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Ok, so I have been thinking about my needs, but my problem is that all of them are going to come off as pressure to my MLCer and I worry that I am going to say the wrong thing. It is also more than needs, especially with the first two as those choices are only further damaging our R. Here goes my outline of convo:

If we are going to continue to live in the same house together, I really need some things to change.

1. Silent treatment: I need you to please stop giving me the silent treatment and acting like I don' t exist. It is extremely hurtful and disrespectful to be treated this way after being with you for 14 years. I have already apologized for my past behavior and do not feel I have done anything to warrant this and it only further hurts our relationship. It is not healthy environment for me.

2. Open Marriage: I have already told you that I cannot live in an open marriage and I know your A is still going on, but you say it is not. If you are going to stay living here, I need you to start being transparent and prove to me that there is no affair. You can do this my giving me access to you email and text messages. I also need you to send an email of no contact to the OW. If you cannot do this, then I cannot have you live in our marital home. I know the man you are and trust that you will do the right thing. This was from DB coach).

3. House and Dog: I know you are very busy with work, as am I. But, I feel like you are expecting me to entirely take care of the house and dog and this is wearing on me. If you are going to staying living here than you should contribute to both so that all of the responsibility does not rely on me.

4. Communication about work travel: We need to coordinate work travel so that we can assure that the dog is taken care of. I have been fully running my works trips and sharing details with you, but you are not doing the same. Therefore, I have to ask and I find it frustrating when we cannot communicate on this simple level.

I really need your help in all of these areas if we are going to continue to live together and have a respectful relationship.

Thoughts? How much do I share with him tonight? Better via text/email or phone conversation? I want to have most of it via face to face.

Also, on multiple occasions I have gotten the sense that my H is worried that I am giving up and actually going to file for D. Even with everything he is doing, I really do not think he really wants to D. I think he is afraid and hurt, but not sure how to get past both and forgive. So much of this is issues within him, but he wants to entirely blame me.

I've tossed around some thoughts on your 4 thorns. So, here are some suggestions and you can tweak them to your liking or use what you posted. You need to give him some time to think about them and not come off sounding like a demanding individual. If you give him some leeway to come up with some suggestions, he might be more receptive to working w/you.

1. I have noticed that you have been giving me the silent treatment for a while. Is there something that I have done to create this? Would it be possible for us to communicate better when we are both home? I have repeatedly apologized for my past behavior and had hoped that we could move past this and communicate more openly now. The continued lack of communication isn't helping us figure things out w/respect to our current relationship. Do you have any suggestions on how we can communicate better?

2. My thoughts on an open marriage remain the same, I cannot participate in an open marriage. In order for our relationship to continue moving forward, if the affair is still going on, you will need to send the OW an email advising her that you no longer wish to have any contact w/her. If we are going to continue to live together, you will need to be transparent with respect to your electronic devices. This means allowing me to have access to your cell phone and email account. I know the man that you've always been and I trust that you will do the right thing in providing me with the reassurances that the ow is no longer a part of your life.

3. We are both busy with work, however, the responsibilities of the home and the dog have fallen on me completely lately. Since we both live under the same roof, would it be possible for you to share in the responsibilities such as caring for the house and dog? What are your thoughts on this? (You may need to be explain what you want him to do around the home.)

4. Since we both do a lot of work travel, we need to coordinate our work travel better so that we can be sure that the dog is taken care. I realize that there are going to be times trips which may come up unexpectedly, but I would like to see if we can do a better job of sharing this type of information. Maybe we can do a calendar and share it so that we both have the information readily available when scheduling upcoming trips. What are your thoughts on this?

In order for us to continue living under the same roof, we need have better communication and share in the responsibilities that come w/a home and our dog. How best can we do this so that each party shares equally in the responsibilities?

I think that this is something that needs to be discussed in person and not over the phone or text. You can list the topics that you want to discuss, but don't go into a lot of detail until you sit down and do this face to face.

Thank you, Job. I really appreciate your care to my situation and your advice means a great deal to me. I am not sure what is going on, but all of a sudden I feel like my emotions are at an extreme. Which is hard on me because it is not in my nature to be so over emotional. I think it is because I am feeling so disconnected from my H and fear that the more that grows, the harder it will be for it to be repaired. Again, I am fearing letting go and I feel like this entire thing is out of my control. So I clearly am not detached enough.

In your opinion am I being unreasonable with any of these requests and will any of it do more harm than help? The only one I am hesitant to discuss is the A as bringing its up in the past has gotten me know nowhere. I think it is actually the lying that is getting to me more than the A itself.

It is just hard cohabiting with an MLCer. How long did you live with yours? To answer your question from earlier, I really don't want him to move out, but at the same time, I want a healthy living space. I know this time is about working on me, but find it hard when the rollercoaster is running in my home. I am just feeling very overwhelmed by the situation lately. I know that I need patience and to focus on today, but I do get panic attacks/anxiety by the thought of this talking years to sort out.

