Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Susana (5) - Stay the Night

Thanks T, good advice! I think I will stick with the same approach, and I really like the suggestion to just observe (and avoid situations that could lead to ML). I have decided to treat it like a mission - will just try to observe, and not react. Just observe his actions over the next few days.

So, I'm home now, H was out when I got back as expected. Will probably head to bed early tonight, because i'm really tired after not sleeping much last night, and because I would rather avoid him today.

I think it's good for both of us to have some space to think and be on our own after. And I'm still reeling today (and don't want to put myself in a position to interact with him until I feel more stable, am hoping I will feel more so tomorrow).

I know it's silly when all the tickle fights and recent flirtation/near kissing/"dates" & general atmosphere seem to point in this direction, but I am still in shock about ML. I just really didn't think that would happen, given how many opportunities have arisen and H has always stopped himself.

I still have so many mixed feelings about it, but I am going to try and put my feelings behind me (not good for detaching) and go into observation mode.

Small 180 for me tonight...

When I came home I noticed a handwritten note from H on the counter. At first I freaked out because I thought it was about ML (I know, I'm not detached enough if I let it affect me), but then I saw it was about a small handmade plate a friend made me, which he accidentally dropped and broke. The note said sorry and that he had superglued it back together.

About a year ago, he dropped a potholder which had a lot of meaning for me as it was a present. I freaked out completely, was shouting at him and he still brings it up to this day. I let my anger get the better of me and I shouldn't have. But on his part (and what infuriated me so much) was he didn't apologise, he didn't offer to fix it (he just threw it out) and he said he'd buy me a replacement but he never did.

Today, I was calm. I don't know how much of it is down to the fact that a broken plate pales in comparison to our broken M, but I thought "this is only a plate, even though it means a lot to me."

And I appreciated that he was trying to glue it back together, so instead of getting angry, I decided to just thank him for fixing it.

I'm still panicking a little bit about ML, I have been all day. I just keep worrying it messed everything up, even though I *know* one single action can't change a whole sitch.

But, when I'm not panicking, I have to laugh at the role reversal that happened this morning.

Throughout our entire relationship, I have always been the one who questions and panics and asks "what does this mean? oh god, what are we going to DO?" "we need to talk!" while he has been the avoidant one going "everything will be ok" and shutting down.

So this morning was quite funny, when HE was the one standing there going "should we talk?" "are things going to be awkward?" and HIS wheels were spinning while I was calmly saying (thanks Toots!) "well I had a fun time" "no need to talk".

At least there's something I can laugh at admist the freaking out!

So, H just texted from his friend's house:

I'm going to stay at X's tonight because it is too much effort to get the train now. I hope you had a fun day doing all of your things. That snacks were really nice thank you he (X) thought the cookies were amazing!

I have no clue why, because I *wanted* to not see H tonight and was avoiding him all day, but this text has infuriated me. What?!

I'm ignoring it - is that bad? There's no q so I figure no need to respond, but we've been having fairly warm text exchanges this week and he may think I'm going cold because of ML last night.

Maybe it infuriated you because of a light tone when you've been freaking out? Or it wasn't what you expected or thought he should say? No judgement, it prob would have aggravated me, too,after everything.

Been thinking about you, and in no particular order:

The ML bit - yeah, it's hot to have what you feel you can't/shouldn't; to feel like you're cheating on your H with the strange new version of your H; and all else everyone has cited. When it happened the first time with mine, I felt all of that anger of his underneath. Kind of liked it, bc man that aggressive need is awesome. Later, we were objectifying each other in best way possible. At those times we were freshly S, S with his feet firmly in D camp, then S after he moved back home. Who knows what he thought. What mine thought, or anyone else's has little bearing on your sitch, right? Bc it can go both ways. With me, looking back, it seemed to be a Jenga puzzle of ML-emo conversation-fun- me being the me he fell in love with-ML-(repeat cycle 2-3 times), affection, pullback, a new Jenga piece of a R talk, (repeat cycle) - sex fell off when he started seeing me as W again and voiced commitment (still been better than ever though.)

Let's face it, MWD didn't sell her books bc people want to survive D, but bc foremost we all start with hope. We GAL and detach bc it's the best way to be our best self but the end goal is saving M. After WAS has their fill of space, they gotta have hope for things changing too, if there's going to be a chance...hope for a WAS is seeing change in action.

