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Underdog

Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate the time you took to write them. i agree that you are shining a light on an issue that needs resolution.

#1. Why do you hate the name Foolish? I chose it because I do feel foolish, I feel taken advantage of, I feel I lacked a sense of good judgement with my WAW. She is not the person I married. We always talked about morals and how important they were to us and how important it was to be on the same page and how to impart those to our kids. We always talked about how happy we were and how fortunate we were to raise our family. I feel Foolish that she used our S9 email account to communicate with her AP.

#2. The Viper comment. Yes, my MIL did call me that for reasons I can't go into here. Over the entire 19 year marriage, I have always had a good relationship with her, she has made me laugh and I have made her laugh. I took the Viper comment to mean she was on he daughter's side - understandably so. She is a Southern story teller, so I thought it was impressive that she chose to call me that. She is calling me that based upon a lie my WAW has told her and of course she believes her daughter. I get that.

As for being unpredictable, I have been nothing but predictable, I have loved my wife, loved my family, paid our bills, never looked at another peson in that way, never lied to her, led by thought and action, made mistakes along the way, said a lot of apologies, went to theray, etc... but it was always "us" our family, "us" my WAW and me.

#3. Are people afraid of me - maybe so, but I remind you I am a very petite person. My WAW outweighs me 50 pounds and is about 4 inches taller than me. I agree that I have stuffed my anger inside many times because I did not want to cause waves. My family of origon was from a culture of yelling. I consciously chose not to live like that, which honestly has not served me well. When I do get angry, yeah, I get angry and mean. I guess the lesson here is I need to find a way to more emotionally honest with myself and get in touch more with my feelings and speakout more in the moment when I disagree with something instead of stuffing it up and letting it really blow when I am upset.

I have learned that I can say the same thing but in different ways, both can elicit the same reaction. However, saying it in a loving kind way gets a better response. That is true.

#4. I did not email the pastor, I emailed my WAW to remove the picture from the website. My WAW is very involved with the church and is in a far better position to accomplish that task than the pastor. I could have sent a kinder email and accomplished the same thing.

#5. In review of our mariage, I have found out she has lied about many things, to me and others. I am reconciling my emotional reality from reality. My emotional reality was not real and when I saw evidence of that, I chose to ignore it.

Specifically for my WAW being a liar - she chose to tell me on our anniversary (Sept) she was in love with someone else and was conflicted. I later found out that she had already been in a sexual relationship with this person since August. She said she knew this would probably wreck our marriage but she could not act on her feelings. I felt very Foolish as I chose to rent a Porsche, reserve a suite, filled it with strawberies, had flowers in the room, had wine in the room, made dinner reservations, made a spa and massage appointments. She chose then to tell me and I felt very very very foolish.

#6. She then tells everyone that the reason she left varies from person to person. She never states that she is having an intense physical affair that has changed her fundamental beliefs about everything and left to spend time with her AP.

#7. She has turned into someone I don't know or recognize.

So, yes, I am angry and upset....still...6 months later. If my WAW had just told me that she fell in love with another person then I could have dealt with that but she didn't. She strung me along with "well....I am not ready for marriage counseling...Maybe we could still live together.....you need to just deal with this and be uncomfortable with it.... and the classic "why are you so angry". I begged her to stop the affair and go to counseling where we could deal with this. I said many many times that our mariage is stronger than this, we can resolve it. She refused them and said she could not live without the AP.

#8. This is her second affair, the first was an EA when our son was in the hospital receiving chemotherapy. She told me "she just needed a friend". This friend was also very hurt by the emotional affair and my WAW could not understand why the other person was upset or I was too. I got angry then too. That was 8 years ago.

#9. The most basic fear I have is that I am unlovable as a person.

How do I display my anger, I say mean things, I yell, I cry, I make bad decisions out of anger. I guess I do all the things people do when they are upset. I called her Mom to ask what to do, was she having a breakdown, what was going on? I called for help with the family who provided no help just "well you kow how she is".

So, yes I hear you about the anger. I will add it to the list of things I am working on. I will try to find healthier ways to be more emotionally honest in the moment and not stuff my anger down. I will try to find ways to relase the anger and loss that I currently am experiencing.

It feels like I don't have a right to be upset or angry when my world has blown up and four small children have been hurt? Do I not have the right? I scream into my pillow, I run around the block, I practice deep breathing. I recognize when anger is creeping up becuase I start to feel hot and flooded.