Thank you, again. I be starting my next thread in the MLC section.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself. Letting go doesn't mean that you are giving up. It means that you are detaching and moving forward w/your life and allowing God, time and space to work on your h. Letting go is also giving yourself the gift of time and space and to rediscover the person that you once were and to do the things that you've not been able to do for many years.

We all have had the fear of disconnection, but in his world, time is very, very slow and he is expecting you to be right where he left you. He's not able to recognize that time doesn't stand still and things can change on a dime. You can only control you, your emotions and what you do for yourself. You have no control over him, what he does or thinks. Unfortunately, you have to learn to be patient and trust in DBing. I do want to point out that DBing is not just to help you reconcile, but it is to help you in your every day dealings w/people and it teaches you how to react and/or not react to behaviors, actions of statements of others.

The only two that I feel that are truly safe to discuss at this time are numbers 3 and 4. As we often point out, discussions about relationships, affairs, do not go over well w/the wayward spouses. I do not think your h is at the point of having a civil conversation about it.

As for the silent treatment, many of them do this. It is a passive way of "punishing us" for whatever reason. The best thing to do is ignore the behavior. I know it gripes you to no end and do not apologize again for whatever happened previously. You've already done it once and that is enough. When children misbehave and are on the flooring screaming bloody murder, the best way to get them to cease the behavior is to ignore them. The silent treatment could very well be a way to annoy you so that you start a conversation about it and then it escalates to a heated discussion. For now, I would most certainly leave no. 1 on the stove to cook a bit longer.

Also, I want to point out that lying is one of the sins of the crisis person. If their lips are moving, they lie and sometimes they lie so much that they begin to believe their own lies. Take what he says w/a grain of salt.

If you don't want him to move out, they don't give him the idea to do so. Maybe he's hoping that you'll tell him to leave to make it look like you are the bad guy here. If he must leave, let him do it on his own, if you can stand it for a while longer.

My xh left came back, lived at home 7 months and he continued to threaten throughout the 7 months of leaving. So one day, I had enough and came home from work and told him that it was time for him to leave. He sat on the couch and cried like a baby, but I had had enough and didn't change my mind. He finally got himself together and left a week or so later and never returned. The walking on eggshells was stressful. The mood swings, the lying, being sneaky, gaslighting and the threats finally did me in. After he left, my home became more peaceful and my cat stopped losing his hair from all of the tension and stress in the home.

You will need to dig for more patience. I know it's difficult to ignore them when they are under the same roof, but you will need to find a way to view him as a visitor from another country who has no ties to you.

If you keep you conversation on "safe" subjects, you will be okay. The one thing that concerns me is that the conversations may start out okay, but then they go downhill because he starts baiting you and then come back at him. Change this dynamic. When he baits you, continue your conversation as if you didn't hear him doing it or better yet, state "h, when you are calmer and ready to continue the conversation, I will be happy to do so" and then end the conversation w/goodbye or have a nice evening and hang up the phone. I have found that when they start that baiting stuff, that changing the subject completely will stop them in their tracks because it throws them for a loop.

You will know when you've had enough...but it's not today.

I have a different take on a few things. I understand silent treatment is considered 'emotional abuse' and is viewed as a way to punish or manipulate. I can tell you I went 6 months at the end of our M without speaking to my wife for a different reason. Let me try to explain...the same way you feel 'done'...the same way job describes having had enough...that's how I felt. The only difference is I didn't want a D, I didn't want to leave. I just couldn't beat my head against the wall. I felt like for years I tried EVERY. POSSIBLE. WAY. to get through to STBX that what was going on wasn't ok with me. I was so frustrated with having my voice fall on deaf ears I couldn't speak to her because I would only feel rejected, disappointed, and exasperated.

The only reason I didn't leave is because I would never initiate a D, and I felt maybe in 12 months things would be different, or eventually STBX would realize that things weren't working for me. Instead she labelled me an abusive A-hole and initiated the D. Of course with what I've learned in the last year I would've handled many things differently. But I am only pointing out that I'm not a terrible person, have grown, and have a lot to offer in a future M. I might catch hell for saying this but I'd encourage you to lose the abusive label and seriously consider the possibility that he's still got potential merit as a spouse and a human being and that you simply haven't heard him as well as you think. No, I'm not holding you accountable for his behavior or saying it's alright...just that there's something you're missing here. I don't post often on your thread but I've read every post since you've joined and am rooting you on, and really feel this is the case.

