Why do you think he's "messed up" "in crazy land" right now?
Aside from the fact that's he's actually said he's messed up, it's the usual story of rewriting history, shifting blame, etc. although he has improved a great deal over the past couple of months. His biggest issue, from my perspective, is he can't quite decide what direction to take. He says he likes his new "life" but it isn't fulfilling and doesn't make him happy, but he doesn't feel at ease at home either. He's never been the indecisive type who makes decisions by not making them, but it looks from here like that is what he is doing. But, he has to work that out for himself. I know that.
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What was missing in your M before?
In general, communication and intimacy (not the physical kind). We just grew apart. I started feeling neglected as result of his drive in his work and after trying to reach him (in my non-confrontational way) with no response, I just kind of gave up. So, both of us were feeling like the other one didn't care, but neither of us talked about it. We talked a lot about that on the trip we recently took and I think it was good for both of us to finally understand what was happening back then. I see that as a positive step ... some long overdue communication.
While he was here this last time, quite a few of the "baby steps" on my list were fulfilled, although there were some road bumps along the way. I had given up and suddenly I have some hope. But, like my changes, they have to be sustained.
As for my changes ... it's kind of funny. At one point a few weeks ago he indicated he might come back permanently and I got frazzled. All I could think was that I like the person I am now and I don't want to go back to the way things were. Lots of talk about that with IC! So, I intend to make my new attitude and changes permanent, regardless of what happens.
I think that right now I will continue with maintaining minimal contact from my side, keep being pleasant (as I have been) when he does contact me, refrain from doing any pursuing and maintain that PMA. That seems to be working for now.
I guess I will have to let him give me some indication that the time is right to risk a little more.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
Yikes this is a long post for you. I mean, you did ask me to stop by...so here goes and yes I finished the thread!!...
Originally Posted By: 2Times2Many
Well, I don't want a D. I want to rebuild. But, I know it takes two to do that and that it's hard and sometimes painful work. Until the past couple of weeks, H made it very, very clear that he wasn't interested. Between march and now, what has HE done that makes you think he IS interested in changing things enough to make you want to be MARRIED to him?
I don't mean what he says, or the affection and kissing, but a significant action on his end that shows true movement towards making a home with you?
You SAID you cannot live this way anymore. I don't see any indication of big changes on his end, but I do see more stalling on his end and a ton of red flags about money and not disclosing income, that scream to me he's hiding money.
Now I sense from YOU, wavering. You would accept this lifestyle for good, if you believed he were faithful to you, correct?
And if that is true (which I find sad b/c you are an introvert and it's not something you seem interested in changing, so HE is your life. And if you are willing to accept a part time marriage for the next decade or 2, that will get you to age 75-80...
Do you see your h taking care of you when you are not well, for long periods of time? You see him growing old next to you?
He has seemed to be torn between the safe haven (me) and the lure of "single" life. (All of his new friends are about his age, but have never been married.) I'm sorry but I don't sense him being torn the same way you do. I think he has mixed feelings b/c he does care for you, but he's also moody, and selfish and deceitful and that's the side in him that is, mostly but not always, winning in his battle.
As for me, I'm torn between standing or just accepting the direction my life has taken and moving on. Standing is not "Standing still". Also, I think your refusal to GAL b/c you are "introverted" is more about you being stuck. That's not a 2 x 4 (I hope), just an observation. And maybe a pattern??
Putting up with his antics may seem easier than divorcing, but in the long run is it what will give you peace inside?
The way I see it, I have 3 options. Stand and fight, accept being one of the "undivorced" for the sake of my financial future (I felt that H would be perfectly happy with that up until a few weeks ago), or moving on.
If there is hope, the choice for me is easy - stand!
So, I suppose I'm asking if anyone here sees that hope.
Is there hope? Gosh, I say there's always hope, but I've had 2 family members divorce and later, remarry their former spouses. So yes, it happens. So I don't happen to see divorce as the ultimate Finale that some do...
I think the way you are going now ---is teaching your h NOT to take you seriously and that's a form of disrespect to you.
You have showed him that being around at his convenience is acceptable, that you being alone for 90% of the rest of your life, in an empty bed all those nights, is acceptable.
