I haven’t gotten caught up on where you are in this process, but this last post did catch my eye.
My H is the same exact way. When it comes to his friends, he’ll stay out all night. He’ll laugh and talk and drink and be merry. If they go to a game, he’s into it. When he goes out with me, he has to be home early because he’s tired. He has a beer, at most. He doesn’t clap and dance and sign along at Hard Rock.
If you have read far enough back, you realize that I am a crazymaker. I leap at opportunities for conflict. And I would play the role of the martyr and get bitter over the fact that he didn’t put as much effort in our time together as he did with his friends and their time together. Basically, looking back, I would ruin a semi-good evening (I first wrote perfectly good evening but decided that wasn’t quite the truth…) by moping.
So now? As you saw in my hockey post…I go and I have a good time regardless. I had to wonder, if he expected me to be disappointed and critical – maybe that is why he wanted to end the evenings earlier than he did with his friends. My fish is not quite trusting of me just yet.
And my other side of the coin was the OW. I always thought that he put more effort into himself when he was going out with the friends because of any female tag alongs. Well, I still do think that from time to time. BUT, if he is going for that purpose I will never know so there really isn’t any point in worrying about it.
Goal: the time he spends with me will be good. It will be good because I will make it good. Any reservations, complaints or disappointments I have will be put through the test of Betsey’s overnight rule and vented only to the BB. My husband will have no choice but to see me as upbeat, fun loving and easy going.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Ok, I'm going to play devil's advocate, and be brutally honest. You want to whap me, ok, but I have questions. I think this is what stops me from going on...See, I just don't know HOW to think. Not to be lame, but as I have said before, I want to get better, but don't know HOW. I go to C's-they say you need to feel better about yourself, but I don't know HOW. I need CONCRETE, TANGIBLE HELP!!!
I DO think that I am worth it, I just think that H should ACT like I am!!! I deserve to be cleaned up for and taken out & shown a good time. I deserve the effort. I am a HOT woman-most men would LOVE to ML with me all the time. I have never had any prob's with this before, but then again, have never been with anyone this long before.
We talked about romance before we got married. I pretty much felt that if he didn't want to be romantic/KLA, make effort for the R, etc., then he wasn't the guy for me. He said he wanted to be more expressive/emotional, etc.
I think that I take it personally b/c IT IS personal. He consistently does these things-stays out late, plays pool, gets spiffed up, helps decide where to eat, etc. with his friends, but NOT with me.
And, I think that if he were to ever say that he is disappointed about something, that I would validate his feelings and offer to help remedy the sit. Prob. is that I feel like he NEVER validates my feelings. I just want to be heard.
Quote: I suspect if you start making your h feel as though he is good enough in his actions towards you, Karen, he'll surprise you with how much more he can give. I also suspect if you keep making him feel as though nothing he does is enough...well, he'll pull back more.
I believe that this is true, but I've got this frickin' rope held so tightly in my hands. I don't know how to let go.
I just feel like telling him that if I am not worth the effort, or if he doesnt' know if he wants to be with me or not, then to NOT. Why string me along? I feel like I am being taken for granted. I feel like he slapped me across the face yesterday. "I want to spend time with you, but only 2 hours..." It just feels so conditional to me - his "if you get better...if you would only..." I feel like it is ALL on me, and I don't think that he is perfect and wish he would just admit it sometime and say, "gee, ya know what? I am being non-communicative, let me come up with a straight answer." Or "gee, ya know what, I really do want you, how can I help you believe that?" "Oh, you want romance? What can we do that would be fun to you?" And, I have spelled these things out to him. We have talked about it, we played a game that talked about it, and once he even asked ME for feedback on how to be more sexy...Does he do it? NO! Why not?
Because HE doesn't want to be controlled? b/c he doesn't think I deserve it? b/c he doesn't think I am worth it? b/c he doesnt' want to expend any energy besides just sitting and drinking a beer? Yes, he is present physically, but emotionally?
That's what it seems like to me.
thanks for letting me air my dirty laundry. I don't think you are being harsh, Sage, I am just letting you guys know how I think & feel so I can get support and help to change it. If I am totally twisted and off-base, ok, I need to know. I need to know what to replace these thougts with...
I usually hate too many quotes in one post, but I think it will be easier here...sorry!!!
Quote: I DO think that I am worth it, I just think that H should ACT like I am!!!
Do you act like you are? What can you, Karen, do to make yourself feel good? What if there was a written rule that you received today that said you are responsible for your own happiness for a month. What would you fill that month with?
