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Well, I swallowed my H whole tonight, for a few reasons.

Remember the e-bay auction for the totalled sports car that he "lost by one bid"? Well, he lied about that. How did I find out? Well, I called his shop today and he told me to hold on while he finished a piercing. He finished it and forgot that was on the phone, and left it sitting on the counter on. So I heard him tell the customer he wasn't going to be in at all tomorrow (hmm, he didn't say anything to me!) - this from the guy who is completely unable to take a day or even a couple hours off to do ANYTHING with me. Then I heard him tell someone in the shop that he needed to use their trailer, and then he said something about $500 dollars. Well, I sat and waited for ten minutes for him to remember I was on the phone, and by then I was absolutely LIVID. So I drove at breakneck speed to his shop, walked in (only "hangout people" were there, no customers) and I slammed the hell out of the door.
The first words he said were, "Oh, [censored]..." I had him walk outside with me, and I told him that I knew he had lied, I knew he was going to go to Cleveland, OH tomorrow, without telling me, obviously without asking me to come along, and then he has the nerve to say that he lied to me because he wanted to SURPRISE ME. With a car I never wanted and expressed huge reservations about.

My H and I have a combined income of about $900 in a good month. This car cost $2250, and apparently his business partner is paying for it, so now he owes him for it.

I ate him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner - we have an overdue powerbill, we need a new washer, and we need to do something about our enormous pile of debt. AND HE IS BUYING HIMSELF NEW TOYS, AND LYING ABOUT IT. My last purchase for myself was a keychain that cost $1.50. He swears that if he can't come up with the money, Joe will just sell the car to someone else, but wtf - he lied before. AND - he told me about a month ago that he was getting a third EQ account for his business partner, and HE (the business partner) would pay for it. That, also, was a lie - it's on his (our) credit card. I didn't even ask him about that! He volunteered the informations, and it was A TOTAL LIE.

Not only do I want to divorce the stupid mfer (sorry, I am really mad), I kind of want to break both his knees!
I feel EXTREMELY taken advantage of - I am the only one who worries about the bills (or I feel like it).

Mer, you have any input? I know your H occasionally launches himself into outer space and does weird things a bit like this. What's your take? DO I grit my teeth and keep smiling? Do I say "I am sorry for how I handled this situation. I think this car is a really bad idea for us right now, and I am extremely hurt and upset that you lied. I needed to share my feelings about that with you, and I would really appreciate it if you would at least give me a heads-up when you make a major purchase."
What do you guys think? Anyone? Anyone?

Grrrr,
Myrrh

Myrrh,

Your feelings are understandable. Been there done that! I have no clue how to control the lies and spending.

I do think you need to say something to him vey similar to your last few sentences. However, I'm not sure you need to apologize. You might also sit down wih paper, pencil, and bills to let him get a visual of what comes in what needs to be paid and what goes out monthly.

I know this worked for us about 12 years ago. But truthfully, I married a spender. If he wants it, he'd buy it. Didn't matter that the kids needed shoes or we had a major expense coming up.

5 years ago I separated the money and accounts. It was the only way to survive for me.

Money issues are always tough. H could be in denial about the money. (Not that I want to make excuses for sweetie, haha) In an earlier post you mentioned bankruptcy. Have you considered a credit counceling service? Not the flim-flam types, but CCCS or the like?

Even if H won't go, I would suggest that you do if for no other reason than to allow CCCS to set your budgets. This will give you sound ammunition in discussions with hubby on what and how money can be spent.

Myrrh! I am glad I happened to be bored and lurking around tonight…usually the BB is something I stick to at work!

Sweetie…my H more than occasionally goes on spending sprees. I know all too well what the feelings are like when you’re trying to be responsible and he’s…well…not. Sting, and it sounds like your H too, says whatever I want to hear. That makes it worse because it plays with the trust side of the relationship. Myrrh, I am looking at a 4 f-ing THOUSAND dollar credit card bill that I never even knew about! My darling H plays around with MY credit and then lies about it. So, if it is commiseration you’re looking for…you’ve found it!

As far as how to deal…that is a tough one. If it makes it any easier not to hate him, I would try looking at his issue with money and lack of responsibility as a struggle for him to overcome. Granted, he has to WANT to overcome it and WORK at overcoming it…but we know that yelling and screaming and tearing his nuts off doesn’t exactly motivate him. Can you slow down, take a deep breath and look at this from a strickly rational perspective? What does motivate your H?

