Thanks for the reply - at least I am not crazy when I try to put those two together and I get the "My affair has nothing to do with our breakup" line. Jeez. I don't know whether to be insulted because she thinks I am that dumb or if she really truly believes this.
I am in the same boat as you only further along - as my W has been gone for 9 months now. The only positive thing she can say is that I am much better and hands on parent now.
She on the other hand has told me she won't participate with any kids activities, soccer, scouting, etc... I am not sure why other than to not have to run into me. Cali said his W said the same thing but eventually started coming to the games.
GAL activities for today included:
Church Got hair highlighted and cut Gassed up car Target for supplies Shopping for house items Replaced watch battery Ate lunch at the mall Walked dog around the block
Yes, I know they don't sound exciting but for me, doing all of this solo is still taking getting used to. I am outside of my comfort zone and realize that it doesn't kill me. I was going to the movies with a friend but she bailed at the last minute - no problem.
Back to the grind tomorrow - MIL in town - my D6 told me. I won't see her I am sure. She's the one that called me a Viper in an email that I saw. So, I don't think she will want to see me - LOL. Why did she call me a viper? Because I was very upset that my W kept threatening to take the kids away from me and actually filed that on the D papers. So, yes, I am a viper when it comes to maintaining my legal 50% share of my kids time.
You know I have been thinking, I mean really thinking about me, and my kids and what the future holds for us. I honestly don't want my W back as she is now after everything that has gone down. She has single handedly destroyed our family with no remorse. My kids are too little to "get" what she has done but one day they will. I will not run her down to them as they love her and I know that is not healthy for them. I can now see how dysfunctional the relationship really was due to my codependent issues and her narcissism.
W has burned the bridge and we have reached the point of no return. I think she and the circus freak are a good match and truly deserve each other. I truly believe she is a narcissist as she has no empathy whatsoever for anything she has done and does not seem to understand what she has done.
I am done, now only legal stuff and paperwork to finalize. I can honestly say to God if I meet him, that I gave it 100% effort. I tried my best.
Wishing you the best HD. I haven't "known" you that long, but I see you fighting the good fight. You know what's best for you and the kids. There's no shame in giving all you have and it turning out to not be enough.
I returned a phone call from a voice message she left. She is really wanting me to call off my Lawyer and return to mediation. She said she can't afford it and doesn't want to be bushwacked. (Oh the irony). I said oh, kind of like when you bushwacked me? She replied, yes, you would use it as a punishment wouldn't you? I replied, that is not my business, I don't punish anyone or decide on people's fate. She said we would be making a big mistake if we used lawyers. She said if I insisted on a lawyer then give her a couple of months to save up for one as she is broke right now and she doesn't know if she could get a loan from a bank.
I listened and she went on about her perception of our communiction problems. I said that must be really hard for you to feel that way and I can understand how badly that must makes you feel. We talked for abut 45 minutes and came down to some options.
We talked about how she felt neglected and taken for granted and I said I am sorry you felt that way, I wish you had talked to me about it. I said I wish we were not in the situation we were in. She said that her affair was not my fault and had nothing to do with me. She said she begged me for years to pay attention to her, and just love and cherish her. I said Good Lord, I thought that was what I was doing but apparently you did not understand it or I did a very poor job of showing you love.
She said our divorce does not have to be contentious and the current model is not sustainable. She regrets that she hurt me and stepped out like she did but I gave her no choice. I said so you are blaming this affair on me? She replies No, that's not what I meant. There is too much hostility and anger and if we mediate, she would be my biggest cheerleader and we could raise the children in a much better atmosphere. It would be the same only we would not be married.
I said yes, the current model that we have is not working too well, it's really hard and I don't think it is sustainable either and I want what's best for the children too. I think what we are doing now is not the best interest of the kids.
I said - OK - lets lay out some options -
HER Suggest Options
1. Return to mediation and divorce 2. Coparenting counseling to learn to be better co-parents and divorce and we be a happy family.
MY Suggested Options
1. Use lawyers and divorce 2. Return to mediation and divorce 3. Couples Counseling to navigate our way through this and stay the divorce until we can work out the issues. There must not be any third party involved.
She said as couples counseling? I don't want to be married to you. I said this counseling would not necessarily be with the goal of reconcilliaton, and that I don't know what the future will bring for us, but that is my suggestion.
