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Thank you so much Job for all your advice. Now it makes complete sense why he made such a production of showing the number on his phone. And when you read this, you will see you were right!

H definitely thinks I have something going on. Last night I stepped out to run a few errands. H said what time he was going to be home but I was not not back at that time. H had texted me but I left my phone at home. So kids answered that I was out and said where I went. When I returned he semi-jokingly asked where I was even though he had already found out from kids. We bantered a bit but I could tell that he really did want to know where I went. He was testing my honesty as afterwards he said he was close to the place kids said I was. He said he even looked there for me! (This would be the most unglamorous A EVER as I was in running shorts with my hair in a sloppy pony tail; plus I was gone for about an hour and 15 minutes!) Interesting that he is now worried about my whereabouts.

Today in a roundabout way H mentioned that he is very straight laced and has never crossed any lines. He was quite firm in saying this. He said I may not believe him but he affirmed again it is true.

I have no issue with showing him my phone. The only thing I am hiding is the info. on this forum. I do get nervous that I forgot to clear the history or that I left a post open. I will show my phone too.

Now that I hear your advice, Job, it makes so much sense to thank him for showing phone and for compliments. I need to see the good and praise it.

When I see progress it reminds me of how things used to be. I need to stop going there and instead focus on the good.

Hi HaWho, if you have an iphone you can browse incognito and not have to worry about remembering each time....

Thanks Sotto-good reminder.

So just updates:

I continue to feel more and more energy. I feel very close to my old self in this area. I cannot believe how fatigued I was these last few years. Also, strange aches I had in depression are gone. Don't know exactly when they disappeared but good riddance.

H seems very lucid these days. He is very aware of what is going on in kids' lives. He notices more of what is going on around him. A friend's son broke the same are for the third time and H was truly sympathetic. He saw I had a burn on my hand and told me to take care of it so it would heal properly.

These last two days he has a glimmer to his eyes again. He is very positive-like his old self. Kids raise an issue and he is able to guide them through decision making process.

He mentioned that he has no interest in initiating contact with old MLC friend. Said he no longer wants to have drinks or go out with him anymore! Maybe I should have validated here but it felt like it would come off like I was his parent. Did not want to seem like I was patting him on the head. In hindsight, wish I had validated given older conversations about this guy.

In height of fog, before H went out with this MLC friend I calmly told him that I thought this guy was not cut from the same cloth as H. (MLC friend has a history of being financially shady and treats his girlfriends like they are disposable.) Rather than tearing down MLC friend I Iifted H above him. Back then his ears perked but he still went out with MLC "friend." Hopefully he told me he does not contact him anymore to let me know he has outgrown MLC companion for good. Fingers crossed here...

H still takes a lot of time to himself. The other day, for first time, he invited me out on one of his walks but told me he may not talk too much as he needs this time to clear his mind and focus. I said I did not need to come if he preferred the solitude. He insisted I come but again said there would be much silence. We took a long walk. I stayed quiet and H chatted the WHOLE time.

Months ago, we each happened to be taking a walk on the beach but did not plan this. We were barely speaking then yet living in the same house. I saw H in front of me but walking the other way. I know he saw me but turned around and pretended he did not. (He had not walked far enough to turn around the other way.) I said hi when he entered his car in the parking lot and I was passing him. He said hi back and off we drove. Those were strange days. Reminds me of the days I left before he came in the door.

Progress is inching forward as the other night he invited me to walk this very same beach.

It's been a few days since I've posted.

I have been super busy at work. Turns out the guy I am working for is a very difficult man with whom to work with, never mind work for. This is new territory for me as I have always had very good relationships with all my managers. A few months ago I started to get the read that he is quite insecure/easily threatened by new ideas/approaches and then counters with blatant passive aggressiveness. And to boot, he has completely outdated views of women! Think Mad Men in the early episodes. Work environment deteriorated to the point that I dreaded going to work, wasn't sleeping, cringed at the sight of him and sound of his voice, etc.

Anyway, ended up doing db at work with manager! I went as dark as you can with your boss without being insubordinate. Then I went in and talked to upper management about it. This is a HUGE 180 for me as I never would have done this in the past. I have always had a fear of being fired, even though I never have been. So I was really scared until I got really mad. There just came this point where it hit me how wrong it was that he could treat someone like this at work. I have worked for this company for a few years now and yet he was treating me with less respect than the unpaid interns.

Long story short, I took time and thought about my boundaries and about what I needed to make this work. Then I went in and talked to upper management and they backed me! They told me I am valued and thanked me for my work and met all my requests. They also asked me to document everything with manager. I was so worried about talking to them but it became clear this was not new info. to them!

