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Hi, I was just catching up on your thread and in your last post there were a couple of things that i wanted to offer my view on but feel free to disregard as your clearly doing a good job.



I always took this as criticism and immediately got defensive, how its not my fault or that I dont need to do things. Or I would do what i thought was right rather than asking what was needed. For one of the big issues in my relationship if my wife had said 'I need you to sit with me and hold me' instead of 'You always just abandon me' I would have known different and been much more likely to correct my behaviour



Have you thought about initiating more of this, show him what you want rather than wait to see if he will give it freely - it might be he is uncertain to approach because of all the other issues. it might be he feels awkward and anxious about this stuff.



I would just say be careful of this. it might be just a comment but thoughts like this can lodge and turn into resentment which isnt good for anyone. it may be true but its in the past, his debt is part of him now (regardless of how he built it up) and if you are to stay together its something you need to tackle together



This ^^^^^^

Yes, yes and yes.

Here's what I've learned through reading (and experience): Men are natural "fixers." My H has been *astounded* when I've told him that a lot of times, when I vented to him about the kids, I WAS NOT asking him to help or fix it. When we complain, most men will naturally feel beat-up on. They feel we're taking it out on them. They feel we're telling them we're unhappy ... and that they need to FIX it! (This came as a shock to ME, as a woman. I had read about it but never thought my H felt that way. So I asked him about it one day. Surprise of all surprises: he did/does feel that way!)

And when we get quiet and catty about things? That's even worse. They KNOW something is wrong. But they feel we are expecting them to mind-read. They have NO idea what's wrong ... or what they need to fix. And truth be told: We ARE expecting them to mind-read. Which isn't fair.

Bottom line: based on what I've read and lived and experienced, men and women communicate COMPLETELY differently. A lot of times, we as women expect men to read our minds. And when they *don't* read our minds, or do for us what we want/need them to do (when we've never taken time to tell them what we want/need), we pout and/or give them the silent-treatment and/or get huffy and puffy. We take it personally. Men, meanwhile, WANT to fix things. But a lot literally don't know how to please their female partner/spouse. They actually *appreciate* being told what it is that will make us happy.

So I need to be clear about what I NEED not just what bothers me. I need you to do XYZ not ABC bothers me.

Ahhhhhh .... yeah. Another thing I'm guilty of: not telling H what it is that I want/need until I'm already angry about him not meeting that particular need. And I don't give it enough time to settle down to make my delivery less frustrated. Sometimes, we don't KNOW what we want/need until after an event has happened that makes it clear to us. That's okay, too. But we should commit to ourselves that we will not approach our spouses - and deliver that want/need - until we've settled down a little and can deliver it in a calm, rational way. (I'm still working on this. )

So, yes, I'd absolutely say that your first step is to make a list of what you need/want - your non-negotiables (there's that word again) - from your H to help you get through this nightmare. Deliver it in a loving, gentle way, acting as if he absolutely wants to (and WILL) meet those needs. And give the fella a chance.

(As far as me? We're doing a lot better. I've absolutely bypassed the "acceptance" stage with my sweet D18 and am actively supporting her and making outfits/blankets/bows ... because IT'S A GIRL!!!!! ... and growing excited for May! We're halfway there! Thank you for asking, sweet lady! xoxo)

Gosh Train. You hit the nail on the head with everything I have done, been doing and have continued to do with H in regards go not the right way to communicate. Really and truly what I need from his is pretty simple. I just want to feel important and like I matter. I want him to go back to the man he was for the last few months that seems to have disappeared these last few weeks. I know he is stressed about work. He tends to coil up in a corner when he's stressed ... This is how we got to BD and OW before because he was stressed and I was quiet and short about his lack of attention and when I thought we were happy it only took a couple weeks for our world to be turned upside down

I just get very anxious that he's thinking about OW or just not going to come home again because last time I had no warning (heIl we slept together the day before!). So now when I see him on his phone texting it stresses me out and my tension rises which probably changes how I communicate with him. I guess I just feel like we are in a similar situation as him being stressed and now he's not acting towards me the way he is. When I bring up to him that he seems distant and isn't very affectionate towards me his answer his he's stressed. Just not sure how to handle that. I did tell him I need him to be more affectionate to me and I need him to show me im important to him like he used to. He just said okay and I left it at that.

And a girl!! Yay congrats!!! I always have secretly been jealous of all the beautiful little girls clothing when I shop! Best wishes to you and your family in 2015. Thanks again for guiding me through this maze.

Jim - thanks for the perspective. I appreciate it. I can see where I tell H i don't like when he does things rather than approaching it another way and it can seem accusatory.

TO324...

Looks like you stopped doing what worked to bring him back.

Some men need a challenge.. or they get bored..

