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Hello RAI. Yes I have and they seem to confirm the DB is about preparing yourself for D, or do I read things too quickly miss something?

Beagley,

I dont recall which page in DB/DR it is, but MWD explicitly says that there is no guarantee you'll save your M but that YOU will come out of the situation a better person while giving the best effort you can to save the M.

I know it's hard to grasp this initially, I was in the same boat. I thought for sure my sitch was not as bad as others, that I for sure would not be in this place for long. I was wrong, but having followed the processes here I've been able to honestly say I'm OK with where I am now.

I truly believe I would not be as emotionally stable as I am today had I not found this board, read the books, followed the process. I still have a ways to go, and plan to keep following the process because it works for me.

Do what you will, but I think you'll have a hard time finding a guaranteed process to save your M. It just doesn't exist, humans are too complex. Having said that, you'll find many people here who can attain that they came out of the fire a stronger, better person for having been here and followed the plan.

If you're willing, we're all are here to help you become a better you. You may save your M, you may not. But you will save you.

Couldn't agree with you more Jedi. What I was getting at was the observation that more seem to be accepting divorce as an inevitability than those who are making a success of applying, or continuing to apply the DB philosophy regardless of circumstance.

It seems that everyone agrees this is more the case and so it's good to understand where to position your mindset when reading the threads.

Understanding the "hive mind" when on a BB is necessary to ensure you get the most from it and can give back effectively too.

I think the first step to moving forward is accepting that divorce is, statistically, the most likely outcome for us all. This was, and still is, hard for me to admit, but my logical brain knows this to be true.

Having said that, the one main thing I have learned from being here this short time is that just because I think something is likely does not necessarily mean it's going to happen. We cannot control the future, so anything is possible. I am still very open to the possibility of reconciliation with my W even if statistically this is not likely.

I'm sorry if this is blunt, but I still feel like you are wanting to decide if you can save your M or not based on your perception of the overall tone of this BB.

If you stopped worrying about this for a second, what exactly is it that YOU want?

Yes



It's not just "this" BB, it is going to be the majority of any BB b/c 50% of marriages end in divorce. That's the stats I have heard on TV, and other sources, for years.

As far as stats based on those who used the DB program, I don't know how it could be justly determined. In my own observation, alone, I have seen people come & go on the board who made claims of applying DB.....when I saw (based on what they wrote) they did NOT apply DB principles/techniques, or apply properly. Truth was, they ignored what they read and did things the way they wanted to do it. I have even seen a few return and say that DBing did not work for them. What they failed to see was that DBing is not about joining the board, but doing the work. No program can give a guarantee up front, b/c no program is fool-proof.

Your questions are not uncommon for a newcomer. Perhaps it is b/c they want a guarantee or to shop around and compare, IDK. Each person has to come to their own conclusion. Those of us here on this board believe DBing has the best guidelines in showing the member how to deal with the crisis in their life. Plus, it has a truly wonderful group of people who spend hours supporting their fellow board member.

Beagley

I understand your thought process right now, I had my doubts about this forum for a while also. I would read so many threads of people accepting D or things not working out. Its even harder seeing how many threads are created and unknown when you compare it to how many success stories there are. I have noticed those stories that are going bad continue to post where those that seem to get better stop posting. I think part of moving forward in this process is accepting that D is a very real possibility and nothing we can do may change that. Its just the reality of this situation.

At one point I wondered if the entire point of DB was not to save the M but to get us through this painful time and accept that the D was inevitable. The truth is when we get to these forums, no matter which, the chances of things turning around are already very low. I believe by following through and doing the DB work we have the best possible chance to save our M, even if that chance is still very low.

Its hard to say for sure where any one person's stats for D are. We see the overall rates but those don't account for every situation. Yes, second and third marriages are at higher rate to fail, but I wonder how those of us that actually do the DB work fit into that. We know those in A's as second M's are at a much much higher rate to fail (nearly 100%). Its also very likely those WAS's that walk away and ignore their own issues will have more issues in later M's. This is also true for the LBS who doenst follow through with DB and jumps ship when they are out of the pain and just want to move on.

The way I see it, those that stick around through the hard parts and do the DB work are at a much lower rate to fail in second M's. Doing that mirror work on yourself and understanding the parts of the M you were responsible regardless of what the the WAS/WW does is the best way to avoid issues in the future. I don't think most do the work for DB the right way, they use it to try and save the M instead of saving themselves and stop as soon as they are in a place to move onto a new R. I wont be that person, ill be the one to fix myself as much as possible so I'm ready to make my second M work or to reconcile with my W if that time comes. I don't know for sure which that will be, I hope its with my W, but either way I will do everything in my power to use this time to improve my future.

