I was just reading some of your thread, and it so eerily similar - your H thinking that you wanted to leave him back before the A and all that... Looks like you've read my thread as I spotted a quote from it, about moving forward yourself and hoping that H looks sharp enough to catch the same train.
I am really sorry to hear about the latest developments. I am sure the only reason I am not D is that in this country you cannot divorce before three years of separation.
I was out in the park this morning and it was beautiful and I had this sense that whatever happens, whether H returns to me or not, I will be OK. I think I felt this way because I kept very busy the last three days, doing things with people and being validated by them.
Then I came home and sent H an email, the first in three days, and now I am back to hoping he will reply to me. Terrible roller coaster, this.
Maybe if you get to feeling "OK with him, Ok without him" you really will be able to move on and he may or may not catch up with you a little later.
What on EARTH makes these WAS think that their new relationships won't be headed the same way a little down the road beats me. No pain (work), no gain. No learning from the past, no escape from repeating history.
Wonder, what more can I say at the moment?
Here's a hug instead -
((((((((((((((((((((wonder))))))))))))))))))))
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
And a special thanks and {{{hugs}}} to Kitti and Survival Goddess! We got to meet last night and have dinner and drinks. They are wonderful!
*****WARNING***** major venting and the following is not happy or positive. Just MANY questions and my recording my thoughts.
I am still processing this new turn in our roller coaster ride.
H was planning on being in CA this coming Monday. Last night he sent me a page saying that he would not be down. He was supposed be here for a meeting, but it got cancelled.
I did not respond. This bothers me. I would have normally respond with, well all the more reason you need to join me in Florida. Or some other similar suggestion.
Right now I am hurt. H, you changed the game, again, to suit YOUR needs.
I have this huge battle within myself right now. I AM hurt by this. I know that it is just a piece of paper and that in the grand scheme of things it may or may not matter. I'm having a hard time with the "act as if", "validate", "be happy". I'm tired. Then this wave of guilt comes over me that if I DON'T do these things, and give up, it WILL be over. I don’t want to feel that I am not responding because I am hurt. That just seems like it is playing games to me. You hurt me, so I’m not going to respond. That is one of the things I have worked hard to change about me. But then I would like to be able to have a normal conversation about this with H. HA
I don't think I feel like this will force us into just being friends or that it some sort of imaginary tether that is holding us together. For some weird reason I still feel a bond between us. Maybe it was the 5 days we just spent together? Maybe its just wishful thinking and I need to get with reality.
I think what bothers me is that in Nov he IMPLIED that the papers weren't being turned in. Since then we have reconnected even more AND even from 2 states away. Some people can't do that while living in the same house yet we seem to be making progress. Then without warning, discussion or anything just a casual mention of "oh we need to close out our past to start new" Well which is it H? Are we starting new? Starting new when you can't even tell me IN PERSON or even on the phone, you have to tell me in RESPONSE to an email I sent inviting you away! What if I didn't send an email? I know that is crazy making thoughts.....
I have no say or control in this whatsoever. H gets to decide if we D or not. And once again, I have to put my feelings aside and let it go. And for what? So that H can relieve his guilt? See if we D then the events with OW over the summer suddenly become less of an impact. Well it wasn't REALLY cheating, you were S and ended up D. So that just made him feel better. GREAT! and the cost? H gets to pay for his issues with MY feelings. While I “act as if”?
I will probably get back on track. I just need time to process this and getting these thoughts out helps.
First, big apologies for sending you a post meant for Wonder, I was reading through both threads earlier and got a bit mixed up, obviously, with various windows from different threads open at the same time, so I will copy it onto her thread, and now continue to address you!
I really am sorry about the latest development. A lot of what I wrote to Wonder applies here too.
My H even mentioned that he would write to me, that he had composed many letters and not sent them, out of unsureness and cowardice. He still hasn't really sent me THE letter, as he said we had talked and already discussed everything really..... duh.... right.
This business about 'forgetting' to let the spouse know that they are going ahead with the divorce and all that, being told casually by email when you saw each other only recently..... bad.
