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uR, job .... Thank you.

And yeah .. I am not so stoned I would even think for a second this weekend is the cure-all end all ... and just as you have said .. I am honestly going in as a blank slate hoping to learn and take something out of it and is it funny I have to remind myself W will be there? I know the thing is set up for 'saving marriages' but I am not putting that sort of weight on it to be honest ... more as just a seminar where best case I learn how to communicate better.

That is a good solid point about W not being in the same place, I know that's the case but I can also see how while there it might be easy to get wrapped up in it all and forget my W is still a bit groggy from the MLC bender she has been on the past few years

uR I really appreciate your views and how you can gently smack me

job as always your expereince and insight has been invaluable

Thank you everyone.

Good luck, bud. Thinking of you.

Hope it's a good weekend Cali. Sounds like you are going with a good mindset, and hopefully you'll get something useful from it all...though you are wise indeed already IMHO

Take care xx

Thanks Mighty and Toots


I was just sitting here thinking... last night at the brewery; one of the guys who I do not know well .. well we were about 2 beers in and I realized his son (there at the table) also worked up at HQ. Well this guy gets a text from his xw, turns out she wanted to live her life and experience new things .... dude was definitely NOT a DBr ... was ripping her and badmouthing her infront of his S, "She had her chance this ship sailed" was said as from what I gather she has been attempting to reconcile for the past few months, wanting to move out here and stay with him.

Just crazy as I was sitting there enjoying the beer and thought ... ok another person divorced and here 3 years later the spouse realized to late the grass was not greener, as he showed a TM that had her saying as much. He was pretty bitter, vowed never again, never to marry again and his poor son right there witness to it all .. I felt for him.


So W is up north dropping S off ... the has been pretty TM chatty all day, I have replied here and there ... actually fun type texts about S and him asking birds and bees questions which she said is my duty as she can not handle 'her baby' asking such things (Insert MLC and her missing him growing into a boy comment here .. lol)
Anyways she TM me "Do you want to come over tonight or do you have a hot date?"
I replied that I might score with someone at the laundromat if I am super lucky but after I was open

She did not like the fact I had plans ... not sure if she thought we would hang out as we are NEVER without S ... something we need to figure out for the M as it was always a problem, no us time nor date nights. In time I think .. we are no where near that point just yet.

Thinking of you all and wishing you a good experience this weekend

It's times when you come across a bitter divorced/separated person that makes you appreciate having the friends we have here and having taken the path we took. I dont think it's a coincidence either

Have been reading your posts, CaliGuy. Interested in hearing about the Retrouvaille weekend you and your W will be going to. Please keep us posted so we can learn if Retrouvaille is also for us. Thank you.

M ... Thank you, yeah at this stage in life if you have never come across "Divorce Bitter" you might be a little sheltered and I would rather put in a few years of work than to ever be that person .. regardless if I am D or not .. I do know I will not be bitter thank goodness.

Update/Journaling as I have some things in my head to purge.

After work I went home and loaded up my laundry. I thought ... I have a few hours to kill ... I will call mom. I have not shared much about my parents here ... in the short I was close with my father, closer as time went on (We had a fall out when I joined the military but grew closer and closer from that point on) Lost my dad in 2012 and did not take that well, I am convinced W was in MLC back then. Anyways so I am talking to my mom, telling her about the weekend ... explaining MLC for dummies so to speak. Now my mother is an alcoholic, and throughout the talk I realize .. crap .. she is drinking ... so she starts sharing past stuff and it hits me, some anger, a warp back to my childhood ... when I discovered my mother cheated on my father. I never really respected my mom because of that and to this day ... yeah she is my mom .. but there is a disconnect there, I am the oldest out of 3 and the only one who knows. My father found out .. he stayed ... is this why I've hung on for so long?... because I learned this??? After the call I did have a bit of anger towards W but knew that was misplaced ... went for a long walk and just thought things out realizing it had little to do with me, but I know I came away with more respect for my father for sticking around and not destroying the family when he had every right to, and realizing at that time my dad was gone alot for work, mom ... most likely lonely and going nuts with 3 kids found a temporary fix for needs that were abandoned at the time.

So .. yeah .. dealing with childhood stuff that has been boxed up ... I feel this strange change as of late, good changes ... even before this episode .... 2 years ago I would be sitting on the couch watching ESPN .... now I am out walking looking at the color of trees with a bounce in my step thankful for everyday I get to make improvements on myself.

I went home and cleaned up a bit, put away my things, W TM asking if I was coming over as she just got home. I was on the fence but figured I would atleast drop the dog off. So I jump in the shower, walk the dog .. then take him over. She greeted me with a nice smile .. was a little awkward at first without S there .... he is ALWAYS with one of us ... just her and I ... ALONE. She invited me in, offered me dinner but I told her I was not hungry ... we small talked a bit then she asked if I would watch a movie with her. Was a good movie and during there was little bouts of playfulness between us, like old times ... was just nice to relax and be myself and see some sorts of the old W in her eyes. She started looking tired as was I so I told her I was going to get going home ... she grabbed my hand and asked if I was going to go to bed .. I said yeah I think so ... then she said 'Ok lets go to bed'. Took me by suprise but did not feel strange so I went with it. We got ready for bed and laid down, thankfully I have beat down the OM/A in my bed thing as I gave it little thought ... in bed we had about 2 hours of pillow talk. She had asked if I seen a change in her in the past month ... not sure if she is doing something and feels its helping or what but I told her I have, I have seen changes in the past few months.
She asked if I was nervous about the weekend, I shared last week I think I was .. but now I am just going in with an open mind and look to get out what I can. We talked about faith ... some of her family.. work ... she was trying to get out of me what I make $$$ wise now and I told her it was none of her business in a playful way, she said "I am still your wife" I told her "One could argue that" I was light and joking around but I thought about her saying that ... first time in a long time she has admitted she is my wife, it wasn't like it felt good or bad .. just a 'huh' moment. She pressed on the $$ thing and I told her I want a woman who wants me for me, the $$ should not matter one bit. I was rewarded with a playful punch in the ribs and a 'fine'. Finally Chatty Kathy stopped and I went to sleep ... Physical touch is my LL but I held back even putting an arm on her ... push-pull and knowing the dance I stayed on my side and slept. She woke up a few times ... even grabbed my arm and pulled it over her.

