Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers LBS becomes the WS. The price of peace.

Only if you are limerent!

Otherwise hand it to W.

I am going to digest your post. Packed is benign, like rubber bands on top of each other in a ball. Otherwise diffuse and you can have secondaries. Squamous, flat and breaks up.

V

I was. I'm better now

Ahh, the siren song of a WW. Yes, true love it must be. My WW is on at least her 3rd A, and of course THIS one is true love. She has no doubts. Now let's forget that she had no doubts about the first two OM either, and for that matter, no doubts about me when we first married over 18 years ago. But no, THIS one is different. They've known each other a grand total of around 9 months, but no, this guy is DIFFERENT from all the others. You can't reason with them - logic makes no sense. Almost every A is going to burn out at some point. It's just a matter of when and what they do after the butterflies leave their stomach for good. The smart ones will recognize their mistake but many, like my own WW I believe, will convince themselves that maybe it wasn't true love after all, and go searching for the next fantasy. It's all very sad, but nothing much you can do about it until they realize that the problem lies in themselves and seek help to fix it.

hey V, responding here now from old thread.
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I can see how you avoided your 9 year old issue for so long. Largely you medicated it.

That I did. After I returned to Uni I effectively medicated, distracting myself through study.

You or your body were smart enough probably subconsciously embedded to stay just this side of serious damage. I think no matter what your mind wasn't going to let your body be damaged to permanent addiction. Probably as a result of you surviving and your tumour didn't. There is a sense in which having survived a major life illness, self protection arises for the rest of your life.

The subconscious has acquired belief patterns which state go no further, there will be damage, it knows because of your history. At those times the subconscious stops drama and damage. You go to the brink and no further, Childhood or even later clinical damage does that, it's been studied for a long time. There is also a physiological tolerance mechanism in play, to the body's own opiates and pain.

Fight for survival physiological gives children 'old' souls and a strength beyond their biological age. In that sense the issue isn't the illness itself but the location of the illness and the physical markers. My friend has a scar across her chest, there was a compact tumour across her diaphragm. That scar is her badge of courage, she had her children call it 'smiley' scar . Sadly a scar from a brain tumour has a different sense to others which get in the way of the pride of survival, none the less that survival is still there.


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Frankly I think Py you are lucky to only be in the IC chair. Years of self abuse can leave enormous Mental damage, hallucinations and paranoia. You are lucky, young man, (wags head sagely) to be a young father in recovery.

I am definitely lucky. Especially mucking around with huge doses of hallucinogens. In the extreme case I know a Japanese guy who last I heard couldn't tie his shoelaces anymore - after a single episode. My STX BIL is now psychotic after a brief stint, etc, etc. But in terms of the drug ab"use" I think I am way past recovery. Dealing with the underlying issues that were medicated - well - that is the theme of 2015.

I am not so sure. With compact tumours, especially large ones the body 'misses' the tumour, it hasn't recognised the tumour as damage, it's integrated and even has its own blood supply and often nerves, sometimes they have odd twists, like teeth or hair. The body has adapted to the compact tumour living within it, it is self, and even white blood cell counts are normal. The body isn't trying to destroy the tumour.

The conscious mind knows that a tumour is damaging but the subconscious mind hasn't that knowledge. Neither has the body that knowledge. There is loss and grief for the tumour within the body and surgery itself is traumatic. To a sense we replicate what we are comfortable with and thence the body can replace the effect of the tumour and the body's opiates. It's familiarity seeking replication with acting out and artifice to return to the comfort zone.

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Did the tumour operation cause the dancing eye to stop dancing? Has the scar faded?

The nastagmas only occurs at the extremes of looking left or right. But no, it is still there.

And the tumour has gone completely? So this is residual damaging.

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Can I ask did your parents ever help you or did you have counselling for this?

My parents - yes, they "helped". But counselling no. I masked it well and appeared at least to be over it I guess.

There is the sense here in which there is a concentration on the physiological illness. It's hurtful to be ill and parents struggle with it. They want it to be over. Too little attention after intense illness is damaging, it's like turning off a tap, it tells a child this is over, the physiological part. It isn't over, it's just beginning. It's a perceptual filter that it's finished but there is a loss of a physiological part and a visible scar that permanently announces the losses.