And that stuff about the D making the A legitimate, yes, I have those same suspicions. My H allowed the legal separation to go ahead, even though we were connecting. He said there was no future for us, but unbeknownst to me he had OW no.2 scheduled to come over from abroad just a few days later. So that's OK then. Silly me.
Water, you say you have no say in all of this. That's why we have to get our own act together. We do have a say in THAT. If or when our Hs decide they want us after all, you WILL get a say in whether THAT happens.
You may find yourself in a sunnier place by then anyway and not WANT to move back towards H. Just fancy that. And getting our act togther is the biggest turn on to others!
Wish I could be more help, but I'm tired and plan an earlyish night. No panda eyes for when H comes to stay the weekend!
This road is so hilly and rocky, but yet a road we still continue to travel...
You HURT. He hurt you with his remark. And it always seems to hurt MORE because it comes so unexpectedly... we are getting along so well, surely he WON'T hurt me and then, wham... he does. That whole ordeal about my H going to Las Vegas w/ or w/out OW cut me to the core, cause I was standing there so open, so unprepared.
You told him you did not want the D. Maybe you can have an R talk about it... about trying to start anew without the D... You will have to figure that out.
As you said, you (again) have NO control over whether he gets this D or not. And YOU KNOW it will not change your feelings toward him or his toward you. I think my H feels the same about the D. If they get a D it in some crazy, lousy way makes the A less of a horrible thing in their mind... when the reality is, they still cheated. And the reality is, a simple apology and I'll never do it again, would suffice. And he WILL come to that realization sometime.
I know you feel betrayed, hurt angry... but nothing has changed in your sitch... things are still GOOD, things are moving forward. Your H just isn't standing on firm ground quite yet... but he's getting there.
What, did you think the road would straighten out and smooth over???
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I just got off the phone with H I asked where he thought we were. he said that we are working on our friendship
He said he is not looking for a long term relationship and that he is not able to do that, but that he is not looking to be a player either I asked if he was still involved with anyone else and he got a little angry and said how many times a day do i have to answer that question I said, she loves you; he said Who? I said OW He said he is not involved with her he asked why i was compelled to go through his stuff that maybe I shouldn’t be with someone I cannot trust. I said I don’t trust her. I told him I am searching for answers
he said that he feels we are making progress but that he thinks I want something long term I told him that I understand us wanting to put an end to our old relationship I just wish it wasn’t through this process. He said he understood both sides. I said maybe we could have a privet ceremony type thing to do away with the past. and see where it goes. I didn't wait for a response. Just said: just a suggestion.
he said he thinks that I have made so many good improvements and that I am twice the person I used to be he said to just keep being myself he asked if i was involved with anyone else; I told him no. That I don’t want to let anyone else into my life. That I know we still have things to work out, and that I would rather do that with someone I love and that I think still loves me. I told him I do want THE long term relationship with him that I know we can have and I know that we would have to go SLOW That if he called me tomorrow with some revelation that I was the one and asked me to move up there i would say, Hold on....
I just want to know that is what we are working towards he just said that he is not in a place to have a long term relationship I thanked him for taking the time to answer my crazy questions he said that they are not crazy and that it is good for us to have these talks I told him my offer to come to FL with me he said if it stays as busy as it has been he would consider it.
Water, I think you had a GREAT conversation with H. You handled it well, you were honest, careful not to be defensive or put him on the defensive. He must be still struggling deep inside (MLC?? )...they supposedly don't come out of that and stay out completely for a while. Who knows...? You just keep youself moving in a forward direction. Maybe you should keep you options open for your long-term future. Not date, necessarily, but enjoy the company of a male friend once in a while. Just a thought. I know you want your H only, I do too....but maybe they need to be reminded that others are attracted to us and who knows what the future holds.
I holding good thoughts for you and keeping you in my prayers.
All~ Well think I have sufficently beat myself up over the past few days events.