I think your sitch looks good from here. Your H has been happy to spend time with you, get close to you, stay in your home, text you...ML. You're not a doormat for giving lovers attention, being your strong happy sexy self, ML on your terms. If it comes from a centered place an not a desperate one. If you want him, keep showing him unconditional love without pressure. And yeah, no future R talks until he may mention, but I think at some point you gotta let him know you understand what a critical b&&&$ you were. you can keep that light, too! Criticism is death to a R, right?

So maybe your strategy at this point (above all keep working on you - be strong):

1.act As-if; the Carol Dean chapter. Combo of Sandi's rules, but you're still his wife and you can still act lovingly. (A week after moving home, my H reported to our MC I'd been really "loving" we hadn't been fighting...) a few days later, he commits. Change czn happen fast. I think if you act as-if, it might not change anything but it has it's best chance. W standing, a home environment that he suddenly loses any desire to leave. If you can bring all the best parts of your R back into that place, lose the bad parts, why not? ML if YOU can handle it and enjoy it; enjoy a date if the occasion arises; the snack thing; be loving, keep GAL.

2. All this without giving him power to unseat you in any way.

3. Slow is fast. Little goes a long way, give him time and distance to miss you. Hopefully his thoughts are drawn toward you more and more again. You can't control that, so again, keep your eyes on you. Don't text, call or contact in pursuit, let him initiate most right now. I'm still doing this with my H. Dynamics are still same - when I pull back he gets to put effort in.

4. Protect you. Maybe there is no hope and your H is still people pleasing, etc. Maybe he's not the one you'll be with in five years. Get real comfortable with that Stockdale paradox, imagine the worst, and be at peace with it. Be above it. Carry yourself like the better half that is going to do just fine. If you believe it, you don't have to fake it!

I'll keep thinking of you. Take any and all with a grain of salt, but you asked
Hugs, wishing you a good sleep and peaceful night/week.

Another thought, (I'm full of them in the mornings)

Your H said he didn't feel like himself. As you back off and give him that space/support, perhaps he slowly has room to get to that place again. And you might be surprised he's not the H you thought you knew/had. If he feels he has room to be his authentic self around you, that could be huge, yeah?

Mine is playing the music he knows I hate, going out more, and also doing a bunch of positive things for him that are 'new'. It is ALL good bc he needs to see he's not living in a little cage of my ideals and preferences.

Hi Zelda, I'm so happy to hear from you, thanks for stopping by and for your long response. I know every sitch is different and there are obviously some key differences but I do see a lot of my H in yours!

I think you've got it spot on in your analysis of my reaction to the text. H came back this morning and was acting soooo casual and normal and it just infuriated me because I was like "how can he act so normal?!" Even though I was planning to do the same.

(mind reading here) I think H was a bit shaken up by the ML because of his immediate reaction (wanting to discuss it) and because he spent the night at his friend's. It was the first time he's ever stayed the night out that wasn't pre-planned (like a vacation).

to feel like you're cheating on your H with the strange new version of your H - ha, this made me laugh! True! There is something illicit (or "naughty" as my H put it) about the whole thing, which makes it even better. Plus in our case, we had several months of tension (tickle fights, near kisses etc) all pent up.

This is something I struggle with a little bit, hope vs. detachment. I feel like they are incompatible, and yet I know I need to detach but if I give up hope in order to detach, then I won't want to save my M?

Yes, absolutely, I am waiting for a good opportunity to bring it up because I do want to acknowledge my part in the breakdown of our M, and that I understand what a critical b!tch I was and how that must have affected him. I just haven't found the right timing yet...I didn't want to do it during our "dates" this week, and now i want to give it a few days after the LM until both of our emotions have settled.

Thanks for your thoughts Z. I agree on this plan, that's along the lines of what I've been thinking. I am going to continue acting lovingly, because a) that's the kind of person i want to be regardless b) it's what my DB coach recommends c) it seems to be drawing him closer (although sometimes I have doubts). Need to re-read Carol and Dean again. I think it's no. 2 I'm struggling with the most, I need to not let his actions affect me, but am finding it a little hard. However I do feel pretty good about how I handled the post ML convo.

Your H said he didn't feel like himself. As you back off and give him that space/support, perhaps he slowly has room to get to that place again. And you might be surprised he's not the H you thought you knew/had. If he feels he has room to be his authentic self around you, that could be huge, yeah? - oh man, yes. No matter what happens between us I do hope he can be his authentic self around me, because there's nothing worse than feeling you can't be you. Especially in your own home! I can see him doing a bit of it now, slowly slowly, kind of like your H - he is going out more, watching TV shows he knows I wouldn't like.

