Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Zelda - Baby One More Time

Z

If you want to ring WH do so.

Now, what was your first reaction to that statement?

And your second?

V

1. Really?! (Anxiety)
2. Yeah? You think? (Hope)

Didn't mean to come across as thinking you were this weak, dependent creature. It makes more sense now that you explained it that you really dislike feeling helpless in even one area. Yes?

So is your answer because:

A. that you want to go back to WH
B. You want WH to come back to you
C. You would prefer to be in control of you, WH, your sitch and its unfamiliar
D. There is cognitive dissonance, the reality is different to your expectation
E. Something else, loss of your dream R, child, or another reason?

If you rang WH would his answer give you closure? Whether it was lets go round again, or Are you kidding me? Or would you need something more? A meeting? Would you keep on until you got the answer that fits?

V

V- b,c,d. Yes.

A- I think you nailed it for me. Helpless. It is terrifying. My biggest trigger is being lost, not making sense of directions, electronics, basic mechanics...any of it is liable to send me into fits of anger where I know it's no ones fault, but I lash out anyway. My earliest nightmares, 4/5 yo, being in a car and not knowing how to drive it. Angrily throwing shoes across the room bc I couldn't lace them and then spending hours teaching myself. UN-fixing things as a child/teen I'd begrudgingly accepted help for, just to prove I could do it by myself, fix it, get it, whatever. Homework help, anything met with frustration and impatience, anger spilling everywhere. Hurling myself down a black diamond slope full of moguls for over eight hours because I could see where I was messing up but couldn't seem to get my body to react how I needed. Angrily sulking on the lifts back up with my bf who was trying to lighten the mood. The upside to all this is I am accomplished as
An athlete, musician, artist, have fixed plumbing and ac units and that level of 'focus' has generally served me well in gettin it done.

I've never understood why I get so so so upset at being lost. I did this in Paris and seethed for over 20 minutes at no one in particular. After the storm I can barely relate to the feeling, it seems silly.

Tonight I embarassed myself at a family dinner. My uncle said something flippant that landed like a lead balloon. My aunt was asking questions of me that I had no interest in, just stupid stuff. My mom was fidgeting nervously beside me. I was trying to cut everyone short, I could feel tears is been holding down all afternoon. My uncle asked if I was still working in project x/livelihood...my curt no..,I broke eye contact and it just felt relentless and I said to them all, "you know what would be great, if we can talk about anything else besides me, if you will all please quit staring at me." I excused myself and went to the bathroom and cried it out. In an effing restaurant. I felt my head coming apart in the stall, total loss of reality, everything g seemed so tragic, like an overtired baby.

I've caught myself doing this before, getting defensive and curt with polite conversation and small talk that feels intrusive and boring all at the same time. I get profoundly annoyed to the point of rudeness. This is my problem. It's only when I'm in a bad place that im like this though where I just want to be a fly on the walk and yet I go do the things and see the people.

I just feel like gears are slipping in a bad way. My head is a turbulent mess, I'm crying more these days than at any other time, I feel like STBX knew what he was talking about, me just an unhappy petson.

V, that's it - I have a hard time letting go of anything until I feel I've fixed it, mastered it, or sculpted it the way it is in my mind and it needs to be. My female bestie has joked with me I have an idiot savant level of focus and tenacity. Maybe that is what you are getting at -

yes, I would keep on until I got the answer I wanted- that answer being STBX sand I finally perfecting our communication so no more buttons, I could talk with him in a way he'd trust and id be that better listener for him, that none of the events from that night ever hsppened, not the way I thought. He wasn't smirking, it was just in my imagination.

Yes, maybe 'e' too. The dreams are hard to give up.

IDk what keeps me from keeping on. I dread contact bc of anxiety, his responses and nastiness are so hurtful. I know rationally this is for the best and very little stands to change.

But it feels like a daily war, that rationsl side vs what I've been calling the emotional side - which maybe Is just my unwilling to let it go side. Unwilling to have failed. Emotionally, I do miss him. But that's a deep tangle of resentment and hurt, too.