I agree you don't need to apologize again, or take the blame for his behavior...but I agree that blaming or attacking him and issuing ultimatums won't be effective towards anything. What I would recommend (and more to the point what would've worked with ME) is saying something like:

"H, I learned something that I'm not sure is true or not or whether it applies in this situation. See, most of what I read about total breakdowns of communication (not calling it silent treatment) are quick to label it as manipulation or abuse, but I really don't feel like that's who you are or what your motive is, so I had been a bit confused. But one thing I have been thinking more is that it might just be that I haven't been hearing some of the things you've told me and that you feel defeated trying to talk about it anymore because it's too frustrating and disappointing when it feels like I dismiss or minimize what you're saying. Can you tell me if I'm on the right track? Whatever happens in the future, I truly would like to understand better what message I've missed. I realize this is asking for a lot at this point because you probably feel like I already know and you've said it a million times, and you're tired of having what feels like a dead end conversation...but while I can't promise to agree to anything you say or ask, I do promise that I will listen to everything you say and you won't have to repeat it ever again. Is that fair?"

Then I would follow up with 2 points:

1. Ask if you can record the conversation. It might be helpful to him to see you take it that seriously, and to know that you'll not only hear him in the moment, but will keep it and reflect on it at your leisure.

2. Take it damn seriously. I'm sure your natural reaction will be that you've changed that, that he's wrong to feel that way, that it's not that big of a deal, that it hasn't been an issue for years, that he would see that it changed if he'd give you a chance, that he can't expect it to change while he's doing A/B/C...etc. But if you are going to respond that way you might as well file. I know you feel you're ready to give an ultimatum. Remember, when I was in that spot I pretty much felt I already had issued an ultimatum myself and she decided divorce was easier than hearing me. And while my STBX was the one that filed, I am relieved for the opportunity to have a partner that will potentially hear what I have to say in the future.

Whether or not my perspective on this is agreeable to the boards or not I don't know, but I can't help but think this approach might go a lot further to break the silence than telling him it's abusive and asking it to stop, or even condescending to him that there's opportunity to improve communication (clearly). Might as well address the reason BEHIND the communication issue in a way that works for him, which, as usual, is to own as much as you can. That you can control.

Good luck BW and have faith.

P.S...he's probably been rehearsing things he wished he could say to you in his mind for the last month and is dying to gush it out. Get ready for a spew...but then realize that if he is still willing to spew he's telling you he deep down hopes you can hear him and bridge some of the chasm between you too. He's asking you to do all the bridging because he's hurt, defeated, and doesn't know how to do more. One of you has to lead this M. If you can't do it then you can't really be mad that he couldn't either.

Ok, so apparently I missed my window of opportunity to talk to H. I tried call him an no answer. So, sent TM saying I was trying to reach him because I thought he wanted to chat.

H: No,, you thought I wanted to chat tonight. Nevermind.
M: Was to aviod high emotions yesterday. Want nice convo. Sorry you are so angry.

H: Don't tell me I am angry.

You cannot win with an MLCer.

Both of his texts translate to "you are misunderstanding me"

I don't see MLC. I see misunderstood. After putting that long post together and seeing this response I am starting to know how he feels.

I have faith you can handle your sitch, so I'll ease off on the 2x4. It just seems so clear to me I couldn't help myself. I truly feel it is in your hands to save or lose this M.

Zues, I am glad you think you understand my H, because I clearly don't and I am just growing more and more frustrated than anything. I feel like nothing I do or say is right with him and he probably thinks the same about me. I am not ready to give him ultimatiums. I just want to be on better speaking terms with H. I honestly cannot stand not talking with him. I thought I had heard all of his issues and frustrations with M and me and I thought/ think that he can't see that I get it because of A. But maybe I am just not hearing something.

I get what you are saying in you long post. What part of it do you think I should put in text to let him know what I want to discuss in person this weekend?

I was thinking the following:

Hi H,

I was hoping to chat with you via phone to give you a heads up about what I want to discuss with you in person this weekend. Mostly, I am frustrated with our current level of communication. It pains me to not be on better speaking terms with you. I think maybe you are feeling defeated in this entire situation and feeling like I have been minimizing or dismissing your concerns, and it is causing you to shut down. So, I am hoping to better understand what I am not getting. The other things are just logistical things. I did not mean to stress you out by asking to sit down and chat.


Thoughts?

Thanks for your input and rooting me on. It was nice to read that.

Job, thanks for your suggestions. I think I have decided to bring up number 1 (in the way Zues suggested) and 3 and 4.

H says he is not angry, but he sure comes off that way in how is reacts and deals with me. The heart of anger is hurt and pain, so maybe that is why he says he is not angry?! I just don't understand or recognize this person.

I started off on DBing being very empathetic and compassionate towards H, but that waned when A came to light and realized the extent of the lying to me. I suppose I need to look at him doing those things out of the internal pain he has. I need to get back to operating from a place of love again, but it is really hard to find that now.

Feeling very lost and confused about situatio/H these days.