But I do find myself wondering if I like this new H of mine...do you ever find yourself thinking that? More in my next post...will update on the events of this morning! I lost my cool a little bit.

Thanks again Zelda! I really appreciate your thoughts

Journaling here, comments welcome if anyone can be bothered to read such a long update

Lost my cool a bit this morning. :S

I had the best night's sleep I've had in awhile. Still a little hard to sleep through the night due to ADs.

H came back early this morning and was acting completely normal, like nothing had happened. Which annoyed me a bit! Illogical, because my plan had been to act calm myself, but I was thrown inside and annoyed he didn't seem to be, too.

We had a good conversation about his day yesterday. He talked a bit about his fear of missing out and his fear of saying no and how he's started saying no to things, and I validated and complimented him on working on this and learning to say no. He really appreciated the movie & snacks (woo!) I made yesterday and his friend LOVED the cookies I made. But overall he seemed very distracted and down, when I asked him if he was tired or something he said he was just worried about money. (He's always worried about money)

I started to get frustrated, and I knew I was reaching the end of my tether. Should have really left at that point.

I was just sat there thinking "do I really want to be with this man? Why am I trying to save my M? What is the point?"

Then he announced he was going to Starbucks to spend the afternoon on his laptop. Now, I had been planning to go to Starbucks (but he didn't know this). Potential awkwardness. I obviously didn't want to invite myself along (pursuit) but i thought "how weird is it going to be if I turn up at Starbucks?"

So I made a joke - "hey which Starbucks are going to? Let me know because I was going to go to Starbucks too, so I'll go somewhere else I don't want you to think I was stalking you or something."

He got really annoyed and defensive and was like "why? you can come to the same Starbucks with me... Well, I don't care what you do, do whatever you want, I really don't care."

I realise this is nowhere near the level of spew many people on this forum receive, but my H does NOT do angry and this was level of anger was shocking to me. He wasn't shouting (if he had I would have left the room), but the level of anger in his voice was the sort of thing I'm only accustomed to hearing the one or two times a year he explodes.

And I lost it and started crying. Not good. This seemed to make him angrier and he was like "why are you crying? are you coming with me or not?" And just started flip flopping between asking me to come with him, and saying I shouldn't, and complaining that this was a ridiculous argument (it really was, but if I'm doing a bit of mind reading I'd say both of us were letting out some pent up frustrations).

Eventually I thought to myself right, I have 2 options here:
a) tell him to just go to Starbucks and I'll go somewhere else, and then act completely upbeat tonight when he comes home
b) try and resolve this argument

I went with option b because H is deathly scared of conflict/arguing and my DB coach said it's important to show him the conflict can be dealt with in a healthy way and guide him through it.

So, I said I was going to calmly explain my side (180 for me, being calm in an argument) and explained that I had been joking about going to a different Starbucks to avoid stalking, and I got upset by his angry response. I also said I didn't mind if he didn't want me to come but I hoped he'd be honest with me. He said he hadn't realised it was a joke and thought i really wanted to avoid him. I asked him how this made him feel and he said "nothing" (sigh. H has trouble identifying his emotions. Maybe he honestly felt nothing but then why did he get angry and defensive?)

Then he asked again if I wanted to come, followed shortly by "well maybe you shouldn't" and proceeded to go back and forth. I asked why he didn't want me to come and he said "because we just had an argument and now it will be tense. I don't want it to be tense".

Tried to recall what my DB coach had said about "leading" through arguments, and I said "it's OK to argue. People can disagree about something, and still get on." He nodded, and asked if I was coming, then (seriously wtf, make up your mind). I was of 2 minds on this, I thought:
a. it might be best to diffuse tension and let him have the afternoon to himself
b. OTOH if I went and things weren't tense, that would prove to him arguments don't have to result in tension.
Also, I wanted a freaking Starbucks.
So option B won.

I went to gather my things, and H sat morosely on the sofa staring at the floor, looking like he was about to cry. Now maybe this wasn't the correct DB approach but I sat down next to him and gave him a hug. He smiled and looked a bit less down.

On the walk to Starbucks, I didn't feel any tension, and we had a good chat. I decided when we got here I wouldn't start any conversations. He's started a few convos, and I keep catching him staring at me but I am just sitting here calm, collected, not tense and hey! if he wants to be tense he can (his issues, not my problem) but I'm just going to enjoy my latte.

I don't think there's tension at any rate, he keeps chatting to me and occasionally looking over and smiling, and he insisted on buying me a coffee. But I'm not going to mindread on whether he's feeling tense!