Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Few Questions From. Newbie

I am angry that she has neglected the kids every since the BD. I have been doing everything I can to have fun with them and keep us busy, especially since school starts soon. She is focused on herself only. So selfish right now. She is normally an excellent mother. I see a definite change in her. When she is home, she is looking at her phone way too much. She is home, but not present.

I don't feel like I can do or say the anything right. I want to say something to her, but I feel like it will push her away, lead to a fight, etc.
I can't wait to get my books on Tuesday. I hope I get some more tools on how to deal with this all.
I appreciate all the feedback. I am really confused on the detachment and boundaris as it seems I have to break the 37 rules to get there.

It's still a boundary, don't give your permission if she's going wayward. Saying go enjoy yourself, looks like permission. It seems confusing but both 180 and boundaries are the DB way.

I think the 180 stance is. "I don't agree with this as it against my core beliefs but won't stop you".

The other 180 is to stay calm (not get "mad"), and to say behaviours have consequences. And not to chase whilst she is out.

Plus another 180 is not asking her to ring, waiting is pushing your buttons. Put the phone in the car and leave it there.

The 180 is not to give approval, but to stop trying to control W. So you aren't stopping her. When my WH went out, I didn't say have a great time, I said nothing, but kept a Calendar of every time he did. Then I pointed out it was also inappropriate every night. He said " I don't care" so I said "I know that but it's still a boundary issue for me". On no occasion did I say "go have fun". If he was visiting his grandchildren I did say " enjoy your time with your GDs". It was appropriate.


Plus WH was visiting single women in their homes, not appropriate, nor is wining and dining a single friend with the intention of going wayward. Taking an ex employee with cancer to lunch, ok.

I would not go out all night except to Besties for a girlie night, it's not appropriate for a W to go to the homes of single men. My boundary.

This isn't what you want, it's authentic for you to have a boundary on it. it's authentic for you to say so. It is also appropriate for you to refuse to babysit every time she does this, you have a life, you go GAL, you may not want to stay out all night but you might want concert GAL, good mate GAL, etc and that's appropriate for you.

You don't have to tell her to enjoy her potential waywardness!

I just feel angry today. It is 10am. I left with son to motocross track. Going to burn some gas and hopefully some negative energy. W was not home when I left, but texted me to see if kids want breakfast and to say she is on way home. Told her we are going to mx track. Daughter did not want to go. I feel so bad for my daughter, but had to leave. Do not want to fight with W and I am angry, so left asap.
I am lost. Not sure what to say when I get home. I'm afraid that I will say something that will move me backwards. I'm going to read the 37 rules again before entering the front door.
Any advice is greatly appreciated and needed.

What I'm having issue with is how to communicate that I don't like it without pushing her away. One of her complaints was that she feels like I have kept her from having a life. I have kept her from friends. I should have went out with her AND her friends as couple dating when I was invited. Instead, I would say let's just stay home. I travel for work in outside sales, so I like to be home when I'm home.
Now, she is trying to GAL. Visiting her sister on other side of state last weekend. Hanging with her best is last night at a bar and then having a "slumber party".
If I tell her I don't like this, I am demonstrating I still have control, trust, and jealousy issues. Right now, my trust level is very low. I'm trying to let go of control. As it is said on here, I can't control her. So, telling her how I feel is difficult.

Ok Eric, I seemed not to have explained very well, I apologise for that.

I am extracting some better explanations from my personal notes, this is from Patricia Evans:

So what are the differences between boundaries and control?

A boundary is that invisible line that separates your from the rest of the world. Within your boundary is that personal space where you feel safe and secure.  In healthy relationships where neither person needs to control the other, both partners have an understanding of fairness and the others person's needs.  They grant each other the right to have psychological space and look out for small ways to create happiness for the other person. 

Control within a relationship can happen when appropriate boundaries are not set and kept. it is an attempt to provide a one up.

Boundaries are needed when one partner tries to control the other. When someone invades your space physically or emotionally with discounting your needs, manipulation, bullying or abuse, your personal boundaries are violated.  Power and force to get one's way and causes the other person to submit are the hallmarks of boundary transgressions.  When you give yourself away taking care of others without looking out for yourself in a relationship, resentment and anger can build up resulting in your feeling hard done to.

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Ok, so you say that one of your W valid complaints was a restricted social life. Ask did you 'forbid' her to go out or was this her choice. did you flat out "no" or did you negotiate?

Is it reasonable not to go out as a couple, even if that's your preference?

Your W felt she had no life, how far is that true?

So what are the 180s you can see from your answers?

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When W started to go out with her friends she appears to have pushed your buttons, and then you said that you argued.

What aspect of W going out crossed your boundary? Going out with her friends? Going out drinking with her friends? Staying out all night? Not being back to look after the kids?

Is your boundary reasonable and fair to both you and W?

It's your boundary,but enforcing your boundary by getting angry isn't reasonable or fair. Denying another their boundary isnt fair either.

Getting angry wont help you in your sitch. I sense this. I do understand your boundary has been violated and you are angry. I think W is acting out like a teenager, someone from the MLC part of the board might help. My knowledge is very limited on MLC.
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Let me say what I think is reasonable, you have your choice and W has hers too.


So if I were W, I would think it reasonable that I have friends of my own and that I have a life of my own, including girlie nights on the tiles occasionally. I would expect to be open, be contactable and say where I was going with whom and when I will be back. I can visit my family as I need to.

I might also want a social life with my H as well as a family life. To be romantic and have date nights. That seems reasonable. If my H travels for work then those social things would be negotiated.
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If this hasn't happened then that would be a 180, which W sees as getting a life. W has an involvement in this too. I sense if you get angry W will see this as restricting her in her social life.

