I had a few threads earlier on when I first started posting and should have stuck to just one but I was new then and did not know how. Anyway at the moment, yes, I come here whenever I feel like venting. Its a great place to rant and rave and put down all my thoughts and feelings, something I used to do to my H by sending him emails (boy was that the wrong thing to do). I'm glad I found this place to vent instead. After that I move forward and don't look back. I'm too embarrassed to see what I had written when I was feeling down. No wonder H takes it badly when I used to write to him about stuff like that.
I mentioned in Honeypots thread that I was due anytime soon for my second baby. H and I are pretty excited and very busy planning and preparing for the new addition to our family. So no time for me to dwell on the SSM. And since that is probably the only issue we can't come into agreement with, everything else is going well. Thanks for asking.
BTW, my H had a PA too earlier on in our relationship and I have some thoughts on that for you but I shall post that in your thread instead.
Night for me here. I did the Relationship Health test from Tim's thread and was happy to score an 11. I emailed the test to H at work to see if he perceived our M the same way I did and as usual, he ignored it. I think the first statement in the test must have freaked him out ie. "I am satisfied with our sex life." He probably did not read much further than that. Later in the evening I teased him and asked him why he did not do the questionnaire I sent him and he brushed me aside quickly and changed the subject and pretended to go to sleep instead.
My H is just so closed up when it comes to any relationship talks. My question is how do I get him to open up a little more or do I just leave him as he is and not try to "force" him to become someone he isn't. Its just that one of my LL is WOA and I do so need to hear him say ILU etc but H claims that Action speaks louder than words (can you tell that his LL is AOS?)
Has anyone here had any success in "teaching" their S how to speak their LL? I really, really would like to "teach" my H to open up to me a bit more so we can talk about us but I simply have no clue how. He talks to me easily about anything else, family, work problems etc but when it comes to us, he just clams up and thats where it matters to me most. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
LH, You might want to try the notebook approach. My spouse and I did a Marriage Encounter weekend last fall and the neat thing we got out of that was using notebooks to write answers to relationship questions and then read the others answer and then talk about it. You also might want to find a list of emotion words, as one is working on being a re-formed Vulcan in terms of emotion, that might help him.
He also may be reluctant to talk as "relationship talks" in my house used to be a list of things that I was doing wrong and therefore causing the problems. It was this approach that would make me reluctant to want to do those talks.
Just a couple of things.
Scott
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Thank you for sharing your experience and insight. The notebook idea is nice but I don't think it will work with H. As for the negative connotations in R talks scaring him off, now, that makes sense and I shall try to avoid that. He totally shuts down when it comes to this kind of talk (claims he's shy) so any "list of things that he does wrong" will probably shut him up forever. Hmmm
I hope you're reading this. If not, I'll post it again somewhere where you will find it. Anyway I am reproducing your post to splitenz here for my own benefit as I find it really useful and did not want to disrupt her thread. I have a few questions I hope you can answer though.
Dbrookie said:
Depression, job stress, kids, and a lot of other factors can play a big role in LD.
This is what is affecting my H too, I think.
The one big lesson from SSM is that YOU have to change to get HIM to change. LD H won't do it without something changing. In my case...the HD W had to move out.
Tell me Dbrookie, what do you think the HDW can change about themselves without resorting to moving out.
Some men...like me...actually need to feel loved, appreciated, confident, etc. to get our engines going. I would be willing to guess that he has a lot of sexual thoughts, but he's not able to act on them for whatever reason. Could be some mental hang-ups or how even you deal with him about it. Don't take that too personal.
Dbrookie, what do you think your W could have done to get your engine going?
How stressful is his job? Does he talk about the pressure of his work? Does he FEEL like he has a lot of pressure to provide the bulk of the $$$? I used to be the only breadwinner...and let me tell you...feeling like if you were to loose your job that everything would fall apart can crush your sex drive.
Yes Dbrookie, my Hs job is very stressful and I am well aware that the stress of being the main/only breadwinner is killing his libido. I have tried to reduce his stress as much as I can (although he says I add to them sometimes). So what would you suggest a HDW do to in such a sitch to bring the "crushed" sex drive back? I am at a total loss as to how to handle this. I mean this stress will not go away and even if I do return to work there will be other stresses, so how does one help the H get the sex drive back as there will always be stressors. I understood that my H had a lot of stress and waited patiently by for one by one of them to be handled and we have managed to get over most of them but I am always the last priority. I am still waiting........