H is right about my snooping. I don't trust him. His actions don't create that. I felt like in our conversation yesterday that he felt free to use that as an excuse. "well, Laurie doesn't trust me, so see we shouldn't be together. You shouldn't be with someone you can't trust". But where is the thought process that Oh yeah, I"M NOT ACTING TRUSTWORTHY?
I really need to learn to PAUSE before I act. The phone call yesterday was not a good thing at that time. Both H and I agreed that having that R talk was a good thing. But I should have had a plan. I told him that OW loves him for crying out loud. That did nothing but make me look like a jealous fool. I should have had a plan as to what I wanted to say rather than just start talking with my heart.
When the final D papers come I will sign them. I will reply to H's email. Here is what I have come up with.
H- I have signed the divorce papers and returned them.
There are some other strings that we should take care of as well. I have paid your car insurance for March (270.00) You should probably look for a new policy as this one won't cover you if we are not married. Does this sound kind of like I am throwing this in his face? I'm open to suggestions here. I have been paying his car insurance cause I always thought in the end, it wouldn't matter as we would be together. It will be awhile before I am able to complete my company taxes and then carry that over to be able to have personal taxes prepared. You may want to just go ahead and have your personal taxes prepared as single. OK, this really sounds bad to me. But that is the reality. Yes, we could file MARRIED for 03, but we were S and didn't combine finances at all. Should I at this point take the stance of here are your realities? I will put together the files for your business and forward all of that to you. This is a CLEAR message that I will not be helping him with his business any longer. It all seems so mean. Like, OK H your deciding to go through with the D and now I'm taking back every offer to help you I've ever made. And why do I want to continue to help you? Once the Divorce is final you will no longer be covered under my dental or vision insurance plans.
H, I have held out the hope that we would be able to start NEW without going through this.
The ball is in your court. If you want to continue to see and feel the changes I have made within myself and will continue to make, well you know where to find me.
I hope this is able to provide you peace.
Always Water
I am really torn between being nice, which is normally what I do and feeling like I am cutting everything off with him. I guess I think that if I were H I would feel like Oh now because of this D, she has changed her whole tune and is now done. That somehow he thinks it shouldn't matter. I guess I just feel icky about the whole letter. It is not me, nor what I want.
Please give any comments you can. This is a whole new game and I'm not sure of the rules. Does this give the impression that I am TOTALY walking away? I am going to go dark unless he contacts me. At least for a while. I know there were so many positives and he seemed to be reaching out to me. I will continue to be there for him IF he reaches out to me.
Quote: ... I just feel icky about the whole letter. It is not me, nor what I want...
Then don't send it. You know what they say? ... when not sure ... do nothing. Give a few days. Lay low and let the emotions drain away. There is nothing in that letter that can't wait until next week. In time the words and tone you really want to use will come to you.
Water, plan to do something fun for yourself this weekend ... give yourself a break from all this over the weekend.
Today I had Lasik surgery on my eyes! H knew I was having it done today. When I got home from the eye doctor, there was a message on the home machine, my cell phone and my pager. All from H wanting to know how it went. I paged him that it went very well and that I was sleepy from the medicine they give and hoped to sleep the rest of the afternoon. He responded that he would call me later.
He called this evening. We had a nice talk about my eyes and his house buy adventures.
Then I went to get the mail. And sure enough THE papers were in there. I looked through them and it doesn't say what happens next or how long. So I called him. He said he did not know. I explained that I would be sending them out in the mail tomorrow. We did talk about his car insurance. He said, "what now I need to get my own insurance?" I said unless we are married, I don't know that you can remain on the policy. hummmm He asked what we should do about the payment. I suggested that I will continue to pay for the insurance and he pays for my flights to Seattle. He was excited over that..He liked that idea a lot! So confusion abounds.
H knew I was having it done today. When I got home from the eye doctor, there was a message on the home machine, my cell phone and my pager. All from H wanting to know how it went. I paged him that it went very well and that I was sleepy from the medicine they give and hoped to sleep the rest of the afternoon. He responded that he would call me later.