Karen -- You asked on my thread how I broke the cycle of downward spiraling. Well...it was hard work and lots and lots of support from my BB friends...here, though, is the post that kicked my butt out of complacency ...
Quote: Ok, you asked for my advice so here goes:
Sage, you are a wonderful person. You have give so much great advice to so many people, including myself - and I am forever in your debt for it because I feel that those words led me to ultimately getting my H back. So I just wanted to make it clear here that I respect you completely... but I am here as a fellow DB'er and not to pat you on the back and give you hugs this time... and I apologize in advance if this comes across as harsh.
When Umbrella pulled out the 2x4 at the beginning of this thread, I think he was right on the mark.
I began reading your threads when I came here in December and now it's almost July. If I look at your the overall content of your threads, I see the same thing over and over and over for the past 7 months! You have been in almost the exact same sitch, worrying about the same exact things, going up and down on this rollercoaster of screwing up and then apologizing! I hate to have to do this but this is a huge 2x4 whack. When are you going to get off of this track? Don't you think it's about time?
I continue to see the same thoughts over and over from you, you go through the exact same things over and over - it's like an inevitable cycle that continues to repeat itself.
Believe it or not, I actually do have some constructive things that I'm going to tack on here:
"I'm scared that the reason h. doesn't tell me things is because he still doesn't really know if he wants to be with me."
Your H struggle with expressing his feelings - even in your recent posts I can see this pretty clearly. Why do you think that your H doesn't want to tell you things? I bet you can answer that pretty quickly. What can you do to help your H express his feelings? What can you do to provide a comfortable environment for your H to share things in? What can you do to be a person your H feels comfortable sharing things with?
When you bring up OW, do you understand why your H may not be receptive to the conversation or answering your questions? "After the Affair" and DR addressed this issue specifically. (Ceb also explained this concept to me.) Bringing up the past brings up all the feelings from the past as well. It transports people back to that time and was that a good time for either of you? No! Why would anyone want to voluntarily feel that way again!
"It's been an issue before for h. that I "ruin" things -- good times with a blowup."
Why does your H feel this way? Are you guilty of this? This related to the above issue of bringing up things in the past as well.
If you want to fix this M, you MUST take control of things. You need to control yourself, your actions, your reactions, your thoughts, your words! Stop sign visualization - anything to stop the negative thoughts. You know these concepts!
It's not completely out of line to expect your H to fix some things but the burden of this is going to fall on your shoulders and you must take responsibility for fixing the M!
"I'm scared that he's still looking for an out -- that I'm ok "for now" but that he'll never feel as though he can be honest with me."
"I want to feel like part of a team."
Now, I'm not trying to say that some of your feelings aren't valid but you really need to figure out which are valid and which are simply you being overly insecure. What needs do you have that aren't being met that may lead you to feel this way? What specific things can your H do to help your feelings?
Your H has been by your side for how long now? He has been riding this rollercoaster right along with you. He has told you that he has no contact with OW. Put yourself in your H's shoes for a while - look at his feelings and thoughts. How do you see yourself through his eyes? How does that make you feel?
You also said that you were going to use that big list you wrote to formulate some goals but I don't see any new goals.... did you get around to that yet?
Whew, ok, I'm done... it's really hard for me to say things like this because I'm generally a pretty nice person but I really think you need to hear it Sage. I think you need to take this very seriously.
-------------------- -Calystra
Perhaps you'll find something in there for you...
I'm also semi in the process of reviewing my old threads...I think there's some stuff on them that may apply...I'll post if I find something of note (this may take weeks to finish!)
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Thank you Sage! (And Cal is like what 25 or 26 years old?? Very wise for her age!)
I have also thought about going back through my threads (thank goodness they are not nearly as long as yours!) and taking down some notes. ie things to do, goals, what works, etc.
I feel the same way-that I continue to have the same fears and anxieties which cause me to act out. (foolishly, no less)
This weekend was good. I went out w/some friends on Sat.-I was ensuring that I got home after h (3:10am!!), however, he didn't even go out! He went to the audition and came home and said that he didn't feel like going out. He's doing a 180 on ME! ha ha...