Quote: We talked about romance before we got married. I pretty much felt that if he didn't want to be romantic/KLA, make effort for the R, etc., then he wasn't the guy for me. He said he wanted to be more expressive/emotional, etc.
So...is this a deal breaker?
Quote: I think that I take it personally b/c IT IS personal. He consistently does these things-stays out late, plays pool, gets spiffed up, helps decide where to eat, etc. with his friends, but NOT with me.
Right, I know first hand the frustration. But what is happening now isn’t working for you. SO…what can you do that will grab his attention and show him that you like to do these things also? Can you ask to go with them? Call spontaneously and tell him to meet you somewhere fun? Ask to go out after the BLT?
Quote: And, I think that if he were to ever say that he is disappointed about something, that I would validate his feelings and offer to help remedy the sit. Prob. is that I feel like he NEVER validates my feelings. I just want to be heard.
Ah, but you have the resources under your belt that explain the importance of validation. He does not. They have to learn by experience. Catch him doing something right and thank him profusely for that. Maybe he’ll get it.
Quote: I believe that this is true, but I've got this frickin' rope held so tightly in my hands. I don't know how to let go.
What are you afraid of?
Quote: I just feel like telling him that if I am not worth the effort, or if he doesnt' know if he wants to be with me or not, then to NOT. Why string me along? I feel like I am being taken for granted. I feel like he slapped me across the face yesterday.
Uh oh…crazymaking…
Quote: "I want to spend time with you, but only 2 hours..." It just feels so conditional to me - his "if you get better...if you would only..." I feel like it is ALL on me, and I don't think that he is perfect and wish he would just admit it sometime and say, "gee, ya know what? I am being non-communicative, let me come up with a straight answer." Or "gee, ya know what, I really do want you, how can I help you believe that?" "Oh, you want romance? What can we do that would be fun to you?" And, I have spelled these things out to him. We have talked about it, we played a game that talked about it, and once he even asked ME for feedback on how to be more sexy...Does he do it? NO! Why not?
Question: if someone had asked HIM about his feelings on this, do you think he would say “oh yeah, I just did that to piss her off?” What would HE say is the issue here?
Quote: Because HE doesn't want to be controlled? b/c he doesn't think I deserve it? b/c he doesn't think I am worth it? b/c he doesnt' want to expend any energy besides just sitting and drinking a beer? Yes, he is present physically, but emotionally?
Because he’s not sure that there is a problem or how to fix it?
Quote: I am just letting you guys know how I think & feel so I can get support and help to change it. If I am totally twisted and off-base, ok, I need to know. I need to know what to replace these thougts with...
Duh! You’re supposed to clue us in on your thoughts and feelings! And in turn, we are supposed to support you and help you find better solutions!
I think if you are looking to replace thoughts…stop playing the victim role. Start taking an active stance here…and see where it can take you. I might be off base since I’ve only read these last few posts…but in my sitch, I loose more when I spend time on the victimization of myself…negative thoughts…etc.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Oh, I thought I was telling what I thought, guess I really didn't say much about my feelings.
I feel hurt, disappointed, jilted, unloved, unworthy, not good enough, and rejected. I feel confused. I have told him what I would like and what would help, what he can do... I feel tired. I seem to do most of the planning, initiating stuff to do, initiating sex, trying to figure out things to do, etc. I just feel like in some regards this R is lop-sided. Granted I am most adventurous and a big planner, but I get tired of doing it ALL the time. Or if he asks what I want to do, I answer, and he either says no or ignores my request. Why did he ask???
Maybe I don't act like I am worth it. I'm not sure. I have been doing more of my own thing: I've been playing vball, going out w/ff's, and now have a new group of people to rockclimb with. I just want to do stuff w/h too!
Physical activity makes me feel good, and I like a lot of sex!! If I don't get it from him??? I know I could mb, but it's just not nearly as fun or satisfying! I like to try new things - restaurants, clubs, activities...
H knows what I like to do, it's just a matter of getting him to do it-WITH ME. However, we are now going to bike together and that will be our new "thing" since he can't climb walls anymore.
I say let's do this, but then I have to be the one to get up and move and motivate. sorry, but I have to motivate myself let alone another person! When we were dating, he said he liked me b/c I like to do stuff and I helped get him off the couch. well, he's gained 30-40 lbs and now I can't move him myself. **joke, but true.** I ask him to do something and I get this UHUNGUH answer which translates into I don't know. I have quit asking him what he wants to do, b/c I cannot get an answer. asking questions does not work.
Prob. is I feel like he doesnt' care by not helping to make plans, initiate ml, etc. He just seems SO f'in apathetic! I want to smak him or my head against the wall! I cannot make him feel differently about me, or motivate him-that has to come from him, no?
