Quote: I mean, just the fact that we stick by our S's when they are going through their junk makes us the most admirable type of people. Think how much of the world is reacting to what others say/do and we are beyond that. Hey, ever write up that list of all the great things about you!
Standing by our Ss I think makes us true to our own values and allows us the peace that we are living with integrity. That's so important in the long run, no matter what happens in the M. (and for me, seeing the many men standing for their Ms on this board really gives me hope for the future should my H stay on the D train.)
I think going through this process has opened my eyes to all sorts of other interactions-- mine and others. It's helped me become more "me" and less of who I wish not to be.
I like your list idea. My girlfriends and I make lists each year-end of at least 25 things we consider accomplishments in the year (can be anything). I recommend it.
Seattle, about the PMS, the key is to just go into any conversation with the idea in the back of your mind that her emotions might be all over the place, and that's often already the case for some of the WAS.
Yes, she might be opening up more then and don't discourage her by any means, but don't push either.
I'll give you an embarrassing example: right around the bomb time, my hormones were so out of whack that I actually broke down in tears in anger at my puppy for refusing to walk down the stairs (basically I yelled at him for being a puppy, yes).
Now if you knew me, you'd be as stunned by that as I was at the time. SO not me. Another time I just completely overreacted to something H was saying-- it just hit a trigger and I was off.
And I used to think my friends who talked about PMS were crazy because I never had those experiences before. High stress situations + PMS can be a tricky combo.
Betsey's analogy was great. I just haven't figured out what ultimately turns the no into a yes that sticks.
Great idea you gave me on the crying thing. This does show ultimate care and concern for them while exhibiting selfless sacrifice. Got me thinking hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
RJ
You always help bring me back up. You are right the no pressure is key. I'm going to relax more and give off less of an anxious vibe around her. Less rigid body language. Got to balance that with being emotionally available and safe to approach while not overly eager, BALANCE KEY.
She feels suffocated easily, I have to be aware of that. I also have to be aware of the common interests and business importance to her. All things that have been working. I like your analogy of playing the supporting actor. Little baby steps. I have that list half started, I'm resetting my goals first, for me, then for us, then doing the positives about me. Lots of work, this is a full time job!
You are so unbelievalbe in your attitude going through what you have been through lately. You are such a great great woman for keeping such an open heart. I think all DRers strive for such an attitude in everything we do. You are really an inspiration to everyone.
Thanks for sharing on the PMS thing! Us guys have no understanding of it other than when we get pissy sometimes. I hear you that she will be all over the place. But I think that was the good I found in it, since she never reveals any doubts usually and the ones she has verbalized has been when she is PMSing. I'll have to think of non-pressuring questions to draw her out without forcing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Like when she says she is confused, maybe I could say I can understand how you could feel confused, this has been the most confusing time in my life. Could we explore our confusion together? Any ideas anyone?
I get your point, don't be alarmed if the emotions come out negatively because the defense systems may be hyper sensitive. I have seen that side too, not often. Mostly its emotional crying and confusion and she opens up more, not anger but I'll keep that in mind.
Quote: This detaching while being friends thing is really tough!
Looks like things are going good. Your patience and attitude are very good. Keep consistent. I still think it funny, we now have to be conscious and think about our actions and words.
Went to go pick up our dog today, of course at the business and not at her place. She still won't let me go to her place, not since I helped her move in. But she feels she can come to the house at anytime.
Got there and her business partner that backed out of opening the business was there. They were hanging out chit chatting. When I got there the dog was very happy to see me and jumped all over me, gave me kisses, etc. Her business partner said "someone is happy to see you" and that felt good. Of course WAW wouldn't come join in the small talk. One of the other girls wanted to show me a "new" trick our dog learned, to roll over. I taught the dog this trick initially but she wasn't real good at it when she left the house. Now she is better. I asked the girl if she taught the trick and she said someone else did. That really upset me. I just smiled and said I have to take at least half credit because I started it. We joked around how spazstic the dog is around food and the trick is difficult for her because of it.
As soon as her former business partner left WAW was all about business, giving me the leash, the dog's food, and when I could bring her back. I told WAW her doctor called to confirm her appointment tomorrow and she had no clue so I said I would call her later.
She of course had to ask about D papers and if I looked at them and could bring them to her tomorrow. I almost broke down right there. Bring them tomorrow, we just had dinner on Tuesday. I just smiled and said no, I will look at them. I then turned around and walked out the door and said see you later. Maybe not the best way to handle it but it was better than getting angry or crying, so I just left.
I guess her ice wall is in full force today especially since I get the dog today. I am trying not to let it get me down and be secure in the knowledge that is what she is doing. She feels suspicious about me having the dog.
I will not let it get me down. I will just enjoy my time with our little girlie. I just went to petco and bought her a bunch of stuff! I will take her down to the beach and let her chase seaguls, maybe we will even see a sea lion in the water like last time. She got really scared of the sea lion barking at her while she was swimming.
Ha, I like Foreigner, I just never thought that song would apply to me so much. Thanks for the laugh.
WAW called me at home all anxious about her doctors appointment I mentioned to her and don't forget to call me to tell me about it. I didn't feel like talking to her so I didn't call back until 11:30p and just said we had company over and they just left, sorry for the late call.
Her cell phone rang like it had been kept on intentionally. She "usually" turns it off like she explained in detail the other day and just checks messages. She did call early in the evening. I wonder if she did want to talk or come over last night after being so cold earlier that day. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I'm detaching a little more each day, but still really tough. I don't know if I'll ever be "detached" and I know she is not and will not be (she cries too much). I still want this to work, but I'm through putting my heart on the line. I'm working on a "validation letter" to give her following up on our last conversation. Validating her statements of why she doesn't want to try again and how she is fearful that if she does it might not work. What do you guys think about that?
Journaling WAW called and said asked how the dog was doing. She said she went into dog withdrawl last night. I said she was adorable and slept in bed with me she slept like a rock and didn't fuss. I said I'm sorry you were in withdrawl.
She said she saw The Passion of Christ and she said "we" had to leave because it was so bloody. I just retailiated with more "we" comments referring to who I saw it with. Neither one of us asked who we saw it with.
She said I never called her about her doctors appointment and I said I did and to check her vmail. She said she hates her darn phone.
I then said "we" taught the dog a new trick to shake hands and she said nooooooo, I don't want her to know that trick in a giggly tone. I just said too late, she knows already and she picked it up real quick. She kinda chuckled and said she had to go answer a phone.
I've got to do better at keeping these conversations light and no pressure or bad feelings. Good feelings building on friendship. Take the pressure off. No threat in talking with me. I drop off the dog later tonight so I need to get my mind right before seeing her.
there has been nothing more successful for me than to have a smile on my face when I am speaking to my W and when not to smile during the convo. and laughter is the key to it all. with laughter, there is no pressure. and WE ALL know how funny you can be (especially in spandex!)
showing a PMA to her even when hurting will do wonders on the pressure she and you will feel.
you are exactly right.....Good feelings build the friendship. No one wants to be friends with a grumpy, vindictive non smiling pity party.
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
