annette, I had an extreme amount of resentment for my spouse. It got to the point where i coudn't be around her without being angry. I could go to work and have a real good day but by the time i got into the house i was having a lousy day and felt angry.
All that is gone right now. It all disappeared after we had a big talk and i said i was not going to try and save this marriage and that i was prepared to move on. Somehow that got out everything i had to say and my anger and resentment washed away.
We have been living as roomates in separate bedrooms, i have not felt the need over the past week to get away to my apartment and being at the house is more convenient for me.
Interestingly enough, my incredible need for sex and love that i had been feeling has slacked off a bit, giving me time to see how things should go instead of having me running around chasing tail.
Last night I had another recurrent dream. The dreams are different but the theme is always the same. H has desire but not for me, its always for some old girlfriend or some other person. So despite what I say about trying to hear his love language and feeling loved, obviously I am not hearing it. I feel unloved and very undesirable.
So I plucked up courage to have another go at communicating to H about how I felt. Sent him an email and told him how desperately I needed some physical loving from him in order to feel loved, secure and connected to him and guess what was his reply?
His reply was You said you will not complain about old problems then you do. I am sure you are going to keep complaining until we end up arguing bitterly. "Old" problem? This is where "acting as if" gets you. H thought that I had accepted things as they were. How could I accept the fact that he did not touch me with passion at all througout this 8 1/2 months pregnancy, no kisses beyond a friendly peck and think that it is ok with me? It is not ok with me. If he feels uncomfortable about it then tell me. I can accept that! He just keeps avoiding the subject. How am I supposed to feel? I feel lousy. Enough venting!
He sounds pretty insensitive. I wonder what's going on in his head. I hate it when the LD responds that way. They don't realize how much courage it takes for us to ask for something that we feel we deserve, that should just come naturally. It takes courage to bring it up the first time. The first time, they say something that makes us feel better, like, OH, I didn't realize you felt that way...I've been preoccupied, I'll work on it. Then, you bring it up the second time, which takes even more courage, because you're not only asking for the same thing again, you're having to confront them on their inaction (were they lying to us when they said they were going to "work on it" or is there some other explanation?) So you bring it up again, and maybe this time they get a bit defensive. They give some reason that makes some kind of sense, and again say they'll work on it.
So then you have to bring it up again, because nothing has happened, the emotional distance between the two of you is growing, and you are wondering, "am I hideous? do I treat her poorly? am I not doing something I should be doing? does she not love me anymore? does she love someone else?" This time, it takes courage and blind faith and your voice is shaky because you have been so nervous about bringing it up and your feeling brittle because the fear of bringing it up has kept you from sleeping well the past few nights, and you've written and re-written a rough script and read it about a hundred times, because when you start talking about this subject without some sort of lifeline, you feel like a deer in the headlights and you can't explain why you miss their touch without sounding like some sort of sex maniac. You bring it up and they immediately go on the defensive, and then a new tactic, an offensive move by them, which makes you feel like all you do is nag about this problem, that everything else in the relationship is peachy-keen and why must I always want something more, why is always about ME? And the kicker, "The more you pressure me, the more I will resist."
So you decide to take their advice and lay low for a couple weeks. Then a couple of months. You get depressed because you are in a relationship which is like a wonderful banquet of all of your favorite cookies, but there's no milk to wash it down with. You should be satisfied, but there's something MAJOR missing from your ability to enjoy it all. The cookies lose their appeal, because, how can you possibly enjoy them without milk?
You've done what you consider to be a "180." You've decided to not bring it up. To stop giving that extra hug as you leave. To stop kissing good night right before bed (because, you noticed, it was always YOU making the effort to lean over and kiss her, and she never even met you halfway).
And the next thing you realize is that half of a year has gone by with only the most basic, most platonic contact between the two of you. The LD seems happy, content, able to function just fine. You, on the other hand, are falling apart. Your work suffers. Your temper is short. You get sad when you watch a tv show and the couple runs upstairs in the middle of the day to have sex. You start to notice people of the opposite sex you never noticed before and you start thinking how nice it would be to . . . .
So you bring it up again. Courage? Yes, but so much more now. Desparation. Defeat. Resentment. Emasculation. Self-hatred.
You feel like a beggar. At this point, though, you're almost numb to the expected response. Even though you have felt like you haven't touched, hugged, kissed, for months, they remind you that you are wrong. They accuse you of not giving them credit for that unsolicited hug two weeks ago after dinner, or that kiss on the couch when you were watching some ridiculous reality tv show together...last week.
And that's when you have to decide if you're going to stay in this, to you, LOVELESS MARRIAGE, or get out. Loveless? But they can point to countless things they do for you, this major sacrifice, this change of plans, the mere fact that they made a decision X years ago to get married to you and they are still married to you---doesn't THAT prove that they love you? Well, no, not in the way that I define love. (but that doesn't really count).
You decide to stick it out, because you have a daughter who needs to have two parents together, and you love her with all of your heart, and want to do the RIGHT thing.
And hey, maybe someday she'll come around to your way of thinking. Stranger things have happened.