Deal breaker? As in, if I don't get romance, would the m be over?
I'm afraid that if I quit initiating, planning, NOTHING will happen. We'll sit at home on the couch, have sex once a week, and not have romance. A 180 for me is to quit pursuing him, but I have such a hard time b/c I want these things so bad and b/c I am horny...a lot!!!
I agree that H would not say, "yeah, I did it to piss her off." But, he knows what DOES piss me off and he still does it. We had this discussion a few weeks ago. He said, "if I knew something p'd you off, I wouldn't do it." I had to keep from laffing! I said not to be smart, but I've told you how frustrating it is to try to communicate w/you and only get "uhunghuh." So, he has made some effort in this one day this week. :.)
Submitting this post now. I will add another that says what H would say. It will be long, and prob. painful. tx karen
Me crying/getting upset "all the time" turns him off. (Even though before we got married, he said he could deal w/me being emo. and that I should not apologize for who I am.)
I don't care about his feelings, so why should he care about mine?
He's not getting what he wants from this R so why should he give me what I want? (He wants emotionally stability and to get along-and like NEVER fight!)
He's reluctant to go out in public w/me for fear I will get upset. (This hasn't happened in over 6 months)
He doesn't want to put out the emo. energy b/c he just gets stepped on.
I sabotage our R.
He tried doing "everything" before and it didn't work, so why try now?
He wants to give me what I want (affirmation, affection, appreciation, attention), but doesn't feel that he can at this time, he wants to do it on his OWN time, and that I just have to deal with it.
He thinks that this R is too much work.
He doesn't want to spend time with me b/c we end up getting into these discussions frequently.
I am "ridiculous" when I get upset. (Meaning what I think)
I jump to the worst conclusions. (true)
I can't deal w/my own emo's so why would he want to share his?
He doesn't help plan b/c he is "easy-going and wants to do what I want to do." (BS-he says no a lot, and if that were true, we'd be having sex 4-8 times a week!
If we would get along for a longer period of time, he'll come around. (HOW long???)
He does think that he can "fall in love w/me" again.
He's not sure whether or not he wants to be m to me. He doesn't want to be miserable for the rest of his life...He's tired of this, he's exhausted...
Hmmm…I see two things that stand out the most here. 1. I think you married my husband and 2. you are spending an awful lot of time focusing on HIM!!!
Yes, my husband is just about the same – with a passive-aggressive twist. He’ll SAY he doesn’t care what we do, but he does. He’ll SAY he doesn’t care where we eat, but he does. He’ll SAY whatever the F I want to hear but does whatever the F he wants to do. Sound familiar?
Ah, so you have a lopsided relationship too. Well surprise!!! You aren’t alone. There are MAYBE 1% of relationships on this board that aren’t lopsided. The fact is, those of us with the knowledge are the ones who are going to have to do the work. The bad news? We find ourselves staring down the tunnel of resentment all to often. The good news? If this all blows up in a cloud of smoke we’re the ones who will truly ‘make it’. Okay, so push up your sleeves…
First thing I see:
Quote: I feel hurt, disappointed, jilted, unloved, unworthy, not good enough, and rejected. I feel confused. I have told him what I would like and what would help, what he can do...
Well here is one of the problems of resentment. Check that statement out…YOU feel hurt, disappointed, jilted, etc. That really is good to recognize. BUT…then you say that you have told HIM what he can do about that. Fact is, it isn’t his job to do a damn thing about that. Don’t call a plumber to trim your trees! Guess who’s job it is to fix those things? (Hint, her name starts with a K…)
I know, I know…HOW? You answered that question too! I saw: Physical activity Meeting new friends Trying new things
Can you work those things into some true goals? Goals based on KAREN? It will alleviate the burden from H’s shoulders, and might lift some of the underlying resentment on his part.
Okay, on to H…
Are you familiar with the helicopter analogy? Well if you are…from my helicopter I see you walking next to the path. You know there is a path, but you aren’t really sure you want to be on that path. The path’s name: Hush.
On the path of Hush you don’t call your husband out. You don’t try to drag his butt off the couch. You ask for something once. If he is not deaf, he’s heard you. If he doesn’t want to do it – okay, no big deal. You can do it on your own. Yes, sex would be an exception here…but I don’t have much advice there! Betsey and I have both discovered (Betsey has more under her belt here than I do) that allowing the H’s to say “NO” has helped them come around. It is okay to say no. It is okay to say no.