If you can take what makes him tick and work that into a spending plan, you might just hit the nail on the head. That is my current plan of attack with Sting. It is harder now, because everything is separate. But, Betsey and I have explored the need to motivate Sting on my levels…not just spending habits.

Myrrh, if your H is ADD and PA…you know how he deals with things. He doesn’t! SO maybe there is some underlying depression, fear, anxiety, etc that he feels like he’s overcoming by spending money. Yes, he does make more problems in the long run…but isn’t that the motto of PA’s???

In the meantime, and this isn’t easy, what you might want to try is hiding money. Yes, it sucks and it seems very wrong…but truthfully – it might be enough to calm your nerves. We aren’t exactly rolling in cash either, but I found that increasing my 401k deduction meant that I had more money saved without even seeing it in my check. And I can borrow against my 401k should a true emergency arise. I haven’t had to do it yet, but I know that if something happens and I go to take the money out of a savings account and find it gone – I have a back up plan. That lowers MY anxiety and consequently, my crazymaking.

I guess all I’m saying throughout this prattling is that we need to find out what kind of a high spending brings him, what motivates him to change behaviors and how to protect your family financially in the meantime. I’m still working on this with my H, but you have more opportunity to see what works with your H living at home. Any thoughts?

I like the idea of sitting him down with paper and pencil and showing him a budget, to make it real. If you can show something else you 2 need to give up for this expense (I know if there is anything you can give up) it will reinforce it.

btw my old thread's locked so I updated my signature.

Myrrh,

If you don't have a separate checking account, open one today.
You and Meredith are alot younger than me. Forever we had a joint account. 5 years ago, H no longer working, he started writing checks for all kinds of things. I used to save some money for emergencies, but even that wasn't enough to cover the large checks he was writing.
I had my name taken off the account.

So, I opened my own account. Each week the money went into my account. I left a bare minimum in the other account. I wasn't cruel, I was paying all the bills and occasionally I'd drop money into the other account.

Sure H was pissed. I was hoping he'd get a job, start his own company like planned, etc. Bottom line is I needed to take control of the money I was making or we wouldn't have a very nice roof over our heads.

He still had credit cards. So when he maxed out one, I paid it down, then called and had the account froze. Sure he could have called to unfreeze it, but he never bothered to.

This was brought up in a C session once. I was pissed b/c the mortgage payment bounced. H was pissed cause we had taken a vacation. Hello, I had paid for most of it before we went, we needed (family) the time away for everyones sanity.
If he hadn't gone on a private spending spree, it would not have been a problem. C understood it, even if H didn't .

You need to take an active role in protecting yourself.

But I still urge you to sit down with paper and pencil. It worked wonders when H wanted to buy a corvette. When I got done with the visual he couldn't believe that some months more went out than came in.

Myrrh…listen to my words…I need to you to put down the nutcracker….it is okay Myrrh…just put it down nice and slow….OH who am I kidding? When you’re done cracking his nuts with it just hit him upside the head a few times – maybe it will slam some sense into him!

Okay, okay…seriousness time. Here’s what I have gathered:

1. D succumbs easily to peer pressure
2. D works with people who make more money than he does
3. D finds himself comparing his self-worth to the possessions he owns
4. D is a resourceful bugger (finding someone to help him acquire the new car)
5. D is afraid of the reality of money
6. D does well with instant gratification

All of those tend to steer toward low self-esteem. Basically, he’s terrified of the reality of money so he spends it to remind himself that he can. He bases his worth on his possessions, and compares himself to others through their possessions. When his self-esteem is need of a boost, he boosts it with a compulsive present to himself (is his LL gifts?), likely triggered by ADD, and then he feels guilty so he justifies it to himself. Once he’s justified it to himself, he feels better…but can’t understand why YOU are so upset once he justifies it to you. I think PA must play some role here too…in a ‘don’t tell ME that I can’t’ sort of way.

Now, since his self-esteem is pretty kaput, talking down to him is only going to worsen it. With PA coming into the picture, you’re likely to bring on more of the same behavior from him by taking on a controlling role. The crappy part is that we’re talking MONEY here, and when you live hand to mouth (as the majority of us do), we can’t sit back.

