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I agree Uphill but it does emphasise the build up to the A. Even without an A it is important to really try to see the real reasons and unmet needs of the spouse.

I totally agree with that point. I can see how it would lead that direction. But it still takes lots of conscious thoughts, actions and decipt to get to the A. In my case there were underlying problems which I was unaware of for some time. Now I know those things were eating away at her but at the time I had no idea. Subtle hints went in noticed. I noticed her drifting a little but any time I would ask if something was wrong I got an answer of no. It is hard to fix the issues if you don't know about them. I guess what I am saying is if the A happens because they were pushed away, it still comes back to not only you but them not addressing the root of the problem. My sweeping it under the carpet they still are partially responsible for the problems that cannot be fixed without pointing them out.
I am in no way trying to place ALL blame there but it's hard to fix something when you think it is working just fine.

I will also add just to clarify, in my case I am unaware of an A. That would be devastating! This is all nothing but my personal view on things and how I would see them. My XF claims to just need time and space to figure out life... I hope with all my soul that is all it is and she picks me when she gets back on track.

Uphill,

Don't convince yourself that an A would be devastating. You need to feel as though you can handle anything that comes your way. Don't set yourself up for disappointment. I am not suggesting you let you imagination go crazy, just that you keep a frame of mind that will get you through anything.

I know I'll get through it, that is my deal breaker though. Just the thought of it makes me cringe. That is something our relationship was based on was that moral, if that ends up being broken it's on her... Sorry to hijack this thread btw...

Uphill, my point is that most people on the other side of the A think that you do it without caring about them, that you have thought it out and planned it but it really isn't like that. At least not for me and for several other people I know who found themselves in the same position. Before I had an A, I judged people who had one and thought the same as everyone else, "If you are going to cheat, why not leave". After it happened, I had a completely different understanding.

Is it a lack of self control? Maybe. What I really think people need to understand is that they think of an A as the ultimate betrayal and think "how could you", "I would never do that" "I had opportunity and I didn't do it", etc. I can never get over the fact that they think it is worse than years of poor treatment. It isn't. One is a quick, painful death and the other is slow and agonizing. It was not okay for me to have an affair. I know that. However, self control had nothing to do with it for me. My husband didn't care about me, didn't want to do anything to improve our M, told me to go find someone else because he didn't care what I did and then couldn't believe I had an A? I never wanted my M to end but it had been over for years before I had the A. If I hadn't had one, we would either be divorced or we would still be miserable together. It wasn't until I had one foot out the door that he realized maybe he did care after all. I didn't have the A because I lacked self respect or self control. I had because I was dying inside, I was emotionally empty for years in the relationship department and when you feel that empty you make poor choices. The partners in the relationships that have an A need to take ownership of what they did that could leave someone so hurt and lonely that they think it is a good choice. It isn't your fault they make the choice, that is 100% on her. What is your fault is what you did to make her feel she was so unimportant to you that it felt good to be wanted by someone.

Ilovethehub,
You sound alot like my WW. I know that you are telling the truth. I appreciate the other side. In my case, i know that I neglected my Ww emotionally and for awhile shut down due to alot of the mistakes my Ww made and is still making.

My question is, what shook you out of your "fog"? Was it changes you saw in your H over a period of time? Did you just decide that you wanted to make i work? What happened? Is there any advice you can give with your experience. Alot of us LBS's could use a different perspective.

Not wanting to hijack Ralfy's thread but it would be good to hear an answer to Hurtjef from Lovethehub to compare with Sandi2.

Yes, my apologies to Ralphy. I looked back at Ilovehubs past threads. Seems she was out of the fog by the time she came here....just curious how she came to realize that she wanted to save the MR.

i have a quick comment/question for lovethehub, it sounds like in your situation he was aware of issues and didn't seem to want to correct them or put the effort forth? Is that true? If it is I do understand your story and explanation a little better. In my case there was almost no warning.

I got a rude awakening in February. That was my eye opener. The first I heard of many of my faults. I immediately changed and turned into the overbearing pursuer because I felt guilty not knowing or fixing these things. That is what ultimately pushed her away in late May. She said she needs time and space which was a totally new eye opener because I didn't realize I was over doing it until then. By then she was already packing. I thought I did everything asked of me but I should have taken baby steps instead of jumping in head first.

I guess what I'm saying is in my case I would feel very betrayed because I wasn't given them warning signs (to my knowledge) it was dropped on my lap once about not being there enough and once because I was doing too much.