Thanks Karen and Renew for the support. I'm going to answer your posts in a little bit after I calm down.
I just need a place to vent right now. I feel so violated. Probably a good thing I cancelled my get together with W. I called her to tell her I wasn't going to be able to make it tonight because of plans I forgot about.
She was in a meeting and called me back. I haven't seen her in two weeks but we've been talking on the phone every couple of days for short periods, 5 to 10 minutes. All that I'm allowed.
She was pleasant and upbeat and so was I. She said she was really busy and could only talk for a minute, so NO PRESSURE right? I told her I was going to need to reschedule because of a photography class and she said FUN.
I asked if it would be alright if I could have our dog for this weekend, it would really mean a lot to me. She said no, I already have her going somewhere so it wouldn't be alright. I just said ok.
Right now I don't know whether to be sad or pissed off. She is going away for the weekend with OM while her business is floundering and I am trying to do everything I can to help her and her business and I can't even see our dog. I'm so tired of this one way BS.
I'm really trying not get bitter and resentful but thats all I can feel right now. Just hurt and pissed. I know its only a dog and not a child, but what does she have to lose by letting me have her?
Ok, more calm now. I'm chalking up my conversation with her as more defense mechanisims coming out since I got too close to her deep emotions last time. It was very emotional for her and needs some space. She won't let me see the dog because she feels I would get too close to her. It is too much like child custody for her and she doesn't want me to get too close right now for whatever reason.
When she is very emotional and crying and crying, she says she can't see me when she is like that. She can't come to the house and she can't talk to me and can't see me. Is this when she feels the most unsure about what she is doing? I think it might be. Do I listen to her and keep away, or do I recognize this as when she is most vulnerable and doubtful and go see her anyway?
I will not let this get me down. I have developed a list of DOs and DO NOTs whenever I talk with her. I will review them before every interaction to remember what my objectives are. Understanding, validating, kindness, gentleness, care, concern, and PATIENCE. I will always put my armour suit on before I go into another conversation with her to protect myself.
To others out there, has your love for WAS dwindeled as the process has gone on? Do you begin to feel resentful at times?
Yes, I need to continue to do my best at listening and validating. Her letter was very important, so my next interaction with her is to validate those things she shared with me in the letter. Part of the reason I'm not flipping out right now since she is pulling away after the letter. But you are right, they need to hear it again, and again, and again, and again. Not convincing, just understanding, listening and validating.
As for the C, she wouldn't go in the beginning. I'm not so sure she would go now, but I can only ask. Not now but later, timing is everything. She will know it is an option. Who knows, maybe she will change her mind down the road. I keep taking steps along this long road.
Have been trying to take care of myself these past few days and figure out where I am. I have concluded that I still do love my WAW very much. I am going to try and keep calling her WAW until she openly acknowledges a desire to reconcile to help me remember the state of mind she is in rght now.
I have also concluded that the negativity I felt and continue to feel at times is more resentment and pain I feel for having to go down this path alone. I take great comfort in the fact I have the knowledge and have been provided with the skills and support here on the BB to continue this great endeavor, the largest one I have ever undertaken. I thank each and every one of you for your support and sharing your words and experiences with me.
Missing My Hubby - You pointed out some truths that helped me clarify what I'm feeling now. Its not that I don't love WAW, its just that I feel hurt and pain when I dwell on her actions and how they effect me and my emotions. So I will make an effort to not let those feelings get to me, not let her actions have control over how I feel, and realize that I have the knowlege to understand all of this and help me deal with it.
RJ - Thanks for your continued support and pep talks, I really need them. It is nice to have someone else's opinions on my sitch because it is too easy to get lost in the process and emotions. It is nice to get "perspective" on it, and you always provide me with a good wake up call. You make a really good point about the dog, it is really close to her heart. I will approach this subject very gently.
Eddy - Thanks for your continued support. I'm thinking you are definitely right on the crying, probably feels both right now and is teetering and confused. I do need to be consistent and strong to open her up even more. This is about her and not so much about who I am now. I just need to continue to show her who I am now. Focus on the present and the future and not so much on the past.
All of this has made me realize a number of things. When I sat down and made a list of Baby Steps I have seen, the list was pretty good. Not as signifcant as I would have hoped for, but I'll take what I can get at this point. I might share them if anyone is interested.
The key to all of this is continuing her feeling of being understood and opening up more. I am going to try and do even more of this. We're planning to meet on Tuesday to talk about US and I'm going to use this opportunity to understand her and validate her. I'm going to ask some questions, but I AM NOT going to try and convince her, ask her to think about anything, or challenge anything she says. Just to UNDERSTAND HER and then give us some time to think.
You really have it going on here, seattle. What a fantastic attitude you've developed.
Quote: I was the cold and distant one, emotionally unavailable, would try to convince her of my views when she tried to talk to me about her feelings. I acted like a control freak, had to have my way. I was insensitive to her feelings. I wasn't always this way, but became this way. I am no longer this way, now I am the fantastic H that W fell in love with.
She has unworthiness of love issues, disrespect issues, and abandonment issues. She has a tough time communicating because of fear of rejection. She will go fishing with little bait and expect me to see it and bite. I need to get better at recognizing the bait no matter how small and be open. Her initial response to all things when she feels threatened is to rebel, run away, or say no.