Sting didn’t do well with an “allowance”. Now that I look back, I see that he felt like the child and I took on the role of a mother. And I did, but only because our finances were going down the toilet and taking our credit along for the ride. Turns out that my method also directed our marriage toward the same proverbial toilet!

See, we had separate checking accounts and one joint checking account. I wrote this on Karen’s thread, but I can post it here too. Each month our paychecks were direct-deposited into the joint account. We paid the bills from that account and then put some money in savings and divided what was left over (BTW, it wasn’t much). The divided money went into our individual accounts. Now, Sting would head himself out to Best Buy and fall madly in love with a stereo. Sooo…Mr. Stereo would follow him home and take residence in our house. When I came home, I’d flip out! He would calmly inform me that it was okay, we got a savings account statement in the mail that day and we had the money for it, what good news! I distinctly remember screaming at him, “The money fairy didn’t drop that off, you idiot! That is our SAVINGS for when things HAPPEN!! Your stupid electronics don’t fit in that category!” I wasn’t the nicest person either, as you can see. And how much money could I bet that the stereo was in my house to 1. show me that it could be and 2. as a rebellion for something or another.

When we went to counseling, the MC (she was more of a quack than a room full of deranged ducks…but had some good points) asked me where I got the crown for Queen Finance. She said that I took on a commanding role with OUR money…and Sting felt left out in the cold. As much as I do hate to admit it, it made sense…but he never wanted to make a budget! And when I did strap him to the chair and force him to look at our money situation, he would nod and smile. Then he’d get up, walk out the door and go buy something. I tell you, it was a loose-loose situation.

Again with the prattling! Tell me to shut up and get to the situation at hand!

I believe (and you know D better than I, of course, so please feel free to correct me) that by taking on an OPENLY aggressive role with the finances, you’ll only be throwing fuel on a fire. It may open his eyes if you march home and demand that everything become separate, or it may make him feel like dirt and send him on another spending spree to prove you wrong. Can you make it seem like his idea? How bout asking him what HE thinks should be done and trying to steer his thoughts into a well-working plan? These are your finances too, so don’t let him dictate, but with a PA person you’re so much more likely to get results from THEM taking on the control.

Very, very similar to Betsey’s advice to me on handling the ‘come home’ talk with Sting. If I sit at that table and say, “you’ll have to renew the commitment, you’ll have to make a budget, you’ll have to stay home if you come, etc” then I was just saying, “I’m in control, you are not. Deal with it”. PA people hear differently. They filter it through a voice distorter or something and wind up with a totally different message than the one we’re trying to deliver.

Oh, Myrrh.... I read this with great trepidation. Meredith is much more qualified than I am to help you on this score. Mr. W. and I are both squeaky with money.

But there is one thing I want to say, and it's something I have to remind myself and I'm pretty sure Mer and I have had this discussion too.

HE got himself (and you, indirectly) into this pickle. Let HIM figure out how to get you out of it. The PA person depends <HEAVILY> on the resourcefulness of others to clear them of any wrongdoing.

So don't let him.

Believe me, it sucks. I'm saying this as I watch Mr. W. not deal with the foundation tournament in a kickass fashion and cringe at the thought of giving him control over things. (And he's got a good chance of losing money for us now that he's behind the 8-ball.)

But think back: how often did you (and all of us) learn if we didn't have our feet held to the fire? He's going to have to learn how to assume responsibility for his bad choices, and you're going to have to learn how to NOT take it for things that aren't yours.

My advice would be to sit him down (calmly), pull out all the finances and checkbook register and ask for a plan on how he's going to meet the financial obligations you have as a family while buying the toys.

Then button your lip--because the next person who speaks owns it. And sit there in complete silence until he speaks, even if it takes an hour.

It's not going to change the past, but you can force this horse to the trough AND make him take a drink if he realizes that you aren't going to resolve things for him.

Make sense?

Tough love is tough--and it sucks.

Hugs,

Bets

Myrrh,

That's what I meant, put it to paper and pencil and calmly show him what you all have to work with. Then be quiet. Like Betsey said, let him own it.

I still think it would be a very good idea to stash some money on the side. It doesn't have to be alot, but there isn't anything wrong with an emergency fund.