It's inescapable because of the scars visibility, which is fine if it's smiley scar, a badge of courage, but no so much if it's defined as damaging in the eyes of others. It denies the realty of a serious battle won and for survival. To a large extent the true bravery of your battle for survival is subject to public denial. I think it isn't the illness that is the issue but the failure of the conversion of that illness to acknowledgement of bravery and survival. It denies the experience of the child when it needs to be validated.

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Bullying is sadly too common in schools, that is the responsibility of adults, a nominated school adult to check in. I hope it's mandatory now in schools as it is in the UK.

Yeah - I worry for my kids. Many initiatives going on to stop bullying not only in schools, but also the workplace.

Bullying is beyond denial. This is saying there is ostracism and the battle was not worthy. Truly awful for that 9 year old who has little ability to cope.

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This nine year point is vital, at the time you most needed acceptance, other kids saw you as a funny bunny. And you got seriously mothered by the older girls. It's a dynamic designed to create a kick away rebellion.

This is something I wasn't explicitly aware of until now, the age being a significant period in exactly the regard that clobbered me the most. Its funny, i have NEVER considered the older girls "mothering" as anything short of wonderful, but I suspect you are exactly right about the rebellion.

It was wonderful, of course, it was protective and caring. But these girls although older were children and not mature enough to help you cope with the world. But for you, there were more apron strings to cut loose from. To obtain your independence, it kept you in a more child like state, although part of your survival in the world beyond your family. I think there was a price to pay for it too.

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So now let's ask those questions of you about the 9 year old stage, what was the most harmful the operation, hospital treatment or the funny bunny stuff at school?

This is easy - the physical pain was easy in comparison.

Thats my understanding too, and makes real sense. This is your strength too. The ability to survive the pain is a superhuman power, and it's deep in your internal physiology. The body opiates needed to do that build your tolerance. It assists in building your tolerance and has been instrumental in revising damage. Truly this is your route to freedom, this great strength has carried you through so far, whether you want it or not. My sense is you needed to hang on to the scars until you acknowledged this to yourself. You did this for you as a sort of defiance and partly as a badge of shame. Jellyb has the same with the jigsaw scars. Once they have served their purpose you can let go.

Of course there are issues with this, the external badge is reduced. That too will release internally but you will look and feel different to yourself. The acknowledgement goes. The link will be reduced.

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Did you advise your mum who sounds amazing by the way, or anyone at school?

My mum yes. She was supportive etc. I guess the thing was that I put on a brave face so that she wouldn't worry.


And of course as a parent you now know that wouldn't have happened LOL.

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In which ways psychologically did this need addressing?

And finally what have you done to address it?

I am still thinking about these things. In a sense it is clear that I needed acceptance. It was not possible for me to be satisfied or to feel that I was accepted by those that matter. I wasn't accepted by the majority of kids, and this wasn't something I could change. I suppose I knew this and just wanted time to pass and reinvent myself. I see now as I internalised and believed that I wasn't accepted, I developed unhealthy core-beliefs about myself and they subsequently became what I strived to disprove. The fact that I strove to a PhD in the hardest thing I could find (that still interested me) was I think in no small part due to this. In fact, I have always put myself last and what I WANT because in a sense IDK what I want. Maybe it is because for many years as a kid I wanted acceptance and I couldn't get it.

It is also your unique strength. I think that I really want you to know and understand that. The subsequent railing, struggles for acceptance were amoung your peer group and of course to yourself. You can be 'mothered' and that's ok with you, but ultimately those females who do this have to be broken away from. Hence you 6 year plus R resulted in escape. I am wondering about that I haven't yet formulated my thoughts. I am 'stuck' with the 9 year old but Have no desire to be your mum!!!

I am researching the physiological stuff so was going to ask was the tumour invasive and packed? you said 10% with surgery and the rest radio. So why only 10% or why 10% at all? It clearly left a scar that was visible, was that explorative and what did that scar mean to you then? what does it mean now?