She replied you only value me in the role of wife, and I have value independently of how you see me. I had no reply to that one. (????)
She said even if her AP walked away tomorrow she still would not want to be married to me as we had 20 years of bad communication. I said really? 20 years? She said OK well maybe the last 10. She said we talked about it a lot and I said yes we did and each time we talked about it, we talked it out and settled the issues. She said we never settled any issues just swept them under the carpet.
I said look I agree, the old marriage is dead. I agree with you on that and I do want whats in the best interests of our two children whom we both love so much but I feel that an intact family unit is the best chance they have.
She said OK - I get it, "You call the shots", you won't call off the lawyer unless I agree to couples couseling, that is really sick and typical of you. That is your carrot. You always manipulate and control everything and I won't go back to that. I am not interested in being married to you, I have not asked for that I want to divorce.
I said I am sorry you feel I manipulate and controll you, that was never my intention and if you felt that way, again, I can see why you would be frustrated.
She then states that she does not trust me and I said, I have the same trust issues with you for obvious reasons that why I think counseling would be a good step regardless of the outcome.
She said - well then it looks like we will have to use attorneys then!!
What does the DB community think about this latest volley? Stay the course? I mean, she filed for divorce from me! It's not like my having a Lawyer cancels the divorce process.
So she filed for D....wants you to play along and not worry about protecting yourself...and then blasts you for not participating in that? Hard to believe, huh?
Look, she filed for divorce. You have every right to have an attorney so there is SOMEONE looking out for you. It's not your problem that she can't afford someone for her. I say stand your ground. If it leads to some delay, so be it. She's going to be mad, but it's more that you aren't listening and following her commands than it is about you.
If it were me, I'd try looking at a way to have both mediation and a lawyer. I hate to have you fire your lawyer when you've already invested money. But, I also hate for you to put a judge in charge of decisions for your children and your finances which can leave BOTH sides feeling like they lost, no matter what the judge decides.
Are you not permitted to a session with a mediator if you have an attorney? Anything the two of you agree to in the divorce is one thing less that you hand over to a judge to decide. The judge will think you are both petty since you couldnt agree and he won't even read all the paperwork he gets telling both sides -- he'll skim it.
A mediator is familiar with the local court and the judges and can give you both an idea how a certain arguement *might* end up getting decided by a judge. If, for instance, your W wants to keep all of her retirement and get the house...the mediator might say, "that's not how this usually falls out. The court likes an equitable split of assets and debts."
As you know, there are three elements of divorce: division of assets and debts, financial support for spouse and children, visitation and custody arrangements for minor children.
Any of those three elements that the two of you agree on in mediation is one less thing to hand over to a judge to decide. That also makes it one less thing that a future X will take back to court over and over because they were never happy with the judge's decision.
If you are not comfortable at all with something as official as mediation, you might ask her to jot down some ideas for you that she has of her preferences on division of assets/debts and visitation/custody. (alimony and child support may come down to a calculation that doesn't have to be fought over cuz it's automatic once custody and property division is decided.)
Suppose she wrote down a visitation schedule for the kids that you are totally ok with. Well, that's a HUGE thing that you two no longer need to fight over. That saves a lot of hours of lawyer fees. You could discuss it with your lawyer and then you two could write up just that portion of the split and sign it. One less thing to worry about.
IANAL. Just my thots.
Wishing you well today.
M: 16y 3 adult kids, 2 young kids H filed D May/15, no svc yet Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends? ~ Abe Lincoln WAKE UP. WORK HARD. FORGIVE. REPEAT.
I think you have a huge advantage right now being the only party represented by counsel. She may suggest something she's willing to sign....a visitation agreement or a division of assets agreement....and it might end up having legal ramifications she is unaware of.
For instance, I believe you said at one point that she offered to give you all the property of the marriage if you gave her custody of the kids. I wouldn't recommend that, but it shows how little she comprehends the legal end of this. Once property division is decided on and signed, it's VERY hard to get that overturned later. However, custody and visitation is ALWAYS negotiable and can go back to court again and again. So, theoretically, you could get all the property and the go back to court for joint custody of the kids and win it and take advantage of her lack of knowledge of the law.
Again, I wouldn't recommend that approach, but it's an example of how you are benefitted right now by being able to check things with your lawyer who knows the local courts and local judges and what their habits are on decisions and she does not. It's a huge legal advantage. You will mediate and negotiate from a position of much greater background information than she has.