More journaling to myself. I think I've given up. I'm too tired to try anymore. Have to resign myself to a marriage without passion. I can't change anything. I can't do it alone, not when H things there is nothing wrong and refuses to talk about it. Nothing wrong? The last time I was pregnant, he didn't touch me the whole time as well and for a year afterwards too till I brought it up and then he gave me one session of 'mercy sex'. Then we decided to have a second child and we didn't have to try very hard before I was pregnant again and we're back to the hands off from H again till I don't know when. So in the past 3 years I have too many fingers to count the number of times we've ML. Corri, if you're reading this, your 65 times is like a record or something. Give yourself a pat on the back. I really don't know what else to do. I just feel like giving up. I don't plan to leave my M. I love my H too much and my dd and the new life within me. So I just have to give up having a sex life. Surely thats not so hard to do. There are other things in life. Besides I am not even that HD. I would be happy with once a fortnight or even once a month but unfortunately my H has ND so its none at all and I can't even give H these numbers since he won't talk about it. If he would he might not think it so bad after all.
I feel so so tired. I just wish he would at least open up and talk to me about it so I would understand what is happening. Not talking about it makes me doubt myself endlessly and I feel really sad that he doesn't even want to try knowing that I am unhappy about this. I want my H to desire me, yes but more so I want him to have a desire to try to tell me what is wrong and whether there is anything we can do about it together as a couple to improve on the sitch. He only wants me to shut up and be happy with the way things are. Says I complain too much. Says he can't believe what I say anymore. According to him, one moment I promised not to bring it up anymore and the next I am arguing or complaining about it again.
Might quit this board too. Its too depressing. Its depressing when you hear no one coming close to a satisfactory solution and when you hear of some success, its depressing too becos I am not making any progress myself. My, aren't we feeling negative today.
I've told H before that part of me is dying a slow death and I think he prefers it dead. I almost wish that after delivery my libido will go away just like some of the wives that some of you mentioned about. Then we'd be the perfect couple with matching ND.
I am Asian (yes the problem is universal) and that makes it worse because we're just more closed up in discussing these issues. H is extremely non verbal too. Never ever heard him say ILU in all the 11 years we've been together. The only time was during our wedding and the part was accidentally censored off by some kid who hit the video recorder. Just my luck. The only other time was when I asked him after he had a PA with a co worker. So how do you get someone so non verbal to open up. Its next to impossible.
My LL is physical touch and words of affirmation and I get neither from him. He won't even read the LL book so I can't even begin to explain to him what those things mean to me. He has been affectionate to me after I kept telling and reminding him that I love him being affectionate so that fills my love tank a little but right now I feel so angry with him at rejecting once again my attempt to communicate to him about the SSM that I don't even feel like giving him my loving touches anymore but guess who will be the one who will suffer from this? Me of course as he won't even notice but I would be the one who would miss touching him after a while so it would be like punishing myself. Shan't do that.
Its really funny that when it comes to other people's threads we are so optimistic and positive and can give well meaning advice but when it comes to our own sitch we fall apart.
Well, its late Friday night for me now and my weekends started. Probably won't be checking back till after the weekend. So happy weekend all and I'll try to be as happy as I can be myself.
Oh hairdog or is it hairdong (I thought that was funny),
I just saw your reply. Its late here now and I have to get offline now but thanks. All I can say to what you have posted is how 100 percent right you are. You have put into words exactly how I feel. Catch up with you guys later. Happy weekend.
{{{{{{{{{{luvhubby}}}}}}}}}} My heart goes out to you luvhubby. There seem to be so many HD men and so few HD women I think that you are so unlucky not to have married an HD man. I wonder whether it is not so much the HD/LD thing as the love language. I bet that most HD people have "Physical touch" and "Words of affirmation" as their LL. SD
Does anyone get the impression that LD men might need a something a little more "dramatic" to wake them up? Between annette and luvhubby, I keep thinking that their husband's worlds need to be turned upside down. For some strange reason, their Hs are absolutely confident that their spouses would never leave, therefore they make no effort to change and seem blind to the damage they are inflicting on their spouses. IMHO, they are selfish pricks who don't know what it means to be a partner.
So, stop asking for affection and ask him if he's a committed partner who recognizes that the relationship needs to improve. Buy him a book in the business section on "Great Teams" and have him read that rather than a pastel colored self-help book. The requirements of a great team applies to marriages as well. I would let it be known that the relationship is going to diminish if he doesn't get on board. This means communication. If he doesn't want to work on it, then start removing some of the love languages you give him...ignore him, hire a maid instead of washing things yourself, take a trip with your friends and let him feel what being single is like. This sounds contrary to what the books say but I think guys need to feel pain before they change anything.
