Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Who was in the tunnel anyways?

Hey Luke, in the vein of keeping it real with you..I wanted to ask you something. What do you want? Don't answer quickly. Think about it.

Secondly, I get the boundary setting. I happen to think boundaries are healthy, but, here's the thing about them - they have to be to protect you. They cant be a threat or a punishment. Now I am not saying that's what you are doing because I don't mindread (see what I did there? - ;)).

They have to be clear and concise and you have to mean it. If the boundary is crossed, you have to be ready to die on that hill...otherwise it is just a threat, ya know?

So, what is the boundary exactly? What has to happen that will cause you to walk away completely and finally because that's what you are saying?

Isn't it fun, the relationship you and I have?

uR ... R meaning real as usual

This is to protect me, to protect myself from ever being blindsided. If I were out to punish I would pull the No OM2 as 'friends' card ... which she was worried about (Past experience about 13 years after.)

This was not/has not been out of the blue, when she first approached me and wanted to work on the M, the "I will do anything" I had a few non-negotiables and I even suggested she had 5 so we could be open and on the same page.

1- NC OM
2- MC
3- No more lies/deceit/secret lives
4- I will not go back to the loveless/sexless M (But understand this one takes time ... and we have been working on this area slowly)
5- Full Transparency

When we discussed it I told her that secrets would not work out for me, and she did ask "are you done you will divorce me then" I told her yes, if Open/Honestly and no secrets was a deal breaker for her it was not something I was willing to go forward with from this point on ... we both had secrets for the tail end of M-1.0 and look where it landed us, I would not make that same mistake twice. She did tell me it was not a deal breaker so we seemed to at the least agree on that .... though she did pout a bit yesterday about it, I took the 'get over it or don't' route and figured either way I was going to be fine .... it is that important to me.

I should share .. this was not a spur of the moment discussion for me, it had been building for some time. I was just looking for the right time/place to address it without letting emotions cloud things for me. I honestly thought it would wait another 2 weeks ... our next Post session this weekend is about Trust and Forgiveness ... (yes I look ahead) so I thought get into that, we do the homework and I would have a chance to share how I feel then ... turns out This was just as good a time to discuss it as any and I felt I did so from a good place, firm but not punitive as you mentioned.

The irony of this all .. .I thought I would be more worried about OM trying to weasel back in, but I'm not ... I did touch on this with her asking what would happen if he did contact her and she said "NO" right off the bat and said she would delete it ... I pointed out this was not what I wanted, I want her to tell me about it and not hide things .... it still feels MLCish, like a teen hiding things just because that's what they have done, I told her I would be more upset about that then the actual act. Seemed to get my point across when I used a S scenario as an example.


Things seemed to have mellowed out, W TM some pics of her new suit for the interview tomorrow, offered to pick up S so we can meet up for the beach walk we have put off for a few days .... she also wants a friendly bet (Loser buys an expensive dinner) to see who can drop body fat .... I think I will win if I could just channel that effective BD-Diet that really worked so well.

I am gonna push just a bit more...cuz I can and because I care...:).

I am going to assume you are thinking over the first part of my post about what you want.

Luke, it seems to me that she already broke that boundary. She has been deleting the texts. That's what I mean about setting them and enforcing them, ya know?

How's Cali doing? I mean really. You good? Deep down? You know what I mean?

uR

I am still thinking about it ... and honestly I know what I want, but a BIG part of what I want deals with more work I need to do on ME. I will come back and explain that further in a bit.

The deleting Text/boundary cross ... yes she crossed that boundary, most likely she probably thought she could easily do this or maybe she was testing to see how serious I was about it ... she received both of those answers Sunday. It stemmed back to me over reacting towards a 'friend' she had years ago who I felt crossed a line and she smartly is using that in this situation, I was clear about it ... time will tell if she decides to test me on that again. She is not used to me 'setting rules' I did expect a test or two here. I have access to all the devices, she does not even hide the phone as she has done in the past, I have the passwords and all that. I do hope she understood its not about control, but about being open and honest ... something we lacked .. both of us... for the past 5 or so years I feel ... most likely right about the time when the 'smart phones' became portable little computers.