OK Z, deep breaths. You think you embarrassed yourself in a restaurant in front of your family. Family probably thinking poor Z has had it rough & is allowed to breakdown a bit - lots of sympathy and compassion (OK, maybe too optimistic, but maybe not too much). So, you start judging yourself using your imagination about them judging you. See the mismatch yet?

Z needs to show herself some damn compassion. She's been through a hell of a lot. Z needs to not expect to be 100% in control of herself. She is human and under a lot of stress. Z needs to stop imagining that people are judging her harshly, and she needs to stop worrying about it if they do.

Where do you think this drive to be able to control everything, including yourself come from? Not fidgiting mother? Definitely something to explore.

[I'm not going to state my guess, but you can probably figure where I'm headed & its impact on your R w/ XH?]

Now a book recommendation: Kristen Neff, Self-Compassion. Highly recommend for you (really for everyone).

Know that while I'm not a control freak, I definitely have the fix it gene/socialization combo, hate being judged, and really have had to wrestle w/ self-criticism & needing to be good enough. So, I have a lot of first hand experience on how it can really muck up an R & leave one w/ drive to go back and fix the damage relationship and win back the good judgment of my spouse. You can't start to deal w/ that until you start to show yourself some compassion, some forgiveness for being merely human, and see where that is coming from and how much harm it is doing to you and your Rs. So, please forgive yourself for your supposed falling apart in front of your family in a restaurant (did the uncle even notice? ), and give yourself a good dose of Z is doing really, really well under the circumstances and console yourself the way you would a close friend.

And, for goodness sake don't call the guy and wonder if this is what he really wanted. Let the damn dust settle.

Yes Z, that is what I am saying. I too suffer from Hyperfocus, the single minded persuit that locks everything out. I can spend hours on insignificant things until I master them.

So now let's ask why. Why does Z need that level of control?

Keeps on going like the terminator until the end. Is it helping you achieve anything worth while?

If at the very end despite all advice and your own reluctance you are still going to contact WH in a call, then be safe if and when you do so. Do so in the presence of your IC, but consider what exactly would close the deal for you?

Let's dig deeper, this fear of failure, is it in all things?

Were you parents critical of you, where dd these feelings originate? You are only worthwhile because of that which you do not because of you are? This is the difference between self esteem and self compassion.

Worth is not about what you do, perfectly or not, otherwise you perform well and you have high self esteem, perform badly and its low. That is the road to destruction, no one can do everything to that standard. Hence self esteem isn't a great measure of self worth. This is an enormous sword of Damocles.

The truth is that if you link your self worth to what you do rather than who you are then you will tread this road forever. Because it just isn't feasible to be worthy under those circumstances. The worth of a person is in who they are, to do justice to that Z you can instead aspire to self compassion. Truly Self Compassion is the way we measure ourselves. Otherwise the fear of failure will rule your life, you will always need to perform to have value in your own eyes.

So let's look at success, what does success mean to you?

Can you make the journey alone a success? Can you reframe this to find self compassion?

If I thought that by ringing WH you would get closure then I would be the first to say go do it.

Can I also ask Z, if I told you I wanted to ring my WH to see if reconciliation were possible what would you tell me?

V

V, no I would not advise you to call a man up I see as soulless and angry And lost. I must keep my STBX's smile and vulnerability, his living sides out of my own mind. Come face to face with memories of a dog in my lap shaking, being shut out, cussed out, intimidated, psychoanalyzed, abandoned.

Asitis, thank you. Raised by an alcoholic narcissist that was a cross between Donald Trump and crazy uncle Rico from Napolean Dynamite. He was gifted, though. Rolled off logs, made lots of money. Army Ranger, helicopter pilot, musician, very intelligent and successful. I got random doses of compassion, constant criticism, though nearly all constructive when sober. Abuse was another matter even obvious to me as a child when he was drunk. I don't think I ever internalized it like it was my fault. Just thought he could get better. I'll take your advice and stock up my reading list.

