Quote: Ok, enough whining? I know Sage is right. I know that all of you are right. I even paid $130 that I barely have to have Joann tell me what is right. So why do I keep doing what i KNOW is wrong???
Maybe you are doing what you know is wrong because it FEELS so right at the time?
Quote: When I say I have told him what would help-you said he prob. doesn't "know" what to do, when I have given him several examples!
I know you have! So have I! But...I'll tell you what. I consider myself a fairly smart person, but if someone approached me with a calculus problem and said here, learn this. If I tried, but couldn't figure it out and then they handed me some examples...well, I can almost guarantee ya that I'd still be sitting there going WHAT?!?! over the calculus problem. To some people, emotions are calculus problems. They just don't get it.
HOWEVER, it does not mean that they can't learn! Yet, only motivated people learn. So...we're going to have to motivate this man. Hint, he is not very motivated by demanding, yelling, screaming and crying...
The horse is dead, the stick is too...guess its time for something new! How's that for a poem? Poem gone plan could go something like this...
Instead of "you rotten disappointing cretin, why can't you just do something for me for once?" you say..."thanks for a great evening, I had a lot of fun. I'm not tired, so I think I'll [insert what you can and will do]. If you would like to join me, you're more than welcome..." and then do it and walk away. Try it...peak his interest...
No law in the land says you have to lie there and try to read and toss and turn and make the man feel guilty as sin because he wanted to go to bed. I understand disappointment quite well...really I do...but if the horse is dead, its dead!
NO ONE is saying that you need to be begging for forgiveness! Lordy, where did you get that? No, this is hardly all your fault...nor is it all his. But you are the one with the tools; do you see where this is going?
Now, here is some food for thought. This H USED to be active and vivacious and full of life. Now, he sits around on his duff with a beer in one hand and a channel changer in the other. Hmmm...lazy bastard? OR depressed man? Someone had to really whap me upside my head with that 2x4 before, and then I saw it in a whole different light.
Karen, welcome to the rut. I am thinking that you need some new goals to boost you out of it. What do you think?
Okay, rip rip rip...
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
V. good! V. good! I need to set immediate goals: 1. act as if last night (the disappointment/expressing feelings) didn't happen 2. be Bob and have a good time riding. 3. get rid of migraine 4. not expect sex ?? aaagh!!
My H has admitted that he does get S.A.D., but I don't think it is just seasonal but I call it W.A.D.-if it rains all day, if it is grey outside, if it is too hot, if it is too cold, if a tornado goes through town-he's depressed. I can't change the weather and the grey Ohio climate!!
Oh, I feel like I need to "prove myself" to h to be good enough for him. As it stands, he doesn't know if he's in or out. But, obviously, he is still m to me, so I think he is in most of the time.
Yes, it does FEEL right at the time even though I know it is not.
To think about why I continue doing what I know is wrong and not working...maybe I do want to sabotage our r. I think it is me that is not committed to this r completely. I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake, but then I think he is such a great guy...and I would be so sad w/o him. Guess I can't make up my mind. (to be completely honest) I don't want anyone else, but sometimes wonder if the grass is greener. I know the intro to DR says that it isnt' and that d is not worth it, and is extremely painful...
A 2x4??? For what??? For expressing your feelings? No way lady…not from me!
Okay, it looks like we have some solvable problems here!
Have you ever heard of a SAD clock? Me neither…but Betsey has! She was looking at getting one for her H. Might be worth the 100 bucks…check it out!
Hmmm….proving yourself to H….let’s see…what can I say to that….oh, I know!! NO!
Karen, if you’re trying to prove yourself to your H you’re jumping through hoops. And jumping through hoops only makes you look silly and desperate for attention. Pam and I made the promise to put our hoops in the closet – please do the same!!
If you make the changes inside of yourself they’ll show through to the outside. You will have opportunities to SHOW your H that you have changed, but you cannot create those opportunities. If you live your life in the new way he will see it. Once you have his curiosity piqued, you’re in. By trying to prove something, you’ll become a prime candidate for resentment all over again. Prove to yourself that you are worthy…the rest will happen.
Time for a pro and con list!! Pros on the marriage and cons on the marriage. If you are trying to sabotage this union, the first step will be to figure out why. If the why’s are fixable, you can do that. There is a lot of hope in your situation Karen, I promise you that! I know that it is frustrating not to see the changes in him after doing all this work…but the important thing is to see the changes in yourself first and trust that you have what it takes.
Pros and cons….Ready….GO!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Is it possible (just musing here) that you're "crazymaking" with h because you want him to convince you one way or the other re. the M? IOW, holding him to these "nothing you do is good enough" standards as a way to convince yourself that you're right, he's not the one for you? OR, even more remote, if he did do ALL that you wanted ALL the time that then you'd know "ok, he's it"?
Or maybe you just want him to continually prove to you over and over again that you're selected by him? kind of a regular boost to your sagging confidence?
what if you cut both of you some slack? You don't have to KNOW whether or not this m. is "right" for you at this moment...can you ACCEPT the ambiguity? Can you say to yourself...I don't need to decide now. Maybe lightening up on your need to know will allow you to lighten up on him.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I can't agree MORE with Meredith and Sage here--about the crazymaking.