The book has stated to DETACH DETACH DETACH and GAL GAL GAL and PMA PMA PMA. While I struggle wih these concepts, I am working on them.

Again, thank you so much for your insights. They are very valuable to me and I will think alot about this anger issue and how take steps to recognize it, minimize it, and deal with it.

Yes, I still feel Foolish

Ahhhh. Foolish just might be another snapshot in this moment in time. Hopefully, you will see yourself in a more positive light soon. I just won't address you by that name. I don't see you as foolish at all. I see you as hurt and confused.

My mother is also petite. I'm 5-8 and not. But I spent my childhood being afraid of my mom (we've healed that R). She was verbally mean and her anger was the whip that beat the kids into doing what she wanted. So physical size is no match for an angry person.



I think you'd do yourself a huge favor, F. Here's something to chew on. By lashing out instead of stepping back and figuring out why I felt anger, my IC called ME a liar. It took me a long time to figure out that my unwillingness to show vulnerability was also a lie.



^^^^^^^^ This is what your anger is all about, F. You're angry with yourself for not addressing this when you saw it for what it was. Ok, that might be foolish. I'd say it was fear of some sort that prevented you from shining the light on this. You were probably afraid she'd tell you she wanted to split up. Check. She did it anyway. You were probably afraid she'd check out. Check. She did that too. The worst already happened, F. So what purpose did that serve?

So what can you do? You can *choose* to address the elephant that shows up in your living room. Each and every time. Be true to yourself. Taking back your name is a symbol. But actually having your own back is the real action here.



#6 is out of your control. You can't control what she thinks or says. The only control you have is what comes out of your mouth. Devote your time to focusing on what you can do to make yourself and your kids feel better. #7? I'm afraid that all of us here share that one.



OK, take a long drink of that whiskey, F, because this is where I lay it on the table. You knew she had it in her to run when she felt out of control. Preaching to her isn't ever going to change anyone's mind. And yes, I was guilty of that initial pursuit. It only made him more resolved to get away from me. So I'm gonna ask you why you didn't dig deep way back when to resolve things then? From here, it sounds as though you swept it under the rug and stayed mad about it. And she probably figured that it would just go away if you didn't address it. I call that the ostrich effect. It doesn't work, BTW.



I never said this, and never intimated it either. Anger is a normal human emotion. Unchecked anger is not. It means that there is a huge disconnect between "what is" and "what you want it to be". It's not anger by itself. It's how it manifests and is expressed. That's the problem.

I personally find I have more anger with guilt. Dig deeper, F. Get to the bottom of this. I'd start with why you ignore big red flags when they wave in your face. Again, that does not make you foolish. It makes you give in to some real fear.

Can you shed some light on this fear of being unlovable? Something tells me this has roots in childhood.

Also, do you tend to be a defensive person? If so, it just might be getting in your way in how people treat you. Just saying.

I also have roots in the south. But I don't interpret being a viper having someone else's back. Webster's defines it as a vicious or treacherous person. That's a pretty strong accusation, and I'm not sure I'd be okay hearing that from anyone. Unless it had roots in truth.

Wonka has an outstanding thread here in Newcomers on boundaries that I suggest you read, print out and take notes. It would be a good place to help you identify the source of your feelings. Feelings serve a purpose. Choose authenticity, F. That's when you know you have nothing to feel foolish for, and you know you have your own back. There's nothing more rewarding than knowing that you can manage yourself. Take it from one who's had to do the unwinding to get to calm. It's not easy, and the only way out is through.

Betsey

Yes, it has it's roots (claws) back in childhood.

I great up traveling with my military family. I longed to be home - just to be home was my dream. We moved every 2-3 years. It was very hard.

Also I realized I was gay when i was 15 and was told so many many times that it was wrong and that there was something wrong with me, and I was not normal, etc...etc....

That took a long time to get over too. Coming from the South, that was just not a routine occurance and it wasn't until we moved to California that I realized I could be gay and it was no big deal. People did not look down on me, people would not be afraid to leave their kids with me, I could be open and authentic at my job and I could get married. At the time, it seemed like a dream come true, but now ahhh.....so many problems are associated with being authentic.

And then when our son was gravely ill with cancer, my WAW did run into an EA and yes, I knew then she would leave. We had a second child - she called her our fix it baby and that gave us another 6 years.

So there you have it, unresolved issues, running away when life gets tough and throw in unresolved issues from childhood and you have a whole stew of miscommunication, fear, anger and guilt and lack of trust issues.