I remember you were going out and having a good time and even wondered if you wanted him back..... seems like that's when he suddenly started to pursue you.... when you were pulled back and seemed happy doing it is when he came back toward you... or have you forgot that important part?

I would go back to that if I were you...
Stop any and all relationship talks.. Go into your own "little world".. Start doing things without him......

Text others while he is around......

Less talk.. own little world.. out having fun. enjoying life.....

Seems to me that is what worked before....
Sometimes the way to get a man's attention is to let him wonder what YOU are thinking and up to.....

Just sayin..

I think you should address each of these with the MC.

Don't talk in the terms of what had happened (other then the "stressed" comment). Talk about future behaviors and goals. I say that in the context: some worry about counseling becomeing a referee's judgement. Share your concerns, and hopefully he/she can give you both some tools to help.

Any suggestion on how to deal with this until we get to MC? I have told him like I posted i needed him to be more affectionate. So far I havent seen a change

Sure. If it was me:

1. Pick a good time to talk about this (NOT during a bowl game, not while he is under the hood of the car, not when he is on his way out the door).

2. Don't talk about the past (could have should have would have); Talk future: "I would like you to be more affectionate" And give examples of what you would like (I would like you to kiss me good night, I would like you to sit next to me on the couch, I would like you to initiate ML)

3. REWARD HIS GOOD BEHAVIORS! Acknowledge his affection: "hey H, I liked it when you kissed me and bought me those flowers, it made me feel loved/wanted/desired/etc.", then follow it up with a(n) unsolicited ______ (feel free to fill in the blank with anything "adult" you want).

4. Follow up: if there are good behaviors/changes, mention that with praise in MC the next time you are there.

Can you plan an "emergency" date night, T0? Something this weekend? Something RELAXING and fun?

The reason I'm asking is because I think a conversation that needs to be taken so seriously needs to REALLY be taken seriously, with little to no distractions.

I've noticed we can't really "endorse" - or even mention - other books here anymore. That's sad, because several align with most of the DB principles but focus more on the piecing stage (after busting the divorce). HNHN, which I've probably mentioned to you before, focuses on men's needs and women's needs. And how to affair-proof a marriage ... instead of "only" how to work on ourselves - and our Ms - when they're on the brink. In other words, it's more *proactive* about how to keep the M from hitting the brink in the first place. It's a GREAT accompaniment book to DB/DR for the piecing stage.

Anyway, point is: your best bet to get your H to meet your needs is to meet HIS. The problem is: The top two needs of most men is sex and admiration/adoration. Women - understandably - have a VERY hard time meeting those needs if their male spouses aren't meeting OUR top-two needs: affection and intimate conversation. Because we look at sex as an emotional experience, whereas most men literally need it *physically*. For that reason, it's preferable if the man leads the charge on meeting his W's needs of affection and intimate conversation. Because that makes her WANT to meet his needs of sex, adoration and admiration.

Does that make sense?

That's the talk you need to have with your H, IMO.

And then hope he's really still into piecing like you are.

If not? Then you're back to asking yourself if this is the man you want to be with.

Give him some wiggle-room, sure. But because he cheated, he MUST be willing to give you what you need to overcome this and create a more rock-solid M. If he isn't willing? Your M is still in trouble. It's hard enough to try to "piece" when the formerly-cheating spouse is going above and beyond to meet the X-LBS's needs. I speak from experience.

Thinking of you. And hoping you can really level with your H on this issue. Soon. You deserve it, sweetie.

We really don't have any time for a date night until next weekend... So that will have to do for now.

I really just don't know what to say or how to approach it. I am scared that maybe he is second guessing his choice to be in this M. He was so gung go on doing every and anything he needed to do to make thing right with me. I don't know if it was too much too soon and he's second guessing himself. A big part of it is financial stress. That. I know for a fact. When I asked him what his new years resolution was the only thing he said was to get himself back together financially and get this new job.

I know I can/will be fine without him but that's not what I want. however I want to be in a M where I know and feel that my H loves and appreciates me. Here's to hoping this is a bump in the road. I really need to look into some other books because I'm struggling. On one hand I want to be the fixer and make everything better. On the other hand I feel like why am I making the effort, he left, he cheated what am I doing? Enabling him further? That I will try even harder? I'm not desperate.

I just want to know what happened? What happened to stop the guy he was the last few months to now. they are so opposite each other it's insane.

Part of me feels like he's depressed. He doesn't even want to talk much. He is full of yes, Ya, and okays. It's like dragging a conversation out of him. It makes me feel so unattractive and unwanted. This was the person that couldn't wait to talk to me and made me feel great. I guess maybe It seems worse because it's been taken away and I know he's capable of it. This is going to be a LONG week because I work this whole week and we won't be able to attend MC til the following week. I don't even know how to act or what to say. I feel like I'm back to stage 1 of all of this.

Thank you