In the height of my crazymaking adventures (I was pretty unhappy at the time), I would continually pick fights with Mr. Wonderful. These fights would always begin about something else, but the body of them would be the same every time:
1. You don't love me, do you? (He would answer yes, and then I would point out all the reasons why I chose to believe he was lying.) 2. You ignore me. (Wow, I wonder why?) 3. You value your time away from me and the girls more than your time with us. (I planted the seed.) 4. No matter what you say or do, it's a lie in my head. 5. I want out.
Karen, the reason Mr. Wonderful moved out was a compilation of a lot of things. But I really don't feel that he would have chosen to leave if I hadn't have continually planted seeds in that garden, cultivate them, and then encourage them to flourish. He is not the "leaving" kind of guy, really.
And in his final tirade to me when he was walking, he screamed back at me, "Betsey, I don't know why the hell you're so upset: this is what you've wanted for years! Now leave me the hell alone!"
Karen, it still hurts like hell to type those words. Because I know that what he said was what he thought were true--after all, I said those words, and I said them with conviction and OFTEN.
I drove him away because I had a fear of abandonment, and I got it.
I promise you that if you continue to throw those sort of words and actions out there, you will get what you're asking for.
Do you have a fear of abandonment or something else that is driving you to look for the negative in your life with him?
I'm not carrying a 2x4, so please don't fear speaking up here. I think that getting this out in the open once and for all is going to clue you in on why you behave the way you do with him.
I really don't want to see you head down my path, Karen. It's a pretty lonely trip, full of remorse and regret.
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Last night I stuck to the plan: took migraine med., ha eventually went away. quit crying (did not look all red & puffy when I got home.) was pleasant, friendly, talked to h about the road bikes he was looking at on ebay. (It was too rainy to go hiking/biking.)
after a little while, I said that i was going to go get some food to cook, how does this sound? he said fine, I go, cook, we eat...my mom stops over, then she goes home and hears noises and wants h to come over. H & I go over. He packs his gun! I was surprised (I never thought I'd want to live with one in the house), we go over, we look upstairs and he walks around outside. I felt complete and utter admiration and pride for him. I totally trusted him and thought, "WOW! What a man!!" we go home, get to bed, snuggle, he init's . I DECIDE (Oh, i've been very cool, and unassuming all night) to be totally selfless, and ok, i brought him to tears. So, we snuggle some more and then he brings me to tears!!! WOW!!! I said, "It just keeps getting better and better!!"
There is more!!! He took my truk to work to fix the two license plate bulbs, well not only did he fix that, but one of my blinker lights, one of my dash lights, changed the oil, fixed my emergency brake, and is now replacing my antennae. I thanked him big! I asked what my bill was, but he did not answer.
In response to you wonderful women, I do all of the above!! As Dr. Phil would ask, "what is the payoff?" Like Sage said, it is getting him to the brink of rage and leaving, he comes back, and whammo, that's my payoff. He still loves me.
No, I've never heard of a SAD clock, I know about uv lights though...
Ok, I need to drop the "proving myself" and jumping through hoops. I'd put the hoop in my closet, but there's no room. How 'bout and just toss it with the garbage??
I am commitment phobic and afraid of abandonment. What's weirder is that I'm more afraid of him staying with me and neglecting me rather than leave. ? Make sense? Much like my parent(s) did. I am so HUGE on not being taken for granted that I am hyper-vigilant.
I feel the biological time clock ticking. I will be 35 in August and would like to have kids some day!
*I'm always ambivalent!
Whoa, total similarities in UD's c-making!!! Never believing what h says...
I think I did well last summer b/c I really was afraid that h WOULD leave. Now, it's just kinda like, "well, he's still here, yadda yadda." (over-generalizing to make a point). So, I AM TAKING HIM FOR GRANTED!!!
Quote: I feel the biological time clock ticking. I will be 35 in August and would like to have kids some day!
Uh, if he leaves, you realize this is pretty difficult?
Now, you admitted here before God, man and BB posters that you are going to throw the hoop in the garbage. Good! Because you've now given yourself permission to jump down the chute (we're now playing chutes & ladders) and bypass rolling the dice.
How?
Your H loves you. This means you don't have to continue to make him audition or prove yourself, right?
What will you do to address the commitment phobia and fear of abandonment, Karen? They're not silly issues and shouldn't be taken lightly... and I'm going to say this now so we can get it off the table in further discussion:
If you don't deal with this now, before you have children, it's going to keep resurfacing until you do. And you're going to pass along those issues to them in your subliminal parenting style.
I didn't get my fear of abandonment without learning it first...
All in good time, dearie, all in good time. In the enlightened age we live in, you have some decent opportunities for bearing children for quite awhile. My cousin had her 1st at 40 and 2nd at 42...
So, how are you going to maximize your use of chutes and ladders so you can win this damn game?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
. I DECIDE (Oh, i've been very cool, and unassuming all night) to be totally selfless, and ok, i brought him to tears. So, we snuggle some more and then he brings me to tears!!! WOW!!! I said, "It just keeps getting better and better!!"