IDK these terms sorry - I know the tumour was benign, but growing. They operated for 10% because they didn't know until then how much they could actually cut out. The neurologist I saw admitted that if it had've been 10 years earlier - i would be dead. If it had've been 10 years later - they would not have proceeded the way they did, and I possibly wouldn't have the issues with ataxia that I do now.

The scar was a huge deal when I was younger. So much so that my Mother went to see a plastic surgeon to ask what he could do. Basically he did manage disguise it to a large degree. Even still, I was self conscious about it. Now I don't really care. It isn't obvious at all. The scar, the ataxia, neural damage to my face - on occasions when I have discussed this with colleagues (recently because of my op) - they have never even noticed. I find this hard to swallow, but it is possible I guess.


The ataxia is just with the eye?

When I lost my hair due to my chemo I wore wigs. I decided to make it my thing, I had blonde, red, brown and even a purple wig. Long curly, short spikes and layered, the actuaries in the next desks along to my team claimed not to have noticed. I believe it, most people are most concerned with themselves. It's ironic, as children exclude but adults are lacking observance.

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I am still thinking about the other issues raised in you very strong open and vulnerable post. Being able to be vulnerable on these issues is an enormous power to healing.

Of particular interest is your description of the girlfriend you describe as 'saving your life' and of your W who you describe as 'not the sharpest'. There is a contrast there which is worth an in depth examination. The former seems as if she is a parallel to the girls in school, a protector or saviour. Not necessarily 'motherly' maybe exhibiting some of those traits.

I am pondering this. These are my thoughts as feedback, I hope it's useful.

V

Ms Vanilla,

From the bottom of my heart - thank you!!

Your brilliant analysis has tied together 30 years of "stuff". I will comment further when I am able.

I have had an amazing month in terms of growth, and I honestly believed that I wouldn't experience any further "spurts of growth" for sometime. You have shattered this expectation.

This morning, after reading your post, I feel like a new person. I had a tear in my eye as I read and I feel in my heart like someone I love has died, but I am not sad, I am happy.

I love you V and wish you to experience the happiness you have given me.

-Py

good to see you dwh.

I remarked to JulieH the same sentiment as you are describing. At least as the DBing LBS we are "treating" the short-comings within ourselves that lead to the M breakdown. The WASs seem to just keep repeating in many cases. Digging their hole deeper.

I am sad for them really. We can only hope that they snap out of it before it is too late for them. This doesn't even include whether or not WE are still in the picture. Children cloud this picture enormously. I often wonder what my position would be if the kids were not in the picture. Honestly, IDK.

Hey Asitis,



i have experienced this hardcore in the last 24 hours!! And like you, I can't distinguish between my projection/interpretation and their intention. Nonetheless, I have found I can absorb the feeling through a self-less love.

I haven't raised this yet with any teachers, I haven't read a satisfactory answer and my own conclusion is somewhat incomplete, or dis-satisfactory. Perhaps you have some insight you can share:

The Dharma encourages this self-less, detached love. This makes perfect sense. Romantic, "selfish" love for another person really stems from craving and attatchment. That person makes us feel good inside. We can feel this ourselves, without the external stimulus. However, what then makes one person more attractive than another. Makes me special, and them.

Testimony of this is that monks are celibate, not married, but "household Buddhist's" are free to marry. Although supposedly given this selfless, almost impersonal love. So how to choose a partner? On what grounds?

I suspect that one day, when the Dharma has soaked into the Universal mind-stream to the extent that even lay buddhists practice this selfless love, that Ms will take the form of arranged M's. In that it is only compatabilities on a different level that are necessary. Maybe this is the key though. Maybe if different individuals do have different qualities, this is where it starts from, although it is hard to see how attraction fits in.

Indeed, if one day we all achieve Budahhood, or close to, then don't we lose these aspects of individuality that lead to attraction, attachment, craving, samsara, dukka and so on. In this world it seems that arranged Ms would be necessary for procreation. I suppose as more and more people are enlightened, fewer and fewer souls would need to be reborn.