I woke up early and took the dog out for his morning walk, during this time I often have my conversations with God ... thanking him ... especially for how far he has brought me. This will be my last update till most likely Monday after we attend Retrouvaille .... no expectations ... in fact I am just more curious to see W reactions during and after .. knowing pressure is a trigger for the MLC I am curious to see if she feels any and how she will react to the entire thing.

Hope you gain something from Retrouvaille, good luck.

Ok so I have been reading on the boards for a little bit. I am still processing the weekend at Retrouvaille ... all I can really say is WOW. and ... yeah I mean WOW.

You all know how long winded I can be, well .. I know how long winded I can be ... and I could at this point easily start a thread, and get to 100 posts right now with all the things I feel, experienced, learned over this weekend.

I am sure I'll share much .. anything anyone wants to know .. but there are a few key points I really wanted to share with you all.

I am on the fence about giving a full update, it would be a long read, so I am going to think about that a bit but I will say I went into the weekend open minded ... but like all thigns you think you kind of know what to expect and after Friday night I thought ... hmmm ... kind of low key and very anti-climatic ... nothing juicy, no real good stuff .. very generalized basic BLEH. Saturday morning more of the same, even W and I talked about it and we were thinking .. ok .. not what we thought .. this may have been a mistake ... just then as we went to the next presentation they basically went from the small little hammers straight to the tactical Nukes ... from that point on .. like I said ... WOW.

Saturday night ... have to share this with you all .. The priest who was there the entire time shared a few books that he found were good, pro marriage, the FIRST book he suggested was DB and DR from MWD, he even went on to say he had been doing Retrouvaille for 17 or so years, and on his Tombstone he wanted:

Father Jim
1935-???
Priest
Divorce Buster

You could not have punched a smile off my face ... to add my W was taking notes and wrote the books down as "Must read" ... lips sealed...lol. (Hi honey ... lmao) I doubt she ever finds this forum.

So not to get into the particulars (maybe later ... so much information honestly I learned from my W), but there was a ton of shared, intimate thoughts exchanged between W and I. I found it interesting that in 3 separate areas she mentioned "fog" and various stages of how thick it felt for her, and how and when it was lifting ... the key moment it lifted enough for her to see the path she was on she was about to lose me.

Also ... the STFU smoothies are working ... she mentioned how I am a 200% better listener than I ever was.

There were some times I DB'd ... during the talks of the A ... she wrote to me that she has a hard time calling it an affair, shared with me how ashamed she was, gave an apology, was alot like she read this somewhere ... telling me she knows the A was wrong, knows how deeply she hurt me, admitted to the lies and deceit and hoped one day to earn my forgiveness and trust and accepting this might take years. I did not expect that ... especially reading the MLC'rs rarely do this ... and even more .. I did not expect it as she could have easily written on a different topic as there were like 10 to choose from (I purposely picked a 'safe' one for that assignment)

Another point to note ... I shared Thursday night she wanted me to stay overnight .. was nice and unexpected. Friday night we get to the room after what really was a long day. Get upto the room and there were 2 separate full size beds .. not king not queen .. smaller than my sons bed sized beds. I jumped into the shower after my W got out .. got ready for bed .. exhausted and jumped into bed. W was still getting ready doing .. well whatever it is you ladies do for 20 minutes to get ready to sleep. As I was drifting off W jumps into the bed with me ... I did not expect it nor even think remotely she would want to sleep with me ... but both nights she did.

Last key thing I wanted to share ... the A. we had a discussion about the A and our sex issues. TOUCHY subject for me, as I have shared here ... W and I have not had sex in 3 years leading up to her A ... to what I was told were medical reasons ... part truth there as it is an issue but one that obviously be worked around. We talked about OM some, I basically let her know I considered him a POS, and there was no comparison to me, I knew that .. he was not close to the man I am ... physically sure he is a physical trainer and I let her know if that was what she 'needed' her choice and she could have it. We got past that a bit and talked openly about the sex issue, she admitted she would withhold it as punishment, how she has hang ups about it. Then she told me something, She shared the fog bit again, and said yes she had sex with OM and knows it killed me, she is ashamed but shared that he and her never connected emotionally, she felt more emotionally connected to me even during the heavy fog than with him, she knew he could never fill her needs there like I do.

I have not shared anything about MLC with her, but ^^^^ made me think ... more science project type thinking .. she tried to explain it ... shallow, lost, fog, and empty were the key words she used to describe the past couple years.

Cali,

I was wondering about the Retrouaville getaway and how you guys felt about it.



It goes to show you that all of this NEVER about you. All of that angst is all on us and we're wading through that chit like swimming in molasses.

We all look to you, the LBS, as a beacon that reassures us that you're still there while we're flailing about in those deep, dark waters. I still loved Ms. Wonka throughout my crisis and it was comforting to me to see her there.

If Ms. Wonka was a strong Stander like you, I would have found my way back to her when my fog lifted. Ah well.