Quote: I'm a little ashamed to say it, but I try not to get too hopeful about P's changes being genuine. Every time I think she's finally "getting it", there's a major reversal to old behavior.
No need to feel ashamed about it, however it may be helpful for you to accept that you play a role in the cycle. No, I'm not saying you are responsible for her actions (emotional blow-ups etc) but you are responsible for the role you play in them. Do the actions/inactions you take feed the cycle or end it?
Sometimes the best way to elicit change in others is to make a change in ourselves...
oh no some one stop me I'm about to quote Michael Jackson...
I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to change his ways..
I'm with Tal on this 100%. I began to do that with my WAH last year. When he said something I didn't think was correct or felt the way it was said was inappropriate, I calmly said something like, "I don't care for the tone of your voice and find it offensive, why don't you call me back later when you are able to speak to me more respectfully. I'll talk to then. Bye." And I would hang up...he always called back and within no time...he learned to 'control' his tone and demeanor if he wanted to maintain contact with me. NOW...it's a "habit" with him to NEVER speak harshly.
It's just YOU setting YOUR personal boundaries with Pam. As Pam is struggling to balance her emotions (hopefully the doctor and she will find the correct dosage of her meds for her) and while she's doing that, she is still struggling to 'hold her tongue' when something 'triggers' her.
YOU however are not a dart board for her slings and arrows. When Pam is saying or doing something that YOU feel steps over YOUR personal boundaries, say so calmly and respectfully.
Silence (on your part) is more painful to her than your calmly stating your offense to her actions/words could ever be
It's good to see you here FINALLY opening up and getting real. Good for YOU!
T2
Quote: I see the "butthole" in you dissappearing and a new guy emerging. Work on you.
Deb
Actually, it was "buttwipe".
It's funny that you mentioned this. I'd been thinking that I'm not really sure I've changed. Maybe I just can't see it. I'm wondering if it's just that Pam's being more honest about what's really been going on with us and people are seeing the other side of the story, or if it's just that Pam's being more civil so it's easier to be nice to her. From things I've picked-up, it sounds like things have been presented in a very one-sided manner. I appreciate that she's being much more honest about things now.
I am posting to the BB more and opening up more, but the main reasons I'd stopped is that Pam had asked me to, and because she'd been reading my thread and not giving me the privacy she'd promised. (Actually, I suspect she's still reading it.)
Quote: I'm with Tal on this 100%. I began to do that with my WAH last year. When he said something I didn't think was correct or felt the way it was said was inappropriate, I calmly said something like, "I don't care for the tone of your voice and find it offensive, why don't you call me back later when you are able to speak to me more respectfully. I'll talk to then. Bye." And I would hang up...he always called back and within no time...he learned to 'control' his tone and demeanor if he wanted to maintain contact with me. NOW...it's a "habit" with him to NEVER speak harshly.
Actually, I'd tried that. Pam would just freak out when I did that because she thought I was being disrespectful to her. She'd start paging, e-mailing, IMing, calling, leaving voice mails, driving to find me, calling my family, etc. Now that she's more emotionally level, I'm thinking it might be time to try again though. Thanks to everyone for this suggestion.
Quote: It's just YOU setting YOUR personal boundaries with Pam. As Pam is struggling to balance her emotions (hopefully the doctor and she will find the correct dosage of her meds for her) and while she's doing that, she is still struggling to 'hold her tongue' when something 'triggers' her.
Yeah. I believe that's what was starting to happen this morning. I got the impression that Pam wasn't pleased about my posts on the joint thread.
Quote: YOU however are not a dart board for her slings and arrows. When Pam is saying or doing something that YOU feel steps over YOUR personal boundaries, say so calmly and respectfully.
You're very right.
Quote: Silence (on your part) is more painful to her than your calmly stating your offense to her actions/words could ever be
That's a very good point.
Quote: It's good to see you here FINALLY opening up and getting real. Good for YOU! T2
Difficult for me. Much of the recent absence from the BB has been because Pam had asked me to not post. Plus, I had the thread that got real ugly. I guess it was one of those times where I'd drawn a personal boundry.
Quote: Pam would just freak out when I did that because she thought I was being disrespectful to her. She'd start paging, e-mailing, IMing, calling, leaving voice mails, driving to find me, calling my family, etc.
Yep...I can see that!!!
Pam, gets like a wounded animal when she's desperate to connect with you. We (LBS) unfortunately act at times like children too. When a child can't get it's parent's attention they'll throw tantrums, cry, scream ANYTHING (even if it's totally obnoxious and will just tick the parent off more) to get the attention they want.
For some, negative attention is better than NO attention. So at times, Pam reverts back to being the scared child and in desperation acts like one.
There is no way to explain to someone (you for example) the feeling that the bottom has fallen out of your life because the person you love has turned to someone else.
It's difficult for US to understand how our spouse, who is in emotional pain, turns to someone else for comfort instead of us...it takes US a long time to realize our part in the dissolution of our relationship and come to the point where we accept the fact that our WAS was in pain too.
I think we become desperate to know WHERE and HOW we failed you in your eyes so that we can understand where we went wrong...and we want desperately for you to know where we feel YOU went wrong. It takes TWO people to build the walls that separate a relationship, and when a third person enters the picture...it gives the one that's brought them into the triangle an advantage because they have someone to comfort them...the LBS is left alone to suffer the breakdown of the relationship.
This is a good place for you to post as your sharing YOUR side of the story, helps LBS to see 'life' from the 'other' side. T2
T2 put the nail on the head! Most of us here are on this side of the fence and your input is welcome because now we can see it from the other side. As Caly told me when I first started coming here; put yourself in your H's shoes, walk in them. this is the only way to understand that what happened didn't happen to just us but you guys too.
I can say that I totally empathize with you guys! Because when I look at what you are going through, it is worse than what I went through, and believe me I thought I was in he//!
Once we can accept and move forward, you all are dealing with not just yourself and what you have done but another person has been involved. Now what do you do with both a wife and a mistress, who do you choose, who do you hurt. Because, someone IS going to be hurt! And knowing you are the cause of this hurt, is not a walk in the park!
Some make the right choices, some end up realizing that they made the wrong choice and then it's usually too late to correct it.
I for one are glad you came back, you're right, boundaries were drawn and we only saw one side. I decided ALL are welcome here, I don't just think of you as Pam's H, I think of you as a WAS who needs support and who can give the rest of us insight on what goes on with you.
You must realize that we are the LBS so when one of the "enemies" come here, we feel the hurt. We didn't mean to lash out at you.
A lesson learned, listen before passing judgement!
So let it all hang out! Educate us, LOL! And so what if Pam reads your threads, maybe it will wake her up!
Long time...your post to BNB reminded me of myself (and your post to me) last December when it became clear to me that MY H had feelings for OW, yes it was devastating, but really I should have figured it out myself. I just didn't want to know/hear it/feel it.
in you dissappearing and a new guy emerging. Work on you.