I promised myself to at the least finish the post sessions, about 6-8 more weeks I think of those before I make any 'final' decisions. There is alot of "I am getting used to the new you" going on ....... there is definitely a new her too, some new things she brought with her from the crisis ... and some of the old familiar stuff. She is currently doing the mirror work, I see her putting in that effort and at the same time she is trying to work on the M, knowing the amount of work I did .. and still have left to do I can appreciate how hard it has to be to juggle both ... plus throw in some of that MLC fog ... well .. it helps me be a bit more patient I suppose.

I have noticed I have taken more of a leadership role, I set the tone for dinner (No TV/Phones), bed time for S (Insisting W helps rather than me putting S down while she watches netflix on the iPad), prayers, even last night as the new tradition we have been doing is reading one of S's books .. we all take turns and read 2 pages ... W grabbed her phone and I reminded her .. no electronics during 'family' time .. at first she looked like she got caught with her hand in a cookie jar but then softly smiled and put the phone away. I also noticed that the little moments where W might say something I would normally shrug off .. I will call her on it... not in a reaction/upset kind of way but I will either ask her to explain it, or point out what she said was not appropriate.

As far as how am I ... uR .. wont lie .. I am good, deep down good... no turmoil, no second guessing, even have started setting goals for myself... something I have never done (These goals are just 'me' type things .. nothing to do with W, S or the M). At this moment I feel firmly planted, strangely un-phased by things as I seemed to have taken a 'deal with it as it comes' approach. I am at peace with how far I've come, and the direction I am heading. I continue to focus more on me, growing still ... testing myself and my resolve.

Sure I would like the M to work out but I also realize how much work is involved, how hard it is ... there are many issues and things for us to address, but its so much we seem to only take a little nibble here and there .. its a slow process and you all know my passion for timetables and wanting results now hangs on me like a 4th graders backpack. But I am doing well, when W gets upset I let her be upset ... no need to fix it , if she wants to talk it out thats fine .. otherwise she can sort it out solo .. this has turned out to work, she pouted for a day and a half about the "No Secrets" reminder and seemed to finally come out of it and was pursuing me last night.

I do think after this weekend I will have to look again to ensure the boundary is infact being honored or I will be moving back into my place and going about my life while she sorts things out for herself. Till then its the trust but verify approach and I am not going to waste much more thought about it.

Ok .. freshly back from the DMV

What I want:

I thought about this a bit and had to check myself from listing things I want that included others ... because at the root of what I want is more about ME, and nothing to do with anyone else ... if someone would like to be a part of my life thats one thing .. but what I really want is not affected by that.

What I want, in the pure sense is to be happy. Up till BD I thought I was ... but looking back I really wasn't. I mistakenly looked to others for what I felt were 'my needs' to be filled. Not that I ever relied on anyone for my happiness thankfully ... but I did think others could fill needs that in fact were just 'wants' ... learning this has impacted me. My happiness is centered around how I feel about myself, and pre-BD I did not feel good about me, on the outside I appeared happy when I had to but it was a mask, deep down I was miserable, alone, unfulfilled and a few other dark feelings. This crisis I finally/thankfully hit rock bottom and realized I have this gift ... this life to live regardless of what people around me do ... regardless of how close to my inner circles they may be ... I was dependent on them and that was not living MY life.... I was meerely a supporting actor in theirs.

So my want .. To play lead, star in my own movie for a change ... which I have been doing, if there are a few people who would like guest appearances, supporting roles .. and can do so without trying to take over MY movie .. thats great ... but it is now my movie , one I regret not taking charge of long ago but am thankful for this chance to do so now.

I have several things going for me now that I never had before.. and this crisis granted me the second chance at life. I do not intend to waste it, I would like my M to be salvaged, for my W and I to work on a better relationship, for us both to grow individually, to watch my S grow up into the fine young man I have hopes to witness as long as God graces me to, to experience more of what life has to offer knowing how I used to live it was passing me by.

I guess all ^^^ is a long way to say I just want to be happy uR, and I think I have found it within, sure there are some bad days .. trying days .. but life will always have those. I look forward to living a bit more every day ... excited with the changes that continue to take place. Maybe my M one day will reflect this outlook ... maybe not .. regardless I will be ok, and happy that I have gone about this as best as I could. As of now .. this moment I am happy.

Just going to babble a bit

I think I have started this 2-3 times and have either been interrupted or decided to just nuke it.

So things are still progressing with the W and the attempt at rebuilding.