Sun. morn, we ML like usual (always on sundays!), and played around. Sometimes I tell him to push me out of bed when I can't get up, so he was, and I was resisting, then I was on the floor and just curled up with a blanket that was next to the bed. We laffed...I cooked bfast, then his friends came over, I went to my mom's to see my nephews, and then went to church. Called h on way home and we went out to eat. (HIS initiation and he suggested two whole restaurants!!) We had good convo. and he told me about his audition and asked for my opinion!
We also talked about "the Passion of the Christ." He wants to see it for the "historical" value and is irked that Christians are implying that they want to save some people by encouraging them to see the movie. He is only putting stock in it for it's Hollywood appeal and not really for the religious aspect. ??? I wish he was a believer...but I know making a stink of it will NOT accomplish anything. So, I did share my opinion that it is depicting the suffering and sacrifice that Jesus and God made for us.
Hi, It's me again! I am doing pretty well if I don't say so myself! Monday night had dinner w/mom & h. Had a nice time. I was exhausted and feel asleep quickly. Yesterday h sent me an email at work: hey baby !! how's your day going ?? I'm lazy again !! gonna get going soon though. think i'm gonna go out tonight, if you have no objections. ttyl me so I said something about work being trying and that it is fine if he goes out! signed loveeoo. He called me then a little after 5 as I was leaving work, we chit chatted, I got home, got ready for vball. He got ready to go out. A lot of times I like to vanish before I see him get spiffy to go out w/friend, but this time I didn't. He finished getting ready, we both left at the same time. I bit and my tongue (to bi!ch) and said, c ya' later handsome and he said bye baby! nice! I went out after vball with a few friends.
H came home shortly after 1. (hmm...this is getting earlier...)then he read, came to bed, I asked him to snuggle which he willingly did. I am going to the rock-climbing gym tonight w/some people from the bike club. Asked h if he is coming, (he quit climbing due to carpal tunnel/nerve damage in arms/and hurting his knee at the climbing gym )but he said he didn't know what for. I said he could belay me while the others take the class. I don't expect him to go which is OK with me. 'cuz I'm doin' my own thang!
Haven't made plans for the weekend.
We may be getting our fireplace fixed this week! I called another guy for an estimate, he was less than half of another guy we talked to and h said, "did you tell him to DO it??" I said, I would confer w/h first, and decided to go ahead just have to see when guy is available.
Yay!
Continual goals: to keep my mouth in check, bite my tongue, quit bi!ching, accept h for who he is, and appreciate him. And to feel good about myself, do things that help me feel more independent. Karen
I'm ready to blow and afraid that I may do something rash.
H & I spent Tues. & Wed. separately, and then last night I cooked din., we ate, talked, watched some tv, went to bed at 10. I thought it would be nice to ML since we haven't since Sunday. Sorry, but i want it during the week too.
So we're snuggling, and I start to nuzzle a little. I wonder if I can approach him. I ask if he is too tired to fool around. He says, "not necessarily." So I ask what that means. As in, "what do you want." I think I asked (again) are you TOO tired? He said, no that he wasn't THAT tired. So, I'm hoping/wanting him to express some interest in me. He asks me what i want. DUH, isn't it f'in obvious? Why would I ask if that's NOT what I want. I ask what he wants or something to that effect, he shrugs, I start to cry. He says, "what do you want???" I said, "a STRAIGHT answer!"
He says, "I didn't say 'NO' did I?" I say, "no, but you didn't say you wanted it either." I tell him it would be nice to hear that he wants it/wants to be with me. Is this b/c of your emotional (intestinal) blockage with our r? He says maybe. I say it seems like he is being ambivalent, to give me some indication-say something, put my hand on his p. or something! Hello!
So, he does his usual withdrawal, get quiet, non-communicative, and rolls over. I ask what he is thinking. He won't say. He says I always assume the worst and that this is MY problem and that I need to deal with it. It has nothing to do with him. I cry, he says he's not "playing into this." I say I don't think it is unreasonable for a woman to want to know that her h wants her. I say that I know we've had this convo. a bajillion times and try to drop it. I ask to snuggle again or if he wants me to leave him alone. No answer, he gets closer to the middle of the bed w/his back to me. He goes to sleep. I lay there for a little while, go to my room to cry and read/write.