M: 16y 3 adult kids, 2 young kids H filed D May/15, no svc yet Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends? ~ Abe Lincoln WAKE UP. WORK HARD. FORGIVE. REPEAT.
I wanted to make a separate comment on a different topic in your above posts. Sorry there's so much from me this morning, I was out of town the last three days so I'm catching up.
I very much believe that right now you ARE giving 100% to this process. I agree. You have sacrificed much and endured much emotional pain. I think you've done an amazing job keeping your sanity, your life and your children's lives together in a very difficult situation.
But, I wonder if your efforts are not going in the right direction.
Of course, whatever you choose for your family needs to be your prayerful decision. I do not suppose to know your situation well enough to criticize.
This is only a hypothesis. And only because my heart hurts for you and I want you to have what you want to have. If I understand properly, you want two people who love and respect each other to raise your children together in love and respect. I think that is a very worthy goal worth fighting for.
So, here is my hypothesis: I see you pulling and pulling and pulling on a door handle.....you are giving ALL of your strength to it. You WANT to open the door. No one doubts it. You are straining and sweating and about to keel over from the effort of pulling on the door to get it open. And still it does not open, despite all your sacrifice.
And it's because it's the kind of door you push to open, not pull.
The way I read it, Divorce Busting isn't about winning or getting what we deserve to get or teaching someone a lesson. And of course we are ALL tempted to do those things often in our relationships. It's totally natural and human to act that way.
But, for our children, do we rise above our baser "instincts" and become something more fair, more divine, more forgiving....giving to others more than they deserve...again and again....because WE deserve the benefits of living a life of forgiveness and charity. And because our kids deserve to see us doing it.
I do not mean this in any way as a criticism. You are hurting enough. If I've said anything rude or hurtful, please call me out so I may grovel about it and make it right. I have no desire to increase your pain at this time. But, an advantage of a board like this is the distance strangers have to look at a situation more objectively. I've read your story all in a row and it allows me to see patterns and matrices that you could easily miss being so close to the day to day action.
Instead of working so hard at a fair divorce, perhaps you would be happier and work less hard to pour your efforts into the relationship. Push instead of pulling and the door may open easily.
Where are the small, short term, action oriented goals suggested in Divorce Busting? Even if you end up divorced, these small goals can be a help to co-parenting after divorce. At the very least, you can cleanly look your children in the face on the Christmas eves when they want to stay with you and keep playing with their cousins who are visiting and instead you have to ship them off to your XW so they can spend a boring quiet evening at dinner with the XW's new wife's parents. In those times, you want NO regrets.
I wonder with your story if we can get back to Divorce Busting with short goals, accomplishable in 1-2 weeks. I read a lot of hope in your situation. I truly do. Your W is not at all indifferent.
There is no question that her A is an abysmal affront to you. I completely agree. But, don't we all do repugnant things for the sake of our children? Yes, we do.
And it is very unlikely the current circumstance of your M will be the permanent circumstance. It may be a long road....the Terrible Twos last until they are Four, Teenage mood swings and rebellions last 8+ years.....and an mlc transition can take a LOT of time. Years.
But, in a marriage, years is not a lifetime. It's just a season.
Love and hugs.
M: 16y 3 adult kids, 2 young kids H filed D May/15, no svc yet Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends? ~ Abe Lincoln WAKE UP. WORK HARD. FORGIVE. REPEAT.
She told me today that unless I go to mediation, the children will suffer and this divorce will be contentious. I looked at her very carefully and directly in the eye and said, Let me get this straight, "you have an affair, and then try to take the kids from me, and are divorcing me and yet you want me to trust you in a mediation process without a lawyer, is that what you are saying?"
She said - "Look we have 20 years of a great relationship, full of trust and you want to judge me on 8 years of a terrible period?"
I said - You told me that the 19 years of our marriage were pure hell and you never trusted me, so which is it? "You want it both ways". Put yourself in my shoes, what would you think? Give me one reason to trust you now in light of the last 8 months?
She said the last 8 months of my behavior have shown her how vindictive and mean I am and that is why I want a lawyer to punish her. She said "I know exactly how you think". I said "Oh you are a mind reader too? You don't know what I am thinking at all."
So, I toasted her glass of coffee and said good luck and we walked off.
More crazy talk. I will try to focus on my day.
I contacted my attorney and have given him the details.