Take stock that with some support, patience, and help...he can come around again. He wasn't always like this...right?
I have given support, lots of patience and help and yet I am still waiting......for H to come around.
No...but you can start the ball in motion. You can't force him to read the book...but try this....find a passage that expresses how you feel...make a photocopy...and leave it for him. Try it a little bit at a time....
Oh, I've tried that too but of course if did not work, H only got more angry and pressured.
OK...so what does he say the problem is besides timing?
Well, in my case, H says theres no problem, even after not touching me for 2 years, so what do you say to that?
Sorry, this has been rather lengthy but I thought that your post was rather useful to me. Thanks.
REMEBER THIS: Plus Ça Change, Plus C'est La Même Chose. (The more things change, the more they stay the same)
Quote:
This is what is affecting my H too, I think.
Sure...if you read any statistics on sexual problems you will find this:
A low sex drive can be a product of a man’s poor emotional health. This can be caused by a number of things including:
Stress: Stress attacks both our desire for sex and the ability to become aroused and climax. Either sudden high levels of stress or lower but prolonged levels of stress can interfere with sex.
Exhaustion/too busy: Being tired either physically or emotionally takes a toll on us. As with stress this can be a sudden surge, or a long term chronic condition. People who don't have enough time are forced to cut things out, and sex may be cut just because it was never really a high priority.
Depression: Even mild depression can destroy sex drive and/or sexual function. Individuals with mild depression may be able to function with apparent normalcy in some aspects of sexuality, but be totally non-functional in other aspects.
Relational: Good sex requires a good relationship. Unsettled issues, feeling unloved, feeling unimportant, and lack of respect can all cause a person to not want to be sexual.
Intimacy: If non-sexual intimacy is lacking, sexual intimacy may feel awkward or even wrong. There can be a lag of many years between the loss of non-sexual intimacy and the refusal of sex.
Anger/Resentment: Often a person is knowingly or unknowingly refusing sex as a way of retaliating for real or imagined wrongs. This is passive/resistive behavior. Another version of this is the spouse who says yes to sex, but rarely or never allows themselves to enjoy it.
Control: A spouse may use sex as a carrot to encourage wanted actions, or sexual refusal as a stick to punish unwanted actions. If the person who is supposed to be controlled "refuses to play," sex may stop all together.
Habit: If not having sex, or having very little sex, goes on for a long time, it can become a bad habit. Being sexual no longer feels natural, and other things usurp the time and energy that should go into sex.
Quote: Tell me Dbrookie, what do you think the HDW can change about themselves without resorting to moving out.
Do a 180. Whatever you have been doing ain't working. So stop it. Think about what you do now...and do the opposite. BUT you might actually have to move out to get the point across. My W had to move out to get me to wake up and to break some of her control over me. Of course...how she is the one that doesn't want to have sex with me. But anyway...
Quote: Dbrookie, what do you think your W could have done to get your engine going?
Well, she didn't really know how to communicate with me without being condescending and nagging. Instead of saying..."Come ML to me you sexy thing you!!!"...she would say "Why don't you ever want to have sex with me?" A lot of her things were non-verbal communication...like walking around naked and other things. I'm a verbal person...that's what I needed. You need to figure out what jump starts your LD H.
Quote: So what would you suggest a HDW do to in such a sitch to bring the "crushed" sex drive back?
First off...you are NOT his last priority. I got this crap all the time from my W. He wouldn't be busting his ass and all stressed out because he liked it...he's doing it for you and his family. Now he might be over doing it and needs to manage stress better...but he's probably afraid of failing to provide for his family. So you are his top priority..and he probably doesn't want you to have to worry about all the things he worries about.
Quote: I have given support, lots of patience and help and yet I am still waiting......for H to come around.
You just have to do a 180...and don't give up. I think my WAW actually did give up...and that's when I did change. But if we do get a D then it's her loss...cause she could have had everything she wanted.
Quote: Well, in my case, H says theres no problem, even after not touching me for 2 years, so what do you say to that?
Well...you've read the book and you're hear asking for help so I really don't think you've given up. I just think you're frustrated and need some support to keep going. That's what we're here for.
The problem is probably his stress, his inability to say what he wants, and probably some other general communication problems.