I wrote him a letter. Not necessarily to give to him. It would need to be editted/condensed.
*I feel so TIRED of taking the blame for EVERYTHING that goes wrong in our r. Earlier he said that he thought we were going hiking. I said, "you never told me that you wanted to go!" I CANNOT read his f'in mind!!! I am tired of being the social planner, work out motivator, initiator, r worker, etc. I am NOT a physical trainer (nor do I play one on TV.) If I stopped, what would happen? Ok, he did initiate convo. about this weekend and what to do. Talked about renting a movie tonight, seeing a band tomorrow night, bike riding Sunday. This is good.
I have thought about backing off sex and not initiating, but I WANT it. I want our R to be different! You know, he NEVER apologizes for being grumpy, snappish, or non-communicative/indecisive. I am tired of hearing "once you change for an extended period of time, I'll do x or y."
I have heard mixed reviews from people (both here and outside-ha ha). Some think that yes, he is responsible for the r too! And that it takes two to tango, and that my emo's are normal & part of being a woman. (I know I lack control of them, however.) And, I have heard that I am entirely too controlling and selfish. I admit to being contolling and selfish, and really feel that that has changed a lot.
I feel like I have not changed "enough" for him or that I am not worthy of his affections. I do NOT lash out at him anymore and I don't think I am nearly as accusatory as I was. However, I get no credit for that. He sees the tears and it's all over for him.
His mom has told me that he was abusive verbally to his longtime gf from the past and that they told her to leave THEIR son! He told K that it was all her too! And he thinks our r is MORE work than most. Obviously, there's didn't last. They were engaged twice and lived together for half a year...??? wtf??
Before we married, he said that some women had told him he was not very emotional/expressive and he said that he wanted to work on that. I also brought up the importance of romance and KLA, and he agreed. However, I do not think that he has been working on these things. And he blames me for his closed-offedness.
I am getting a life, and I can have one w/o him, but I DO want him in it. ?? karen
Well, I've been shopping around for an SBT that is preferably in my network. I ended up talking to one on the phone for ~15 min. He said to STOP pursuing H even if it KILLS me. He said that h is operating on defending himself and feels threatened that he will lose his individuality. He said that I am operating out of fear. (We know this.)
So, if I quit pursuing...How does this relate to deciding what to do on a given evening. We typically tell each other a few days ahead of time if we are going out w/our friends or whatever. HE did initiate the planning for this weekend, so I need to go with it and be happy about it. So, that shouldn't be an issue. Lest he decides that he doesn't want to go anywhere with me.
I play vball Tuesdays for the next month or so. The leader of the bike club is already asking me about climbing next week, so I will prob. do that one day. *Did I mention that one of my old bf's is in the bike club and wants to climb too? I told h about it and he didn't say much. H has met him before and if we bike with this club will again. I also exchanged email addresses with a couple girls that want to climb too. One of them sounds like she is already addicted! yay!
Goal: to not have a red nose & puffy eyes when I go home. Forget about last night and the last 4 years (not really) and start over...again...Back to the DB drawing board. How do I maintain my dignity in all of this? thanks! karen
If we knew that, I guess would not be where we are. Worrying what the WAS is doing? Because I have NO clue. I do not understand how a person can walk away from a M and a family?
Your dignity is how you feel inside about yourself I think, I know people tend to look at that on the outside and I place WAY too much importance I think on other people's opinions. But as long as you know you are doing what is best for Karen and what makes Karen happy that is what is important here.
Have a great weekend!!!
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Hi Pam! I have an appt. w/Joann tomorrow. We got our income tax money so I decided to splurge a little. Hopefully it will be well worth it. I imagine that it will be. Still looking for SBT-had an appt. w/one but she had to cancel.
Please pray that I can get through this weekend without starting anything!
We laffed...I cooked bfast, then his friends came over, I went to my mom's to see my nephews, and then went to church. Called h on way home and we went out to eat. (HIS initiation and he suggested two whole restaurants!!) 
)but he said he didn't know what for. I said he could belay me while the others take the class. I don't expect him to go which is OK with me. 'cuz I'm doin' my own thang! 
I always like to see CHL spiffed up!!! Looks sexy. 