Meanwhile H seems to have ducked into some new tunnel. On Friday we had to take one of my sons somewhere w/his friends. H did compliment me on how I looked and later in the night he thanked me for always being good to him when it came to certain things that were important to him. But H was eerily aloof and quiet. The problem is when I am not with him I am very good at not spinning. I have really learned a lot here.

But he was so zoned out, my mind went off on this crazy trajectory: he was going to bomb me again, he wants out of this M, he does not want me, etc. It came to the point where I was just paralyzed with fear that this was all going to start from BD again. I realize I have a ton of work to do in this area.

Then out of the blue he started to talk and childhood stories came out of him like they were being printed from a computer. Many of them I knew, but more detail was added. Many stories I did not know. He told me I was a very good mother as he told dysfunctional stories of his own mother. He had such sadness about him, it was heartbreaking. It was hard to listen to it all. I felt so worn out just by hearing it.

The next day he was solo the whole day. Despite it being a weekend day he kept to himself all day pretty much. We had made plans and he politely blew those off. It was clear he didn't really want to talk with or see me.

I was frustrated by it as he had a long peekout this past week and a half so the snap back to withdrawal was hard. He's always been a distancer but what hit me hard was that we made these plans w/kids together and then he bails but says he will come and relieve me for a while. He kept saying he would relieve me and I didn't need relieving, I needed and wanted some companionship.

Hard as it was I took the high ground, let him "relieve me" and then went off by myself for a bit. He kept to himself all evening too.

I have a few slow days this week so I went out and bought skates and then went rollerblading! I had so much fun. I haven't done that in a long time-since I was in my early twenties!

As I was rolling along it struck me that I liked myself more when I was in my twenties than I like who I have been these last few years. This made me pretty sad.

I've been knocked around these last few years and now that I've survived it all, I know I have to use these experiences to my advantage.

In my twenties I had such a vision of what my life would be like. So much of that came to fruition-my wonderful family chief among them. But at that young age you can't know the hits you're going to take. It was easy to be happier with myself then.

I want to get back to that happy at the core person. I know the experiences of these last few years can actually help me in this area. There's a wisdom/big picture mentality that I can have internally and that I can share with my kids.

Sounds to me like you have the right attitude. The main focus should be on making the changes for you, not for anyone else. The chance that they notice and like those changes is just an added benefit.

I did the same, looking back on my past years, figured out when I was happiest and why, and made those changes. For me it was my early 30's. I was confident, independent and successful at work. Spending time with friends and pampering myself was a priority. I lost a lot of that with H and S, but since I have put those things back into my life, I am feeling back like myself again.

Keep that focus going!

"Celebrated" 15th anniversary a few days ago. It was a strange day all around. A year ago, H had forgotten 14th anniversary and when I suggested going out to dinner the day of, he monstered at me in front of the kids. I was rounding out the last few months in my own multi-year depression and didn't really know what to make of the monstering. Ignorant days where I knew nothing of MLC.

I had a small gift for H and planned to bake something simple for him as he is a foodie. The dessert was something quick that, if he remembered anniversary I could whip up. When he came to me months ago and decided he wanted to work on R, I said I wanted to do something for our anniversary this year, just something simple.

Morning of, it seemed he had forgotten. Then mid-day he asked if we could all go to dinner to celebrate the anniversary. I said yes. When I came home there were flowers and I thanked him. He insisted I had forgotten as I said nothing about it in the am. (He certainly could have said something first, too, and given what happened on anniversary last year, I really wasn't enthusiastic about initiating celebration.) I told him I did not forget but also did not remind him of last year. He seemed hurt like I really did forget. I tried to re-assure him again. When I presented gift he believed me.

Baked him a dessert and gave him a gift. It all felt very awkward-like going through the motions. Could not help but think of happiness we felt 15 years ago and the pain of today. 15 years ago, never would I have imagined my seemingly stable H spinning in MLC. Oi!

As H ate dessert he made a passive aggressive shot that I had barely done any baking the last 10 years. I felt myself just drift away. I said nothing but the stiffening of my demeanor said it all. He tried to butter me up by initiating other unrelated conversations. I went though the motions as one kid was present but mentally I was checked out. And he knew it.

A few months ago when we discussed what we needed in R, I told him I wanted to be done bringing up past wrongs. We each have axes to grind with each other. Raising kids took a toll on our M. By any normal standard he did not help as much as he should have. He feels I should have taken better care of him vs. focusing on kids. I countered that if he had helped me more I would have doted on him more. And around and around we went. I am done discussing it. It is finished and we are at a different point now. There are no diapers to change, baths to give, etc. I have reconciled that he disappointed me in those years. I did what I needed to do to raise my kids and in my mind I distanced from him in those years. I had to in order to survive the lack of help. I have also stepped back enough to see that I think he wanted mothering due to childhood issues and I wanted help--not another child to rear. Time to live with the disappointments of the past and leave them there. Garden variety marital problems...