The emotional stuff seems to be driving your H up a wall. My guess is because he is uncomfortable with emotions to begin with, and he doesn’t know HOW to handle yours. He can’t figure out what you are trying to get from him…so he avoids those emotions. I had a hard time with this concept, because to me – avoiding my emotions would be easy for him, all he had to do was something NICE and I wouldn’t get as emotional. Yeah, it isn’t that simple I found out!
Ask yourself…WHY do you get so emotional? I sense some crazymaker in you…and if you can work through that, I promise you can breathe easier.
Another guess here, but I believe that H goes out with his friends in the way that he does because it is a release for him. Could he make more of an effort to do the same with you? Well, yeah, of course! But…I think that he’s still afraid of the emotions. He doesn’t have anything to fear when staying out with his friends, although he may put off coming home because he does have those damn emotions facing him when he does come home. Make any sense? Even as I type this I remember being in that place too…that damn IT ISN”T FAIR place. But, as I always say, it isn’t your job to take care of fair – that is God’s job. Yours is to do what is right.
Emotions are natural …I’m not saying they aren’t. But with your H you really are going to have to work through some of these emotions and identify them for what they really are before handing them over to him. He doesn’t have a clue what to do with them!
Now, to balance…there are positives here also. You have the biking together thing. That can be great…if you make it great. He makes an effort to communicate with you one day a week? Use it girl!!
Your turn…rip all that apart!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Mer-CMU! (Cracking me up! I have to be diff. and not use LOL)
He wasn't always like this. He used to be more expressive, romantic, emotional, & compassionate. I know he HAS it in him. And, a lot of our ML is great-a lot of passion, and he really takes care of me. I try to take care of him too, and I think why not do what feels good more often?
When I say I have told him what would help-you said he prob. doesn't "know" what to do, when I have given him several examples!
So, he does the opposite of what I ask. How do I shut my big mouth and quit asking??? I am seriously beating a dead, buried 6 feet under horse with a stick that is broken and frayed from beating so much!!!
I'm tired of being the one that has to do ALL of the work! Sorry...OK, so a lot of people here are doing that. I guess I just haven't convinced myself that this m is worth it.
YES, I admit to being a crazymaker. I like stimulus! As you see, I have mentioned that I hate to sit and watch tv (unless it is Sunday.) I mean how many CSI, SVU, Miami, Special Crime, Sodomy Unit shows can I frickin' watch in one week??? When we were dating, I told him I didn't like tv, "Oh...me neither..." was his response.
There have been positives here and there!: He came to meet me on Monday after I went r-c'ing. He offered to ditch his friends to be with me on Wed. (this is huge) He is talking more about biking, and asked if I want to get a road bike and we would pursue more road biking w/club. (we have mtn. bikes) He said he would like to play raquetball, go mtn. biking sometime... He has complimented me a couple times in the past couple weeks.
IT'S NOT FAIR! IT'S NOT FAIR!!! Why do I have to take ALL the blame? I guess that is what I keep coming back to. Why do I always have to be the one begging for forgiveness and groveling? (I really stopped doing this pretty much). Why why why???
Ok, enough whining? I know Sage is right. I know that all of you are right. I even paid $130 that I barely have to have Joann tell me what is right. So why do I keep doing what i KNOW is wrong???
Quote: Ok, enough whining? I know Sage is right. I know that all of you are right. I even paid $130 that I barely have to have Joann tell me what is right. So why do I keep doing what i KNOW is wrong???
karen
It probably wouldn't hurt to do some serious thinking about the answer to the above question.
I was gonna post something earlier but got sidetracked...it was going to be that I used to think very much like you do...that I was doing everything in the r and that if I stopped nothing good would ever happen. But the bomb dropping made me take a giant step back, stop pursuing, stop always needing to be in control, etc.
I think you know from my sitch that there is NO absence of social activity with h....and he makes probably most of the "plans" now.
THEN I saw you write:
Quote: He wasn't always like this. He used to be more expressive, romantic, emotional, & compassionate. I know he HAS it in him. And, a lot of our ML is great-a lot of passion, and he really takes care of me. I try to take care of him too, and I think why not do what feels good more often?
Sigh.
He has it in him. and you're not letting it get out.
HOW?
By ALWAYS being the one to make the plans AND by expressing disappointment when he does do something.
WHY bother letting it out, he must think? There no room for ME to do anything and when I do it's not good enough.
another thing....
you're making all kinds of leaps and ASSumptions about your worth based on his activities.
You said something like "I've told him what I want and need and he still doesn't always do it. Aren't I WORTH it to him."
Ahem....how about "I've told her what I want and need and SHE still doesn't always do it. Aren't I worth it to her?"
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
and 2. you are spending an awful lot of time focusing on HIM!!!