Oh Boy!

Another worry has jumped into my head

We split the kids - week at each house. However, when my WAW does not have the kids she is not in town. She cuts it close, flying back today at 3:30 ish. That cuts it very close to pick up kids as flight delays, traffic, parking, etc... is always unpredictable in this large city.

I am worried that she will miss picking up the kids. I have updated my contact info with the after school program.

OK - deep breath - if she is unable to pick them up - surely she will call me. I still feel the need to ensure that they are picked up and not just left there.

I guess what this post is really about is my being upset that she is with her AP when it's not her turn with the kids. She has the ability to "work from home" at her job 3 days per week. Those 3 days she is everywhere, all across the country with her AP. It just seems all so very unfair about how I play it safe for the kids stabaility and well being and right now she chooses not to.

OK - thought stopping - lying on a beach in Hawaii right now - Ahhhh.......

Had dinner with a friend last night - she brough over dinner and we had a lovely evening eating outside. My friend is beautiful and is struggling with her marriage right now too. We have a lot in common, plus she is drop dead gorgeous. That does not hurt. I only wish she was not straight!

I also was invited to dinner and movie on Saturday night by a friend. I was happy about that and plan to enjoy myself!!

Underdog

Thanks again for your reply. You really got me thinking.

Yes, when our son was receiving chemotherapy for his cancer and she had the EA with an old friend those were very tough days for us. I hoestly thought my son was going to die. After he got out of the hospital, we spent YEARS in physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, hearing aids, everything we told by our doctors to do, we did. It was exhausting to keep up with all of it but we did becuase he was our son and we love him so very much.

So, yes, a lot got swept under the carpet, I agree with that, but I swear we were so busy trying to get him up and steady and enrolled in school that it was hard. We did go to couples therapy but not for her EA, but for my "anger issues". There it is again, anger. I guess my wife is afraid of my reactions. I don't believe she ever dealt with her reason to go outside of the mariage for emotional suppport during a crisis.

Anyway, I continued with therapy, joined a conseling group, did everything I could to become a better person becuase of it, that I had learned how to express myself more appropriately when I was really upset.

Flash forward to now and her AP, when she told me, I was pretty calm, I got sick and had to just lie down while she texted her AP my reactions and what they were going to do next. The next day, we cut our anniverssary short and drove home in the morning. I was devastated. The following Monday I had to leave for a week's work conference in Atlanta. When I got back, she was entrenched into her affair and she leaves in October.

I felt foolish becuase she told me this terrible news on our special day, and she knew I was going out of town for a week so whe would not have to deal with me and the fallout. It just felt so calculated and I was clueless.

So, here I am again, working on me while my wife does nothing to work on her. That too makes me feel foolish. Why do I want to be with someone who clearly does not want to be with me? Does that mean I feel so unlovable that I will put up with someone who lies, and cheats on me?

That is a hard truth to look at as well. Who am I? Why do I have such low self esteem that this happened not once but twice (and probably more times than I knew about). This is not about her, but me and my feelings about me and how I process my feelings. I am pobviously not doing a good job because I feel pretty lost right now.

On the bright side, my S9 has been identified as gifted and is doing well physically. My D6 is a lovely little girl and I am very proud of her work in kindergarten. My family loves me, I have a great job, I have a roof over my head, many many many things to be grateful for. I just have to open my eyes and see it. Does that make sense?

Enough of my blathering.

Thanks for reading.

.......you're mad that your W is with her AP, when she doesn't have the kids?

Am I reading this correct?

If so.....

what is she supposed to do when she doesn't have the kids -- stay at home?

Look. This isn't a pissing contest. You're mad that your W is not acting the way YOU think she should. In fact, it appears that you're mad because she's not acting the way YOU are acting.

Yes. It's unfair. But what exactly can you do to make it fair to you?

Stop focusing on your W. I can understand. I really do. But the only thing you are doing is making yourself worked up and even more angrier. And yes, you have a right to be angry. But you also have a right to let it go and have peace. And you can start having peace by STOP FOCUSING ON YOUR W's EVERY MOVE.

I know you want to vent - but you seem to oscilate between anger and being a victim. Is that what you want to be?

Didn't someone challenge you to not post about your W for a week? Have you been able to do this? Could you break that into a smaller goal. Say -- for the next three posts you make -- you don't mention your W, or her AP.