I would suggest it isn't W going out that is the issue or going to see her sister. It is the going out all night with single girlfriends and possibly meeting with single guys she has chatted to on FB. That is more than getting a life.

When you are calm and composed talk about the boundary violations but you need to be precise about those, can you define exactly what it is? As for pushing W away she already is away.

Have you decided on your reasonable boundary?

You can try to control W and unlikely to be successful, but you can have boundaries which you can express.

So for example "W, I am very concerned that you go out all night drinking with your friends, without saying where you are. In particular when there are activities for the children in the morning and you are not meeting your commitments. I am cross about the effect this is having and my trust in you is low. What can we do to resolve this issue?"

There are others better with words than I. You have sales skills which could be put to great use in this I think so.

V

I just broke more rules and had a huge blowout with my W.
I was walking by my W and saw she was texting someone. She did not see me and was startled. Turned her phone screen away from me, pushed the screen lock button and then restarted phone. I said who are you texting? Why are you hiding who you are texting? She denied texting anyone and wouldn't tell me. I am 100% sure she was and would not let go the fact that she was hiding something.
From there, my insecurities from last night poured out. I told her she was disrespectful for not calling or texting me last night when she went out for a "slumber party" when she said she would call or text me.
I kept asking who it was she was hiding. She kept denying. I kept asking her to show me that she was not texting someone. She wouldn't show me.
I said we need to talk. My kids were home and I asked her to come to our bedroom to talk. She reluctantly agreed because she didn't want kids to hear me. They are unaware.
She said we are done. She maintains she does not want to work on anything. I ask her why and she can't give me one reason. I do the brunt of talking. Pleading, begging for her to work on us and not to throw away 18 years. She says she is unhappy and I tell her I think she should leave then. I told her I love my wife,life, kids, and home. I told her if she is unhappy and doesn't want to try to love again she should leave. I said love is a feeling, but it is also a choice. Told her she needs to let go of the past mistakes I have made and trust me with her heart. Told her we can work on our communication and that would fix a lot of our problems.
She says she is done. I told her she can explain it to out s:8 and d:13. She could tell them she doesn't want to try to make this work. I tried to argue with her to try to give us a chance. Told her if she put the same effort in to working on us as she is detaching, hurting me, and walling me off, that we would make some progress together.
She maintained we are done. I told her to leave then. I told her I am happy here and I will take care of the kids while she chases happiness. She is shocked that i am asking her to leave. She thought i should have to leave. I told her if she is unhappy she should be the one to leave. Go find happiness! I tried to force her to decide. She says I'm leaving then. She tells kids she is going to stay at her moms. She is crying and kids are crying. I start crying. Cat is out of the bag. Kids know there is a big problem. They know W is unhappy.
My son begs her to stay home and not leave. I ask her to stay. She is angry at me that I forced this conversation. (I deeply regret it as well. I think she is definitely hiding OM and did not want to own it.)
She decides to stay night in daughters room. I am here in our bedroom with my son. I think she will be physically separated now. She will be leaving. I forced her hand.
I am tired and sick to my stomach. She does not love me. Does not want to try to love me. She is done.

So, what now? I broke more rules. I am moving in the wrong direction. I blew up when I did not want to. It was not a healthy conversation. She can't tell me one reason why she has to leave me. She can't tell me why I make her so unhappy. I asked and asked. She said she just feels that we are done.

Start over with a beginner's mind.

Reread this thread again and homework.

You don't make W unhappy, you don't have that power. She has that over herself.

Follow Cadets advice to the letter, start again. In the meanwhile STFU, withdraw and think.

Your children need peace.

V

Eric, try to calm yourself. If you enter the house with all this pressure inside you, it is sure to lead to a bad outcome.

I suggest you NOT purchase other books while waiting on DB/DR. Too many authors with their own opinions and it will confuse most people who are already in an emotional state.

You have a wayward wife. Have you read my threads for newcomer LBH'S 's with a WW? It is one of the links Cadet gave as homework. Reading those links will do more than getting another book to read while waiting on the DBing.

I think you are confused about setting boundaries, 180's, etc. 180's are about doing something different (positive and appropriate) to replace an old/bad reaction or behavior. Boundaries (another link on Cadet's list) are set to establish respect for you. There are some things you just won't endure b/c you don't have to. It is disrespectful, inappropriate and offensive. It goes against your values, morals, and belief system. If you don't protect what you value in yourself, nobody else will.

So, you decide what you can live with, and what you won't. If you can control no other adult but yourself, how do you establish respect? If it is a co-worker, friend, family member, or spouse.......how do they know how far they can push you?

A WW is overflowing with disrespect for her H. She is filled with resentment and rebellion. She is driven by pure selfishness. Nothing "will work" to save the M until she begins to respect you as a man again. That means, drawing the line in the sand about some issues. But it goes further. You MUST be prepared with a plan as to what you will do when she doesn't honor that boundary. Remember, it needs to be a consequences to her disrespect, but you are the only one you can control. Think about it.

Do not start out saying something you will regret. It isn't good to go around crowing about this and that suddenly being a boundary. She will immediately know you've been reading, and will probably laugh behind your back. So, think before you say anything, and make it count. She isn't going to honor it until she sees you carry through with action. So, be careful. A boundary is not an ultimatum. WW's see an ultimatum as a dare and will do it, or die trying.

If you believe it is inappropriate for a mother of two to be out bar hopping all night (or spending the night with GF.......? In the same town??.......really?), and you feel it is disrespectful to the M, is there some type of boundary you would want to apply here? It won't stop her (just stating the boundary) so what would be the consequences that would send her the message?