We discussed the 'Friend' a bit last night. Came up in a separate conversation where I had stated that W and I tend to discuss things but never really settle on an answer so it just 'sits' and is never actually resolved, something our old M was famous for .... I listed some past examples then she asked for a current one ... and I brought up the 'Friend'. Apparently W had told him about the Full-Transparency and now he feels a touch weird and 'afraid' to make contact with W knowing I have full access and knowing all about the A .. he does not want the OM label nor a H who is trying to repair the M upset with him. (Smart fella as far as I am concerned). I again stated I did not want to disrupt a friendship, however reading a book W suggested I pointed out this was a good chance for us to "define my expectations"

I basically told her the open and honest boundary was a building block for me, to start to rebuild our trust that was completely destroyed .. this goes both ways, just as the Full Transparency. It did get a bit heated but long story short I think we ironed some things out ... the 'taking a lunch/dinner' with the person of opposite sex topic was center stage ... and how we agreed prior to our issues (MLC) this was never a concern .. it does need to be addressed, I recommended a 'heads up' approach, not asking for permission but a "I am going to Salad-Sammy's for lunch with X tomorrow" just to avoid any miscommunications, or misunderstandings as I told her if I got word she was at lunch with some guy and I did not find out about it from her first .. there would be a misunderstanding, something I would prefer to avoid ... revisited the OPEN/HONEST area again ... seems talking things out this way worked well.

There was a point during all this that things got a bit heated. W spewed out something along the lines of her and I met young and never experienced other people (Ummmm that 'A' elephant winked at me) I got a bit hot after that line and formally apologized to her for being faithful for 25 years. She backed way down and told me I never had to apologize for that.

I was expecting to grab my stuff a few times during all this, but we talked through it ... put S to bed and actually talked about good/positive things in bed (something her IC has made a staple ... no bad vibes/fights in the bedroom) She woke me up with a kiss on the cheek and a back rub, I had to figure out WhereTF I was for a second ...lol.

I have been doing well, remaining calm and seeing she really is trying ... knowing those tests she pulled on me here and there, I have done the same, not thinking about it but yeah ... I have tested too. I also have been more aware of not punishing her constantly for the A, though at times ... yeah ... its always there. I want to move past that, her place is full of triggers I am slowly processing through .. one at a time. And just when I think .. ok not bad .. a new one pops up.
I had told her about 3 weeks ago to remove anything OM related, even told her if there was some nighty she bought for him it needed to go. I had left with S to go swimming and when I returned she told me everything was gone. I noticed the box of condoms she hid in a box in the closet was no longer there ... so I felt a bit at ease, other than the Christmas tree he bought that she admitted is to heavy for her to move .. I will gladly dispose of that myself.
This morning I was ironing my shirt ... had to move a box to plug in the iron ...in the way A little Victoria secret bag, empty but had the receipt dated Nov14 ... about 5 items .. 4 thongs, yeah ... I used to ask her to wear those for me but she refused. So I didn't get mad ... I simply took the bag and tossed it in the bathroom trash. Pretty sure she will see it but its not something I feel we need to discuss, in the past .. no good can come of it.

We actually are communicating better, there are far more "I feel" and "I" statements going on rather that "Let me tell you something about you that YOU don't know" accusations. She woke early and we took a nice walk together. She is working on being more affectionate ... however the STD thing is definitely a roadblock, however for me its more about the A and that demon I am still trying to get over. Slowly ... its getting better.

Our 3rd Post session this week, one I am seriously looking forward to, and it couldn't come at a better time ... Forgiveness and Trust.

As far as me .. GAL still going on, Softball will start up in a few weeks and Football is in full effect, I played 3 games last Sunday and was so sore for 2 days it wasn't even funny. Work is good, have a lot of side projects going on. I have been tending to the new plants we planted, cooking, taking walks and honestly just enjoying the beauty that God has surrounded me with .. I am truly blessed.

Hope you all are well.

Hey Cali. Dropped in to say hello. Hello.

Seems things are moving along. I think it's important that you answered uR's question about what you want. It's important to know that. To live it. And it leads to the next question - what does your W want from your perspective? I can guess, but it seems a good time to ask.

Keep in mind, this is a point in time question. What I mean is, what your W wants right now may not be as fully developed as what you want. And of course, the essence of a relationship is to grow (change) together. Knowing the above answer is really just a way of seeing the synergies and areas to work on. Because a relationship is about coming together and working through things.