Anyway, I pull away, like old self. Next what would follow is we would ignore each other for a week or so until I brokered peace. (I would not sleep, have anger build and he would go on as nothing happened.) I gave up trying to tell him how I felt because he was always right, never apologized and then more hostility ensues. And around we went there, too. I decide to take dog out for a walk. I am so bored by this old dance and yet see no way around it. I know if I address it, he will never admit fault and yet if I don't address it resentment builds in me, hence more distancing.

As I head out, he says he'd like to come to. I don't want him along. I am so bored and tired by old passive aggressive behavior. This is a 180 for him as he usually just distances. So I do a 180 and say yes. Old me would have ignored him, turning up the music and taking my steps in the dance.

We walk and he apologizes!!! I think this is the 3rd time in 20 years I have heard those words. I listen. He says it was a joke. I do not believe it (I think it is his anger at not being mothered by his own mother and by me in those years). I say thank you for apologizing and tell him I want there to be kind words between us. He says I can make passive aggressive shots too. I get down in the mud and say I have not made any such shots since we decided to try to work in R. He is forced to agree. He says we need to not ignore each other over this. I peck him on cheek and say: let's bury it.

We do and that's what makes it special. Changing our old dysfunctional patterns is the best gift we can give each other. My marriage is not where I hoped it would be 15 years ago. But, 7 months ago, I did not even expect we'd be talking! So, sadly but realistically, it is all where it should be given the circumstances.

I'd say that's a nice step and happy anniversary.

But I'd also challenge this: "Had to"? Why was that your ONLY option?

I had a career, two kids, a wife, a cat and two dogs, a house and ailing grandparents to help take care of (from a distance admittedly). And along the way I also made time for being active in my church and kids schools and activities and went to school. I never forgot my starter wife in the 20 years we were married. I didn't neglect her either. If anything, I neglected my friends, but saw that as part of the package.

I'm not suggesting anyone do the same, but I am challenging the idea that your only option was to distance.

What you describe is one of the hardest to come back from - years of distancing. I'll be honest - MLC or not, your H may honestly feel "abandoned" by you as you say you feel from him. What you describe is a long standing set of differences and ways of dealing with feelings of hurt.

How to fix it is really the question. I think you are off to a great start, but I think more is needed. I think your method of saying only kind words to each other is a great start. I also think you won't be able to have expectations of zero-day changes. Undoing those long-standing cycles of hurt and reaction and distance won't be easy for either of you.

I know there is more to it. I am not taking sides. I am only interested in helping you to identify strategies to help you get the marriage with your H back to what you likely both want it to be. And I think it starts with challenging that notion of "had to".

You cannot change him, but you can change you. It seems appropriate to quote Ghandi, "Be the change you want to see." The corollary to that is that you should not expect others to change immediately. Others changes lag behind yours. And I think you might see that your H is trying to change to. Albeit in a more destructive way. But regardless what happens with your marriage, you need to change the destructive "garden variety" marital problem behaviors. For this relationship or any other.

Peace,
AJ

I love how you both took steps to change the outcome. That is a really good thing. I am so glad the day turned out well, Happy Anniversary

What you wrote, about the kids and your marriage....it seems the same story over and over....is that what happens?? We get married, love each other so much. We have a child, which is an overwhelming shift in day to day life, the wife needs help, the husband feels ignored, resentments build.....you could have written my story. I wonder in our cases, if our H need that mothering, see it going to our children, and can't cope with that?

But like you said, the children are older, diaper days are over, time to focus on making the marriage the priority. You sound good, stay strong.

Happy Anniversary, its so nice to hear that it was different from last year.

I dont have any advice because I don't feel I am in a position to give any, you are further along the path than me.

My story is a bit different from yours but a lot of the things you wrote did feel similar. My h mother smothered him and so he tends to not get close to anyone. His career choices meant him being away from home a lot and while that suited him, when he was at home I became jealous of his time and resentful when he gave it to other things. I see now that I should have been stronger and more forceful in telling him how unhappy I was and leaving me to raise our (challenging) children made me feel abandoned. I became needy and desperate for attention and that made everything worse. In saying that, I am not sure it would have had much impact on his decisions as his issues have not been resolved within him yet.

I agree with AJM, you had problems within your m before the MLC happened, so unless you address them and make peace with the past then you may carry them through to the future. Your h needs to address his own issues too and I wonder if he has acknowledge that he does have them yet, or if he is still wandering around MLC land thinking he is not the problem.

HaWho, I think your amazing; to have your h home and be working on your m takes great strength, patience and commitment. Keep moving forwards and working on yourself, your doing great.