I have had a pretty good couple of days. At least compared to the last week. My hearing is about two weeks away. There have been many more hours I have seen my husband a little more objectively than I have been. Looking at him in "reality "makes me feel like I was under a spell of my own doing for a long time. Lots of activity and GAL these past couple of days.

V, I have taken one of your mantras, "I will not be abused" and used it like the rubber band snapping trick to deal with obsessive thoughts. So whenever I catch my heart missing him, mourning, thinking of reconciling, I say it. And I think up a scene that represents the abuse, and i feel my feelings from those awful moments, and I put it away. I fear that I am unfairly color in the past, but it will get me through. It is very difficult right now to let the good times and the bad times exist in the same space next to each other. The whole big round reality to be at peace with. Every once in a while I can do it; but it is fleeting.

I have had two very rattling dreams.

1. STBX and I were talking about reconciling. My mother and my aunt were with me, and we are headed over to his house, our old one, to meet for breakfast. He was in the shower, and I called out to him asking if I could go look for something I thought I had left. I found a drawer full of another woman's shoes and clothing instead. I screamed and tour shoes to bits and pieces. Repeatedly pressured him to tell me who she was and how long she had been there. He deflected, deflected, defkected. I woke up shaken, but as I shower that morning I realized that even if we were to talk about reconciling, these are the feelings I would have to deal with. I know from reading his posts online, the ones he thought were anonymous, he is had a mind toward sleeping with other women, getting his emo needs met by them for a long time. To reconcile, I would have to come face-to-face with the knowledge that I wasn't what he wanted. Aside from the abuse issues, I would have to trust that he wasn't still wondering about other fish out in the sea. It was hard enough when he came back to "piece" and he had only been hinting at the idea that other people might make us happier. I read things since our split I wish I hadn't. And he told me he had no interest in Fidelity after separated. So it was a beneficial dream, because I've barely been thinking about that aspect of things in all my fantasies of somehow making this work.

2. A strange dream this morning, where he was alternately himself, and a very dear ex-boyfriend from years and years ago. I don't remember the details as well. I do know I was screaming at him out of anger about how he set me up. All the crap about I love you, trust me, only to turn violent when the big check was in reach. He blew me off in the dream as he'd done IRL.

In both dreams, I was absolutely enraged. I think I need to reconize that my own anger and lack of trust would be just as big of an obstacle to US reconciling as his abusive, childish tendencies. DR teaches us that we have to forgive in order to be able to move forward, but I think I will be in a healthier place right now holding some of that anger and mistrust in a place where it belongs. Every time I try to see past it, I and up feeling sorry for him and thinking this can work out again.

I think that the trauma, hurt, anger, and feelings of horror and disbelief are well-deserved and I need to continue to feel them as primary in order to heal. I know that is counterintuitive to every bit of New Age wisdom. But I do know when I sit in these feelings, rather than setting them aside, I really don't give a rats ass what he thinks or what is wrong with him. The question is no longer, "is this what my husband really wants? " The question is squarely, "is this what I want anymore? " I just know that I am glad I will not be married any longer to him. And that is the point of healing where I need to get to. Consistently anyway.

I am going to discuss forgiveness. In my opinion when a great wrong is done, when we are abused, deliberately hurt and damaged. Targeted. We have a choice not to forgive and it is a valid choice. We need not forgive, it isn't mandated.

I believe this, some sins are unforgivable.

Having said that, the element which is destructive is that which creates resentment and revenge. I wish my WH well, I hope he has everything to make him whole. I fear he won't but I want that for him. I don't want revenge, I would prefer fairness and justice.

There is enormous trauma in my world and the origin is WH. I do not forgive him but I will not be bitter.

I still say "I will not be abused" to myself. I find it strong and healing.

The dreams I have are lucid too, sometimes slightly comic but hurtful and embedded in trauma. The psychologist I saw said trauma dreams are better than the flashbacks. I have had those too, flashbacks, space outs and mild hallucinations. The dreams are at least more containable even if uncomfortable.

V