From what I can see, you are both working through things. It seems to be picking up speed, which is nice to hear and see. You also seem to be working through the past, but I have to say its a good sign to see you don't want to keep living there. That's encouraging.

I point that out because you still want to go faster by the look of it, no? And who wouldn't? But you seem to be right where you need to be to learn what you need to learn. All three of you.

I'm also struck by some of the posts and how easy it would be to become a despot of a man in this situation. To make her "pay" for the past under the guise of rebuilding trust. That would be an easy step where you are right now. Be watchful of that.

I still think that no matter what comes next, you are growing and learning all about yourself. You have the gift of learning about her and growing with her. That's incredibly valuable, Cali. Don't lose sight of that

Best of luck with what comes next. There will be more challenges, but you seem to have the tools to deal with them. I suspect she is quickly building the same although she seems to have farther to go. That's really nice to see her put that effort into her life and yours.

Peace,
AJ

From my perspective and what I gather from our discussions, she wants her health more than anything. Ironically that was one of the top reasons she left as she felt at the time with the stress our M created she would never be healthy.
I learned as a 'fixer' I could not do much for her health, but what I can do is just be there for comfort, she seems to want that, stability more than anything after this hurricane has passed .... the past weeks seems to be more evident as I have been asked "are you going to leave me" more than once. Pretty sure this is coming from a mixture of my non-negotiables that she did try to test, and the fact I am still a bit detached and allowing her to do her own work.



Good point, and one I have noticed. She is still a bit 'hungover' I think would be the best way to describe it. However very concerned about where I am, what I am thinking .. constantly temp checking making sure I am going into this weekends Post session with an open mind.


Oh I admit completely I want it to speed up ... like leaving a town where you just got your a$$ whooped ... can not get through the gears fast enough.... but it just does not work that way and I know it.

As far as the past.. might as well share here. I have thought about it a bit. I am not so much upset with the emotional part of the A .. its the physical aspect and the 'gift' he left behind which has been a bit of a road block. I attribute my struggles with it being my LL, and this last book I read lists me as a 'Physical" so I equate 'Love' that way .. all the way to my core, so for me the very act of sex is the most intense connection I feel ... just processing through this and understanding why it still hurts and currently has me 'stuck' a bit has helped. Not sure if ^^^ makes sense to anyone but its where I am at.



Yeah, this one is tricky. When things are going well or maybe just a little tense I do not think about it. I had thought about the current 'hot button' topic of her 'friend' in this regard. I had told her no more secrets ... so last night I check the phone and everything was there, a coupld calls to the fellow. Am I happy she talks to him ... honestly no not really. BUT .... I took a walk and thought about it, she did as I asked and stopped deleting the calls, then I thought ... she could have easily just gone from OM1 to this guy had she wanted to, he has been single for a bit. But, she chose me and our M and has been discussing with him (from what she told me) that she is working on our M. So I let it go ... could have easily went Punisher mode and said "Him or me" and could have forced that issue ... but for what? To win? Win what?

Truth is .. do I ever want to go through this again? NO ... could I stop it if she chose that path ... *shrug* only by doing my part and working constantly on the M, you know .. the one I made mistakes with the first time around. This epiphany lifted a weight off.




AJ ... as always you get me thinking and I always end up further down the road because of it .. for all your help in my sitch I am forever grateful ... one day I am going to get you sloppy drunk and have a circus monkey have his way with you.

I think I need this epiphany. I can see how it would be helpful. I do see this logically in my situation... but to get to the point where I let go of my perceived control is a difficult step. I was never a jealous person before the A... but now I look at any new fb friends that H adds & question what the motives are behind that add. It is totally not who I have ever been ... and not who I want to be... but tells me I still need to heal from the A, I suppose.

I've read up on your last 3 threads & I am glad to read about all the progress you both have made. I admire your strength in going through such a tough and long journey!

Hope I have read yours a bit .. and posted. Thing is you are real fresh with the A and all that, it takes time ... and know this .. those emotions all cycle in waves, intensity, durations .. its not fun and by far one of the hardest things I think a person can go through. I thought I was done with it till I had to revisit all that stuff as we continue to work thigns out ... it does get better ... do not beat yourself up for being upset as you are still in the thick of it.

My last 3 threads ...ughhh... I have a ton ...lol but honestly in your case those threads were after my W dropped the A with NC of OM, went full transparency and completely committed to working on the M. I am not sure you are there yet.