This was just my thought process and how I came to the conclusion I was in the right place.

I have an opinion on this.

You will hear over and over on here that the work we do here is for us. So we can become a better person, more attractive to our spouses, regain our confidence and work on the things that was damaging in our marriages. I came here to try and save my marriage. After doing the work and after some time has gone by and things in my situation changed, I do not want to save my marriage. I don't want the marriage that I had. This means several things. If my STBXW fixed things on her end and went to counseling and admitted and apologized for the hurt he has done, I would think about a NEW marriage with her. Or some day, I will meet some one new and I will have learned from my mistakes in this marriage.

Another thing I believe is by doing the work here and becoming a better person, more confident, more detached, learning to validate than if our S does want to work on the marriage, we are better able to handle it. Honestly, if any of our spouses came back to us after a month or two of being separated, how would we handle it. How would we be able to handle the infidelity, lying and betrayal. And the hurt. It would make the situation 10 time harder. Doing the work here has put me in a better place so I feel confident that if my STBXW came back one day and wanted to work on the marriage, I could handle it better. BUT honestly I would have to think REALLY hard and decide if I even want to be with her again. Maybe I deserve better!! Maybe I deserve someone that isn't going to tuck tail and run when the going gets tough!!

I see alot of new comers here asking about guarantees! I also wanted to know when I started here. There is one guarantee I will give you, do the work, post often, follow the steps people give you, listen to the vets, detach from your spouse and work on yourself and you will get through this one way or another. You will become a better partner and person. More confident and be able to handle these relationship issues better.

A comment my STBXW said to me one night when she was freaking out and I was calmly talking to her in a confident tone and validating her, " why didn't you change like this years ago?"

Would you care to define success?

I am divorced however I have applied these things that I have learned here and I believe I am a success.

I can almost guarantee that if you try to avoid learning the knowledge here and jump right to the divorce switch that you will be bitter and almost for sure will fail in your next relationship.

So - yes you make the changes for YOU and I believe that we have 100% success rate - for those that follow the program - and work on themselves.


My .02

Jedi - thank you for your comment, it really helped, there is no doubt in my mind that I want to save my M, my perception of the overall tone of this BB felt as if it was dragging me away from that and it felt uncomfortable.

Sandi2, Fogg, Joe46 & Cadet - what you say makes total sense, I wasn't looking for a guarantee, that is plain silly, I simply subscribe to the ethos that if you surround yourself with people who are looking to achieve what you are, then you have a much greater chance of that happening. The perceived "overly easy acceptance of D" I was bringing up was because the number who seem to subscribe to this was slightly overwhelming and not the 50-50 split that is seemingly the reality of whether a divorce happens or not. From what you are saying the best approach is to wear "blinders" (I think that's what they are called in the U.S. us Limey's call them blinkers) when reading certain threads and familiarise myself more with who is in which camp and pay more attention to their posts.

One thing is for certain and that is I now understand the DB'ing is about working on yourself and the results will be good for you regardless of the outcome of which 50% your M ends up in.

Thanks again everyone.

Beagley ... new to your sitch but something you proposed struck me.

Problem with the 50-50 stat .. thats out of all marriages right? So people who come here obviously are more towards that 50% D group already as more than likely the WAS is already checked out. so out of that 50% 'doomed' number ... who knows what percentage truly DB and save their M .... but even if they do not, and there are a few vets here who fall under that category ... the lessons they learned have helped them with the second M, while the WAS might be on marriage 2, 3, 4 .. who knows.

For me, DB not only saved me .. but I honestly am one of the few who might just walk through this mess and save my M, almost 2 years of separation, but my W and I are slowly working on our M. I will tell you with out hesitation ... you have to save yourself first, without that, my W and her A would have been history but she would have kept looking for a better option, it took alot of work and a TON of help from the wonderful people on this board, I learned more from others threads and advice they recieved than I did on my own sitch/thread

I will steal a line from Retrouvaille ...and apply it to DB, Try DB, go through the process.... do the work, I mean really do the work ... and if you do not like the results you can have your old relationship back.

My advice , listen, do the work, take the advice, be patient ... your M did not dissolve in a month, nor will you save it that quickly.