How is it possible to go through life with someone and watch the love turn to hate. How on earth is that possible? I am grappling with the fine points of that situation that we all are facing.
You're not the only newcomer to ask this question, yet it puzzles me. How else should it be? All couples struggle. My W once told me that she hated me as much as she loved me, way before DB (I should have taken this as a red flag, but I thought I was immune to D. sigh). She said that her friend felt the same about her H. I've been very angry at my W, this person whom I loved head over heels and was perfect from head to toe when I first kissed her.
I really don't understand your puzzlement. Surely you understand that spouses get on each others' nerves, right? The kids, work, the indignities of life. You want to walk fast and she's tired. No one is wrong, yet there is a conflict. Repeat 48 times a day in a M. Then add children. I mean, of course we end up hating each other! So why is it that some couples stay together while others split up. That's like predicting the weather: the system is too complex for a simple explanation. In our cases, the OP added to the volatile mix. There can be a big fight. A song. Go figure. You might want to read about masters and disasters for a few clues about what makes good couples work.
But once the WAW realize that she can leave all this mess behind, all that is wrong about the M comes to the surface. It's normal. You would do exactly the same if you were to leave a M. And don't think you're above that because I believe all of us might do it given the right circumstances.
It would really, really help you to develop empathy for your WAW. You just realized that she experiences a liberation. Duh. Her OW is the source of joy in her life and you're the source of trouble. She's new, you're old. You're not on an even playing field now, not until some time passes (see my previous message). Find ways to put yourself in her shoes, such as thinking back about how you felt when you first met her for instance. The elation of infatuation. This is what she's experimenting right now. Let it play out.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
How is it possible to go through life with someone and watch the love turn to hate. How on earth is that possible? I am grappling with the fine points of that situation that we all are facing.
You're not the only newcomer to ask this question, yet it puzzles me. How else should it be? All couples struggle. My W once told me that she hated me as much as she loved me, way before DB (I should have taken this as a red flag, but I thought I was immune to D. sigh). She said that her friend felt the same about her H. I've been very angry at my W, this person whom I loved head over heels and was perfect from head to toe when I first kissed her.
I really don't understand your puzzlement. Surely you understand that spouses get on each others' nerves, right? The kids, work, the indignities of life. You want to walk fast and she's tired. No one is wrong, yet there is a conflict. Repeat 48 times a day in a M. Then add children. I mean, of course we end up hating each other! So why is it that some couples stay together while others split up. That's like predicting the weather: the system is too complex for a simple explanation. In our cases, the OP added to the volatile mix. There can be a big fight. A song. Go figure. You might want to read about masters and disasters for a few clues about what makes good couples work.
But once the WAW realize that she can leave all this mess behind, all that is wrong about the M comes to the surface. It's normal. You would do exactly the same if you were to leave a M. And don't think you're above that because I believe all of us might do it given the right circumstances.
It would really, really help you to develop empathy for your WAW. You just realized that she experiences a liberation. Duh. Her OW is the source of joy in her life and you're the source of trouble. She's new, you're old. You're not on an even playing field now, not until some time passes (see my previous message). Find ways to put yourself in her shoes, such as thinking back about how you felt when you first met her for instance. The elation of infatuation. This is what she's experimenting right now. Let it play out.
Wow Mozza you really hit that nail on the head. I am in that exact position I am the old only thing my W knows and then there is OM who she sneaks around with and has all the thrills that go with it. There is no way to compete. I remember when I had an EA on my wife 12 years ago. The rush I got every time I logged onto instant messenger and making sure wife didn't see what I was doing.
Me: 36 W: 36 D: 14 T: 18 (05/1997) M: 16 (05/1999) BD: 7/23/15 Separation 01/2015 D mentioned and started 02/2015 D filed 3/2015 OM confirmed 3/30/15
It behooves you to USE your L and remove yourself from 'negotiating' with W or attempting this DIY stuff. Call in the pros and let them handle the legal stuff. You've already instructed your L to drag this out as long as possible and s/he will do it for you.
Really...you've got to stop engaging in emails with W or trying to do this DIY stuff with your W. It gets you nowhere and puts you in W's crosshairs. Ineffective...no? Right.
I do not understand why you persist in this fruitless endeavor when you've been advised to step away from DIY and getting a new L. Let's face it: we're not Perry Mason here.
Thank you for your kindness on reading my situation and posting. I can't tell you how much it means to me to read actual posts by people going through the same thing either now or recently. That is enormously comforting.
Yes, Mozza, empathy could go a long way on my part. The problem is how do I show that now that things have gotten so far down the path of the big D. We only speak in emails and even then they are curt and short. It makes me feel bad to even see emails from her. Everything I do is viewed with contempt. I was advised to not give back family photos (her family) as that would just been seen in a negative light, whereas I viewed that as a gesture of kindness. Oh boy. I never gave the photos back but I have them in a ziplock baggie for the time being.