You should try and start with trying to get him to tell you what he wants at work, at home, and in the bedroom. Start with a less antogonistic category like work...and move to more touchy points. When he starts to get angry or defensive....STOP....then pick up on that point again when he's cooled down. Patience...patience...patience....
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
I have one question for you: Why would her walking around naked do nothing for you, but her verbally saying the words "I want to ML to you tonight" would have? It seems to me that the words are actual pressure, whereas the nakedness is more of a seduction type thing. Much more subtle.
Can you explain this to me? Cause my H is the same way. Seeing me naked, seeing me in lingerie, none of that does anything for him. But if I were to press the issue and actually ASK him for sex, he'd deliver it in a heartbeat and with happiness. But can you see how that sortof ruins the experience for me? To have to ask for it, or make it so dang obvious what I want, when it's obvious to ME that my other methods didn't work--and that is a confidence killer.
I suppose it is a difference of styles as much as anything else. What do you think?
HP....geez...my WAW thinks I'm the only man in the world that way. One of these days I'm going to have to tell her just to read these damn boards. Now to your questions...
Quote: I have one question for you: Why would her walking around naked do nothing for you, but her verbally saying the words "I want to ML to you tonight" would have? It seems to me that the words are actual pressure, whereas the nakedness is more of a seduction type thing.
Is the lingerie for you or for him? If it's for you and makes you feel sexy, then who cares what he thinks. If it's for him and it doesn't do it for him, then stop doing something that doesn't work.
I'm not going to say seeing her naked ALL THE TIME desensitized me...but it probably did. If you eat lobster everynight you probably will forget how good it tastes. It stops being a seduction thing if you do it all the time.
Now that she is NEVER naked around me...it would totally get me turned on. When she's slept over and she has even a little less clothing on I have enough wood to build a boat.
As for why telling me she wants to ML works...that's because I'm a verbal person when it comes to arousal. The visual only makes it that much better. That's probably why porn has never done a thing for me. I need the other senses. And since I am a verbal feedback person...complaining and nagging to me about the lack of sex is a sure labido killer....but coming on to me in verbal ways gets me going.
Back to the lingerie thing...when I came out of my LD pit one of the first things I started to think about was lingerie. For years my WAW had bought her things that she thought would turn me on....and at the same time she gave me certain evil looks for looking too long at things at Victoria's Secret. So I felt trapped. What I did learn is that lingerie could be something for ME. What did I WANT to see her in? What would turn me on? So I went out and bought a nice little piece of lingerie that I knew would turn ME on to no end...and gave it to her. It's still sitting in the box...she says it's too late.
NOW...I'm sure it's a HUGE confidence killer for you. My WAW has told me that the reason she doens't want to ML now is because I've hurt her self-esteem by all that rejection over the years. I think there are other reasons...but this is probably true to. So just in case your LD H doesn't say it....I'm sorry and it's not your fault.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
It goes to show you that we all work differently. While your wife was playing on visual cues, you are not a visual guy like most. You are more connected to the same things that women want, that is you are connected to the VERBAL world, not the visual world. I'm guessing that your the kind of guy that actually uses BOTH side of his brain, the creative as well as logical side of the brain. Most of us guys are stuck in one side of the brain, where sex, vison, logic are all at, and we really struggle to get to the creative, verbal side of the brain. Is it that your wife was not romantic enough for you? Have you ever tried to explain this to the wife?
You have given me a much better understanding of my H now. Of all the things you listed, I think H is affected by: - Stress - Exhaustion/too busy - Habit - plus he is taking ADs for panic attack
And H tells me the following all the time too.
First off...you are NOT his last priority. I got this crap all the time from my W. He wouldn't be busting his ass and all stressed out because he liked it...he's doing it for you and his family. Now he might be over doing it and needs to manage stress better...but he's probably afraid of failing to provide for his family. So you are his top priority..and he probably doesn't want you to have to worry about all the things he worries about.
How could I still possibly think that I was so low down in priority. Silly me.
I shall try to remember these things you've said as well:
The problem is probably his stress, his inability to say what he wants, and probably some other general communication problems.
Patience...patience...patience....
My H is a non-verbal person and more visual so I will try to work on that. I've also learned to speak his LL very well these days that he constantly tells me how much he looks forward to coming home everyday and how he enjoys his weekends with me and D2 and how much easier I've made life for him.
