot believe this is the man I've been with for 25 years.

Meant to also say, I don't know whether I'd be shooting myself in the foot by suggesting alternative arrangements first. I'm so guilty of guessing what he's thinking and being wrong. But I can't imagine I'm getting this one wrong.

Why do you feel something needs to be done today? I truly feel trying to change external circumstances so soon is reactive. Is this from God, or is this from YOU? How can you know?

I strongly disagree with Maximus. Everything he suggested was attempting to control WAH.

I DO agree with Azz and others discussing boundaries. I just don't think today's the day it has to happen, because if you take immediate action it is likely to cause more harm than good.

When you think you can't go on like this another day- that's a good indicator you're in no spot to make life changing decisions.

Lisa - Id let your emotions cool down before kicking him out of the house. There's a LOT swirling right now and so any major decisions should be based on logic and reason. Not emotion.

But I do think it's reasonable to kick him from MBR to give yourself space.

I agree with Azzork - you're super super emotional right now and any human being would be. I think the decisions that 'stick' are the ones that are made in the cold light of day.

Can you go on vacation for a while? Stay with friends? I think if that means using some savings, then go do it. This is serious and you deserve to do what you need to do to take the time you need.

And yes - kicking him out from the marital bed until he stops the affair is the right thing to do, in my opinion.

I hate to mention this. I know it might be upsetting for you. But do you think you might need to get an STD test?

Hi Lisa,

I would suggest you Do go out to disconnect, do not guess or assume anything that concerns his thoughts you just dont know what they are. Finally, I would not initiate r talks.

On these ocassions I always wondered if the S regretted hurting the LBS, getting caught, having an A or a mix of these.

Whatever the reason, my ideals are pretty clear, before any talks drop the OW. Until then not interested. I do not understand how 2 people can discuss anything about an R between them when there are 3 in that R. One of you needs to be out of the equation.

I am going to have to go the way of not making rash decisions while I am emotional. I recognize in myself the flipflopping of feeling like something needs to be done to force a reaction, and then feeling like I need to not panic and try to think rationally.

I also have to remember that I have observed almost continual flipflopping by my H these past weeks. I truly think he is messed up beyond words, and I DO think he is addicted to this woman. On several different occasions during our talks, he has continually admitted, more and more, that he just doesn't see things working out with her in the end. He has said there are things about her that concern him, like the fact that she doesn't ask much about his life or how things are going. That she seems pretty self-involved and he knows being with her means hitching himself to HER wagon - which doesn't fit his alpha guy personality at all. There are just so very many things that make them completely wrong for each other, and when away from her he is the first one to admit to them, more and more every day.

But he gets around her and he is just smitten. He SO wants it to be his new lifestyle. He completely changes, and becomes an [censored] to everyone else he loves. To me it is so classic MLC, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

Bottom line is, though - he is like a piece of driftwood. He is over here, over there, just can't make a decision. To him, he believes staying with me in our marriage would be the "easy route" and the comfortable route, and that he would be doing so strictly out of sense of responsibility and obligation.

I feel like my battle is less about the OW and more about showing him that our marriage could be SO much better. But given my current position, I have no idea at all how to do that and not lose him in the meantime to someone 20 years younger with a more shallowly appealing lifestyle.