Anyway - individualism, what makes that special person special if romantic love is "imperfect" love.

Can't really advise you, but I can say that you just take it slowly & enjoy the experience, be open and up front, and let them decide whether they are comfortable pursuing something. Then keep checking your feelings.

I know there is a series "If the Buddha ..." and one of the titles is "If the Buddha Dated?" I have no idea if it is any good.

I think for me, there is a question of confusing an already confusing situation, especially while we are trying to negotiate a new, separate life apart. I know in my case, I just let things be for several weeks, and usually the urge passed. Better I hadn't gone that path then.

Good luck on selfless love to one person. It is not something one achieves, in my opinion. It can't if it's focused on a person. We naturally cling to and form a more exclusive attachment bond with that person. Suffering comes with that. I see Rs as just a part of life and a great form of practice in themselves, but also something not just that. Who knows? If I had it figured out, I'd not be in the current sitch, would I?

Its funny that. "Old souls". I felt this way when I was younger. Later in life, and especially now, I feel rather juvenile. Perhaps going through development I should've experienced many years ago.



theses very interesting and makes total sense. I am experiencing a similar phenomena ATM with "phantom" pains in my foot where the neural conection has been removed.



The tumour hasn't completely gone per se, but MRI's show that the entire region of the brain stem is dead tissue.



This is some of the "stuff" that I mentioned. My mum has always commented on my bravery and strength and what I have now achieved. I am not dismissive of this is in the sense that I think she is being disingenuous, but I have always felt uncomfortable, even patronised by this talk. She tells me how at the time the medicos couldn't guarantee how well I would recover in any respect. At yearly checkups, my neurosurgeon always asked about my motivation, my intelligence, aptitude, activities etc. Generally he was impressed that I was so "normal". Immediately after BD,my father commented that I was the strongest person he knew and if anyone could get through this was it was me. Patronised again? I could count on one hand the number of times my father has complemented me on anything.

After reading your analysis I believe it was always genuine. The problem was that my mum went straight from A-Z. Possibly because I was too young at the time too really grasp everything in between, and now that she is at Z, and has been for decades, the in-between alphabet is assumed knowledge. You have fleshed out that alphabet for me today Vanilla, and I am eternally grateful for your "gift".



Freedom - I feel reborn today. The route to freedom seems like downhill stroll from here

Shame -this is it!! this has clouded my life. My IC had me complete score-beliefs exercise. Noting the trigger situation, my thoughts, response, potential core-belief, potential alternative AND lastly how I felt afterwards. She noted that in the last column, everything ended with GUILT. Then we talked about guilt and shame coming from the same place.


The ataxia is just with the eye?


Ataxia is on my whole right side. It is enough to be troublesome and annoying for me, but most people wouldn't notice. I can't really write anymore, although I force myself to every day lest the neural pathways die completely. I visited a neuro-physio a few years ago who had a grand old time experimenting and noting how my brain had re-wired itself in order to perform certain "tasks".



A year ago I certainly would not have described my W like that. I would've begrudgingly acknowledged it (if forced maybe). I would've said she was the warmest, kindest, sweetest person.

My long time X was also warm, kind, sweet (to a lesser degree maybe) and very generous. But she was also very strong, very sensible, very confident. My W certainly did not have these latter qualities. She "saved me" by being the love in my life and ultimately being tough enough to tell me when enough was enough.



V - you have been more than helpful. You have lifted the shroud on 30 years of "stuff".

hence the dilemma. if it is focussed on a single person, what makes them so special and others not. Why choose them. I imagine that we should treat everyone the same, and so a pure selfless love would be equal for everyone. everyone is not the same, but selfless love is supposed to transcend the mundane, externals. Monks visit inmates on death row and profess to "love" murderers etc with equal love.

I do believe though that we are at least close to feeling selfless love for our children without any effort.




But this is exactly the reason to embrace selfless love. Life is "naturally" subject to suffering. This is a Noble Truth. The 4th of which is HOW to get around this. (A few minutes work )




A great outlook my friend.



Amen! "Do over" time.

thanks mate.