I'm not trying to be mean - but I'm trying to help you see that your anger is not good. I know I'm young, and you may think WTF does she know -- but I spent a good 10+ years of my life holding onto anger. And you know what it got me? Absolutely nothing but a chip on my shoulder which likely contributed to the state of my marriage with my H right now.

What do you think?

You are correct, I did accept the challeng from the wise Mozzza and last a total of 2 days of not mentioning a certain person.

Fail.

I like your challenge of breaking this down into a smaller goal for the next three posts.

I accept your challenge. This is Post #1

This Friday I and the kids go to Joshua Tree a reallly specila place in the desert that I have always wanted to visit. I am super excited about and feel good that we are going. I have to get busy this week and pack some appopriate clothes and gear. We are going with our church group. How about that for GAL?

F,

It's not enough not to post - you have to work on some EMDR techniques to change your overall thought patterns. Imagine yourself with a magnifying glass. Would you rather look at something pleasant or awful? What you focus on expands. Keep that in mind.

Wow, Calibri. I don't care that you are chronologically young. Well, younger than I am. But you have a lot of wisdom in that post.



I completely understand. While my D18 never had cancer, she was born with a genetic deletion resulting in numerous hospitalizations, epilepsy, she's nonverbal and has intellectual disabilities. Her dad and I went to court this morning to get guardianship, and succeeded. I tell people with vehemence that her issues did not cause the wheels to fall off our marital wagon. They highlighted the cracks in our foundation. The same is true with you.



How does this make you feel foolish? You're in charge of your side of the street and she hers. Her circus, her monkeys. What does that have to do with you? You clean up your side of the street and worry about that. Not her. Repeat after me, "Not my circus, not my monkeys".



F, again, what about her actions are about you? She's a flawed human being. From the outside looking in, she runs when she's overwhelmed. She's looking for a magic bullet to make herself feel better. I doubt very seriously that she is out to make you feel like crap - most WASs really don't care to put any effort into examining consequences. They're worried about taking care of themselves at the expense of other important people.

If you feel unlovable, go back to your post about your childhood. It's there, F. You have to deal with THAT in order to heal yourself. I'm not gay, and I bet it was hard as hell to be an adolescent knowing that. But have you ever thought that the spiritual lessons associated with your sexual identity have something to do with self love and acceptance, and learning who you can trust with who you are and how to love others who are sometimes unlovable? Every gay person I know has had to come to peace with some part of themselves that society shuns. I respect your journey.

You are not alone in being marginalized. Nor are you a victim unless you want to be. But who would choose to be one if they had a choice to be proactive and out there?

Long ago, my late gay boss interviewed a physically disabled woman we met through the NSCD. We both really liked her. Until the interview. At that meeting, it became obvious that she had a massive chip on her shoulder. She was angry with the world that she was in a car accident that left her a paraplegic. (She was a skier in the NSCD program, and how we met her.) Okay, so that svcked. Really. Most of us are compassionate people. But dwelling on "why me" is not productive or positive. It's the difference between calling yourself disabled vs. differently abled. At the end of the interview, my former boss told her he wouldn't hire her. She was stunned. I swear her mouth dropped a foot. He told her what I just posted and suggested she get herself into IC to figure out how she could be happier accepting what is. She left. Several years later, she rolled her wheelchair into our office. She thanked him for the wake up call and said she understood that he was right. She had a great job advocating for people with spinal injuries and was much happier after the therapy.

I would suggest that to you. Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people. Sometimes it's the turning point in anyone's life. A game changer. You want a good role model? I'm personal friends of the Shepards. Instead of being stuck in self pity why her gay son was murdered, Judy got off her ass and decided to use this opportunity to work tirelessly for the rights of LGBT people everywhere, and takes it upon herself to travel like a crazy person, speaking wherever she needs to sow the message of love vs. fear and hate.

Choose happiness, F. Choose peace. Choose love. Especially love for yourself. Your W's path is hers. It's about her and her alone. It doesn't mean you don't have behaviors that have contributed to your marital demise. But it means that it has nothing to do with your loveability, attractiveness or worth as a human being.

What a blessing that your children are awesome. Celebrate that. It's enough, right?

Hugs,
Betsey

F, have been reading up on you 2! Betsy gave you sound advice. Gosh it's so good to be reminded & informed thru these posts. Keep on, ok? p.

F, I can't PM you as that feature is disabled - check your footer info. - re '2015'

Thanks Pbetra

You are right - I updated my footer to August 2014