Limerace, yes, I have been reading up on it. I remember those days... it seemed like they would last forever. I wish I could have bottled it up for just a drop or two.
Wonka - effective tomorrow, I will instruct my attorney whom I really like and share a bond with to take this case over. You are right, it only makes things worse when we have to interact with each other with this stuff. He has advised me to not respond to my WAW with any mediation stuff.
So now my big question is - once my WAW gets winds that I am now taking this up a notch - lawyer route - she will be even further polarized from me - right? How is that a good thing? Won't that make her "hate" me and everything I represent even more and push her further into the AP arms? What am I missing here?
Again, a lot of this DB stuff is so counter intititve that I scratch my head.
Again, another step towards more empathy for your WAW. Excellent!
It's important that you stop being surprised by what your WAW does, like this 500$ hotel room. She's done many more romantic things because she's in love. It's painful for you, but to be expected from her. It's the reason why she's not receptive to you and won't be for a while. Take it into consideration when you talk to her.
Originally Posted By: FOOLISH
The problem is how do I show that now that things have gotten so far down the path of the big D. We only speak in emails and even then they are curt and short. It makes me feel bad to even see emails from her. Everything I do is viewed with contempt.
Do the right thing, above all. Don't worry about how she perceives your behavior, especially not now when she's in that special state. There is no way you'll be appreciated for doing things right, but maybe someday she will. In my sitch, I always play the long game and think of how I will perceive my behavior years from now and even (maybe I shouldn't) how my WAW will perceive it once she "sobers up" (gets out of limerence). It's part of keeping the route paved and smooth.
The first thing you need to work on is your true feelings. You need to feel this empathy and love towards your WAW. Then it will be reflected in your communications with her. If you move your negotiations to your lawyer because you realize that it's difficult to talk directly with her, that it upsets both of you, then it sounds like a caring thing to do. If you move it because you want her to suffer for being difficult, then not so much. See?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
The need for a attorney is that my WAW no longer speak only communicate through spreadsheets and emails and texts. It is sad but that is the reality. Talking only brings us more pain and suffering and I don't want that for either one of us.
As for my using a lawyer, this is a long term approach and I can only pray that this will be successful in the long run. It appears that I fast approaching the big D but have asked my attorey to stall this out as long as possible. He understands my concerns and will work towards that end.
In the meantime, I am protecting my assets and my kids assets as well.
Who knows, maybe my WAW and he AP are in true love and who am I to stand in the way of true love?
My WAW keeps trying to pressure me into a mediation session. My attorney has Advised me not to respond. Gosh that is hard to do but I have to respect his process. I take no joy in any of this process and it sickens me to have to do it. My WAW is desperate to get me to the table so she can bully me into concessions I don't want to make. All of this blows.
And to think just a few short months ago my biggest worry was what to fix for supper. Life lesson - life changes in a second and you never know what is in people's hearts and minds.
Mozza tries to I still empathy and yes I do have empathy by trying to remember everyone else is as scared as I am . MoZza you are a better person than I am and I salute you.
My greatest wish is that in the future my family won't judge me to harshly for what I have to do . I will have to be the bad guy to pull the trigger metaphorically. I hope they know that I did it to protect them.
I have met/teleponed with my attorney and gone over several strategies.
The first is to get rid of the mediators altogether. He will send them a letter along with one to my WAW.
He will then file the motions on my behalf - I will go to the court house with him.
My WAW will be angry as hell and will be surprised but I'm sorry for that. This is what I have to do to protect myself and my kids.
Please keep me in your prayers and your fingers crossed.
This is what I would call a Hail Mary pass.
I pledge to be respectful, empatheic and kind throughout the process and we will see what happens. At any time we can pull this and negotiate/mediate ourselves.
Mozza - Thank you for the article about Masters and Johnson. Wow, that really was an eye opener for me. Yes, life does get in the way of love, how I know that. This article also explained a lot about how we must show our spouses attention and create opportunities for engagement. How I wish I had know that then.
I was clueless that was what "emotonally connected" meant. I really was. Now that I think back on it, I could have done that so many times but did not "see" it for what it was. It was the same with her, there were so many times I wanted her to "feel what I was feeling", just to set down on the couch with me to watch a movie or engage in a passion that I was into.
So many lost opportunities to show love and empathy for each other. I can only pray that it's not too late.
Can you suggest methods to demonstrate this empathy now that we are separated? I am not looking for a magic bullet, but boy its much much harder now that we are not living together. Maybe it is through our children? Maybe it is how we start to respond to one another now with extra pleases and thank you's etc...