This is how my H and I were too... only genders reversed. I never saw myself that way at all, but I found out he was experiencing me that wayand making lots of assumptions that were way off base. I did do the immediate 180, but a little too much (maybe a 190?) and it wasn't the right time for that, so I wouldn't say you missed an opportunity there. I think you're doing great! Esp. advantageous that you did not do the hysterics. I did, to poor results.
Your C question is one I have wondered about too. I have done IC and my H did it very briefly and recently started again in IC. Wanted no part of MC.
What I see, even in IC, is the negativity Christine mentioned. Lots of dwelling on what was wrong and how awful it felt, not on how to repair it and how good it could feel-- even the pro-M ones. I don't think I'd even consider doing MC with someone who was not solution-oriented and familiar with DB.
Keep up the amazing work and I suspect you won't need MC!
Writer, yes, it is an up and down rollercoaster, it is up to us most of the time to make it go up. Do you have an IM address? Yahoo?
Wonder, thank you for the words of encouragement, as I'm sure you experience sometimes this journey is hard on the PMA.
My questions regarding C either IC or MC also apply to the WAS and if they even have a desire to go or not. I'm surprised my WAW refuses to go at all to work on our M, at least that was the way she was four months ago. Her reply was only to go and get to where I am feeling now, its too much hard work. Sounds like another excuse to me, considering that they think we will never change. So at this point, it is discouraging she refuses to go.
I meet with her tomorrow, I'm going to see if she wants to go out to dinner, somthing she has always enjoyed doing with me. I am reviewing all of the things she has shared with me in her letter and our last discussion. I am going to review to make sure I will be on the same wavelength as her before meeting with her.
Then when I see her, I'm going to be warm, open, gentle, and kind and be sensitive to what her mindset is at that time and what she really is saying to me. I will of course listen and validate her feelings. Reiterate what she states and monitor her reactions. Wishing for the best.
Great news Seattle... Sounds like you have a recipe here that will only add to more baby steps???
Just a thought, maybe you could go ahead and plan the dinner and tell her that if she would like to go this is what you were thinking of and leave it at that. Just a different twist on "asking for her approval" but I'm not sure this works in your sit. Would it be a 180 for you to go ahead and MAKE the plans as opposed to ASKING for her input? Whichever one looks better would be a good choice.
As for dicussion, from my experience, I have played out what I wanted to say in my head, wrote things down and revisited them numerous times before I discuss things w/WAS so that I am ready and things sound more accurate. I have found it to help me so I am doing it the DB way and not flying off the cuff. It actually worked for me several times during my discussions coz H seemed more interested and shocked at my responses which helped keep the convo going.
One other note, you may want to limit the convo so you don't get barraged w/lots of bad things from W even though she wants to vent; it just is a lot to take in at once and be able to respond appropriately. Maybe you could ask her to limit the convo to some extent (maybe even during the course of it) and then revisit it again next week, 2 wks, etc.. so that you both have time to regroup.
Just some ideas that might help you w/meeting. Take 'em or leave 'em.
As for C, I know you don't have to be reminded but give it time. Maybe after you talk and things soften a bit more, it may be an option down the road. My H finally gave into it 1yr after S even though he wasn't totally convinced about it. I'm not sure it was good but we started to go so keep that in the back of your mind. Maybe it will happen one day.
Looks like you are on the way up. As Karen said, maybe ask in a different way than before?
I my WAW is going to C only to appease me, she said, "I'm only going for you," and she has no interest currently in working on M. I think they want to feel good about themselves that they "help" us through this.
Thanks for the input. Karen, yes it is a positive for me to show concern and attention but need to balance that with a vibe of non-pursuit, so it is a delicate balance. She just called and I suggested we could go grab a bite, she said that would be ok and she said you pick the place and I'll meet you there.
I do write down all of my thoughts before any face to face interaction with her so I am centered on what my goals are, how I want to leave her feeling, what I'm going to say, and the messages I want to convey. It is an excellent idea, I may overanalyze too much.
It is really difficult to ask for anything out of these conversations about US since she continues to express her desire for a D and is not very open to talk about much else in respect to US. Maybe I will just say I am overwhelmed and use her words and say I need some time.
I would like everyone's opinion on this - she just got back from a weekend away with OM, her first with another man other than me. Last week she was trying to avoid getting together on Tuesday, today. She always tries to avoid Tuesdays as she says, it is her only personal day and only day off. I know OM also has these days off. But she agreed to meet me tonight last week and we just reconfirmed.
I'm thinking if she has been with him all weekend, with him all day today, and then meets me for dinner, how will that impact my encounter with her?
I'm hoping to jack up my PMA before our meeting, talk about all the interests and friends I have been involved with, be a babbling brooke, and basically just a cool friend. I also need to validate a lot of the things she had said in her letter. I will be understanding and really listen.
I guess I'm confused on how the impact of her doing all of these things with OM right before seeing me will impact her thoughts about us. If I leave her with a good impression, I guess that is the main objective. Make her feel like she is crazy for leaving me. Any thoughts?