I was getting ready to be a WWH. and it's the most terrifying thing in the world...to throw away a peaceful, prosperous lifestyle and possibly alienation from your kids simply because you aren't getting the type of love you want. But these feelings (imho) don't go away or diminish...I tried to make my libido go away over the past 2 years. I thought it was working until it came back with a vengeance in the past 3 months and the years of rejection have caught up with me. Instead of me "taking the hit" and saying "oh, it's my problem". My attitude changed to say "that selfish b!tch, she doesn't listen to my concerns nor address my physicall needs...she's completely using me and if I can't have an intimate relationship with her, then I will find it somewhere else." This was 2 months ago and I nearly had an affair (a really anonymous and interesting one-night-stand thing) but instead of acting upon it, I came home energized to give the marriage an overhaul and see what happens. Fortunately, she committed and has been slowly improving the communication. She too doesn't allow me to bring up old issues so I established way of talking to the "great future where we are snuggling our wrinkled selves next to one-another when we are 70". I established a principal that achieving the vision will require lots of physical affection and negotiated the others. There's an upbeat way to do this. By creating an "inzone", you will see what kind of player & teammate he is. As this becomes more apparent, you might decide that he's ok, or you might decide that he's not worth all the energy you are putting in to carry him (along with the ball). Think about it...if you did carry a teammate to the endzone, would they be dancing with you? Or sleeping on the field?
Sorry for the football metaphor, but it might help you tap into his man mind.
Echoing Dave36 I would add that the rejected HD spouse is always on the "lookout". You just can't help it. Once in a while you happen to meet someone who takes a fancy to you and if they speak your love language the results are electrifying! I met my OW two years ago and she hit right on to my "words of affirmation" LL. She said all the things I had been longing for my W to say and she said them with such meaning that I came within an inch of leaving my family after knowing her for only 3 months. Not a day goes by when I don't think of those things she said to me. I am constantly tempted to contact her again to get another "fix". I realise that I am actually an incredibly easy guy to please if only my LDW would make the effort to try. SD
Thanks so much for your replies and thoughts. I follow your threads too and I think whether you're the W or H who is the HD one in the M, the feelings of fear, hurt, rejection, resentment are all the same. Having said that, I would go one step further to say that being a HDW is somewhat harder then being the HDH as it is supposed to be against the norm. After all men are the one who's supposed to want sex all the time and women are the one who prefers emotional/intellectual or other forms of attachment to sex and childcare is an exhausting task, Hs usually get pushed back among list of priorities.
We see some LD wives here who are trying to work at their sitchs but do you see any LDHs? No! I think that being LD for a man is even harder to handle than being a LD wife. Wouldn't you guys feel less of a man if you lost your libido for some reason (lets say medical reasons which you can't help, its not really your fault) and you see your Ws need for intimacy as a complaint that you're not satisfying her sexually? How would that make you feel? You'd probably go into a shut off and shut up mode like my H. I think he is in total denial because it is too painful for him to even discuss it.
Now for more therapeutic journaling to myself. I think I know H well enough to guess what he is thinking right now. H is thinking.
- I have panic attack and though I hate it I have to take SSRIs to control it. - Its affecting my work. I can't afford to lose my job, who will look after my family if I do. My wife does not contribute financially although I hope that she would so that we will have a backup to look after our babies in case anything happens to me. - My Ws complaining about lack of sex? Hey! If I lose my job because of the stress she is putting me through, lets see if she will still have time to complain about this as we struggle to survive. Lets get our priorities right shall we? I know things are not perfect but why can't she just enjoy what we have and be happy with that. - (Hs LL is acts of service). I do all this stuff for her and take care of her so well and yet she complains that she does not feel loved? What the crap is she talking about? Almost makes me feel like not doing anything for her anymore. Whats the point? Its not being appreciated. - My wife's nagging and complaining kills my desire even further. Can't she see that and just stop it?
On the other hand H could be thinking: - My wife's put on quite a lot of weight after childbirth and I am no longer attracted to her. - Her breastfeeding puts me off. - I don't want to hurt her feelings so I shan't say anything. - Just pretend everything is fine and I'll take care of myself in that dept until she gets back to shape.
Oh I just hate these guessing games. If only he 'd tell me exactly what is going on in his mind. I'm going crazy here.
Anyway, our weekend was alright as we avoided talking about the subject and we went shopping together for baby stuff (though the temperature was several degrees colder at home.) We did get on each others nerves a bit and declared a cold war probably due to the undercurrent undiscussed issues but H was sweet in the evening. Its nice to be pregnant and H being so protective in helping me across the road etc. I get lots of my physical touch needs met so better enjoy this while I can.
Oh and I must defend my H here as I've made him sound so insensitive and such a jerk because I had been venting. He certainly is not and thats why I love him. He is usually so sensitive towards my feelings that he can tell just by looking at my face the instant I am upset about something. He would ask me whats wrong hon? and then proceed to make me laugh or make me feel better. He just appears insensitive in this issue only as he is in total denial so he does not see the hurt he is causing me. He is usually upbeat, fun to be around, very thoughtful and a real optimistic person who laughs a lot and is thankful for every little thing in life. Having panic anxiety and having to take medication to control it is really hard on him but he rarely complains about anything so I guess he wants me to be a bit more like him and complain/nag less. Oh I could go on and on but I feel better already so I had better stop now. This is getting too long but thanks all for listening.
We did get on each others nerves a bit and declared a cold war probably due to the undercurrent undiscussed issues but H was sweet in the evening. Its nice to be pregnant and H being so protective in helping me across the road etc. I get lots of my physical touch needs met so better enjoy this while I can. 