Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis To forgive

I've also heard the saying...

Non-forgiveness is like you drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop dead. It eats away at you. You forgive with no expectations. Period. There is no scorecard.

I guess for me, being an engineer, is how to define forgiveness.I work in a world of cause and effect, black and white, no room for it kinda works.

I have moved past the anger stage. I no longer let what she does interfere with raising my daughters unless it directly does. I have accepted that what she does is what she feels she needs to do no matter how destructive it is. I have accepted that I can only control one person and that is myself. I try as much as I can to not let her actions control my day to day life. Is that forgiveness?

WHAT IS FORGIVENESS?

Excellent analogy, Mr. Bond. 25 makes some great points as well. The holding on to past hurts only hurts you.

Some people think there is an *if* associated with forgiveness. I think some people interchange forgiveness with forgetting. Nope. You don't forget. I also think some people try to tie trust into forgiveness in some shape form or fashion. You know that some people think "Until they ask for forgiveness, I can never trust them". Not the same. Two separate issues. I think it comes down to some people *expect* someone to acknowledge their wrongs before forgiving. Forgiveness is NOT for the other person. It is for YOU!!

Matt, why are you allowing your wife to hurt you further? You know she is unstable and not rational. You are *expecting* her to be different? Why now? She thinks she's on the path to *happiness* so why does *she* need forgiveness? *She* doesn't. Why? Because she doesn't think she's done anything to necessitate forgiveness.

LT, I am extremely logical. Crazy logical. My xh said at BD that he "hated that I was so rational and logical." I do think everyone has their own version of forgiveness. However, if your version is that you cannot let go of anger, hurt, and grudges until someone *asks* for forgiveness, then prepare to hold on to bitterness, resentment, hurt, etc. Isn't that similar to a person on crisis? They blame you for everything and it's all your fault. Look at how *unhappy* and angry they are. If you keep the scorecard doesn't it do the same thing to you? Allows you to blame others for your hurt, resentment and anger? I am not interested in expediting aging, wrinkles, additional stress, etc. I'm sure we have all met people who are incredibly bitter. Think about people who say "I'll never forgive!" That is their choice to hold on to anger-and that IS what that is. . My life is crazy enough juggling my kids, career, and dog:-). I do understand that it's difficult-it IS a process.

Perhaps I've realized that my xh has a diagnosed, improperly treated mental illness and is going thru a MLC. I am NOT without blame which is well documented on my lengthy threads. I don't like everything he does although he no longer hurts me. Why on earth would I expect him to ask for forgiveness or even apologize? His hurt and pain is his own. I cannot imagine being him. He has held on to hurt his entire life. It's unfortunate and sad. I do hope he finds peace. However, I have a life to live, children to raise and I want them to see that forgiveness allows you peace and the opportunity to really live.

Sorry for the novel. This is strictly my take on forgiveness. :-)

Hi GB,

You make good points. I don't expect her to ask for forgiveness or even apologize. I am not even sure I have a definition of forgiveness at this point. I know she is on her own path and she owns what she does. I know that I cannot control anyone other than myself. I hope, like you, that my spouse eventually finds the peace they are looking for. I have accepted this, but have I forgiven it? Forgiveness I think will eventually come when she stops trying to hurt me either directly or through our children. I am not angry, more sad that she feels the need to do this still after almost 2 years.

So my reason for starting this thread was to see others views on what is forgiveness. I see the word and concept thrown around a lot and for me it gets confusing.

Here is a true story that may shed some light on this topic, (a great topic).

I grew up with a neighbor who was a retired Army Colonel. For several years he had been a POW in Vietnam.

He and his wife had 5 kids. Years before they moved into our neighborhood, the Colonel had had an affair with an OW at his work.

Wait...How did I, a young 17 y/o neighbor, know that the Colonel had had an A?

Oh, I knew b/c everyone knew, b/c "Mrs Colonel" made sure we all knew, so we would not think he was such a great guy.

There were times I wanted to ask the Colonel about his POW experiences. But Mrs. C- would steer the topic away. I assumed for years, that she was protecting him from a bad war memory.

Then l learned that she simply didn't like him getting that type of attention. At the time we knew the family, the Colonel was kind, funny, handsome, strong, and really just a great guy. Yes, we DID admire him.

In contrast, Mrs. Colonel was a bitter woman, who made a snide remark at her h's expense, at every turn. From how he over cooked the grilled meat, to undermining the value of a reference letter he wrote for my h. She could NOT give that man a kind word to save her soul.

She never praised him in front of her kids, or us, and she would undermine any compliment others gave him. She seemed to live to make him pay. I'm not exaggerating.

She was NOT kind to him at all. Seemed like she never let him forget what SHE had endured & what HE had done TO her.

Today, 3 decades later, only 1 of their 5 kids is married, their only son. It's his 2nd or 3rd marriage. The others are all single, with 2 never marrying, and the other 2 getting married, repeatedly.

The choice that Mrs C- made was the worst of all choices.

She could have divorced him and recovered. She could have gone to counseling and therapy, to learn how to forgive him.

Instead, she made the worst but most tempting choice; she stayed married AND stayed miserable.

She never let Colonel forget his sins.

She held it over his head like the sword of Damacles.

She threw it in his face (or threatened to) every time they fought.

She did NOT Forgive him and she did not even try to. Not in a serious humbling way.

It's ironic, but from where we sat, from what we could see, HE was the victim and she was the wrongdoer....she was not a woman we sympathized with.

She should have let him go when she found out about the A; or as soon as she realized she could not forgive him; OR, she could have learned how to forgive.


She could have left her children a beautiful legacy. She COULD have taught and passed on to them, the concepts and practices of true forgiveness, real redemption, deep love and full commitment.

Instead, she passed onto them a deep suspicion, distrust, cynicism, bitterness and big time grudge holding. She did not think he "deserved" forgiveness -- so she overlooked how many others were affected by her choice not to forgive.


Food for thought.

Thanks 25yearsmlc for your "food for thought". I needed to hear that.

Great story 25. Reminds me of my wife and her 3 sisters. For the 20 plus years I have known them not one of them have ever had a kind word about their father. They all have held a grudge against him for the things he did in their youth. I think they will all be bitter about it till the day they die.

Is letting go of things a part of forgiving? Can anyone list the steps of forging if such a thing exists? What are the signs of forgiving?

I can't describe it all. I'll say up front that it was something I had to learn., and it was hardest at the beginning.

But a few signs of forgiving are:

1) not bringing it up again, especially not around others. So, no throwing it in their faces every time you fight,

2) No holding it over their heads.

3) being in the moment, the present, and going "From this day forward", like the marriage vows tell us to do.

That also means letting go of the past, b/c hey, it passed....

Forgiveness of my H has released me from a lot of pain, it also helped me to work on forgiving others.

I really believe it was affecting me more then it was affecting them. I'm a much happier person now, working on being better every day.

Forgive does not mean forget, and I had to dig deep to forgive, but it was sooo worth it. I wanted H to come to me and beg for my forgiviness, may not ever happen.

I even forgave myself for things I did wrong in my M, and things I did wrong to others in the past.

I feel so much better.

Truly forgive if you can find it in your heart to do so.

Amen...

Like it says in my signature block (from Marianne Williamson),

"Forgiveness is Our way out of hell."


It helped ME. For a long time I never even told h, so I can only say how it affected me, not him.

In a way, he wasn't really relevant to the choice I made b/c like I said, it was for MY benefit more than anything else.

It also happened to help my kids, a lot.