You have taught him that periodic contact, only at his leisure, is acceptable. You have taught him that a lifestyle you SAY is unacceptable to you, is actually acceptable - so your words are not to be taken literally when they are applied to your m and him. It's acceptable b/c you have accepted it.
So I'm not sure what you are really willing to accept or do. You say "Stand and fight" move on, or "be undivorced" for the sake of your financial future---
so that I understand, let me ask you this:
FINANCIALLY SPEAKING, which is riskier for you, being undivorced
and hoping/praying he does not take advantage of you, leave you high and dry by hiding assets,
or just not leave you but hide assets, maybe stealing or embezzling and or spending a ton of money on OW, and still lying a lot,
or being divorced BUT in charge & aware of your finances?
I know IDEALLY he'd treat you right and all would be well, but that is not a realistic option at this point.
You ONCE said you could not do "This' anymore and you wanted to be a priority, but now it seems you are willing to be #2 or 3 on his list, is that more or less correct?
I'm not telling you to insist openly on some arbitrary boundary.
I'm just trying to clarify for you how I see your choices panning out for YOU. Maybe it seems easier in the short run to play second (or third) fiddle but in the long run over time I think it'll eat at you.
What would you tell your d or granddaughter if this were her life? Frankly, I'm very concerned about your financial safety.
To me it boils down this way:
IF IF IF You really mean it (decide that first!)
when you say you must be a priority to him;
then if he does not SHOW you with serious changes in HIS lifestyle, that you are his priority (and the business isn't),
then move on. OR cave and admit that.
If you cannot get a handle on where ALL the MONEY is, and get equal access to it, then I'd say you must move on.
(Or cave and admit it to yourself, which means no more saying one thing and doing another. IT's bad for YOUR self esteem and it confuses everyone including you).
IF he cannot prove there is no OW now, then I'd say you must move on (or cave and admit it, at least to yourself).
If he cannot do both of these things (ditch the OW and disclose ALL financial matters) ^^ within a short amount of time then I'd move on.
But that's me.
as for hopes about marriage...
I think your best chance for ending up married to this man in a way that YOU desire, is by ending THIS marriage.
It may not pan out at all but if not, that's b/c he's not willing or able to abide by the most minimal of requirements for 99% of h's.
IOW< he's either planning on leaving you sometime in the future,
or he's planning on keeping things as is, (until you or OW won't do it anymore);
OR OPTION #3
he's undergoing a massive change of heart (and is hiding it well) and is secretly about to announce that he's selling the company to someone else --- or hiring someone else to run it--- and you will be living together as h and wife, soon and for good....
Now...you tell me, what do YOU think the odds are, of option #3 being his?
And if it is #3, why would you insisting on having a real marriage, hurt the chances of a real reconciliation?
Don't you think he'd show you his cards if he senses a divorce is really happening AND he does not want it?
Don't buy into the "I would have come home but YOU divorced me right before I was about to change everything,
and now I'm so mad that i won't change so I'll show you..."
Aside from how "mature" that^^ is, it's also a high schooler's lie.
Anyone who knows what he has put you thru, knows you have the right to leave this situation and only a real jerk would think you don't. If he has true remorse, AND IF he also wants to be married to you, (in a way you find acceptable), he will know what to do.
I think your fears are about being alone at your age and I understand that. MY fear is you will end up alone anyhow, but with a lot less security.
And if there is a part of him that wants YOU, then truly fearing the loss of you is what he needs to truly awaken.
Your present course of action (and more "standing' as it has been done so far) will not awaken him or it would have worked by now.
That's my .02
Sorry but that's how I see it.
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 08/02/1403:59 AM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you for stopping by and for your insight, 25. Wow. A lot to think about and some real eye-openers.
You are absolutely correct. He hasn't made any major movement to change things. I hear a lot of promises, a lot of "I'm sorry," but no real follow through. He IS stalling. And deep down, I know why ... he needs me involved in the business here so he can do his thing there.
And, I have been teaching him that's okay. And, I do feel like he has no respect for me.
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I think he has mixed feelings b/c he does care for you, but he's also moody, and selfish and deceitful and that's the side in him that is, mostly but not always, winning in his battle.
You are correct and I agree. I have felt for some time that he's just trying to keep me pacified because he can't do what he's doing or keep his business here in good standing unless I participate. He knows full well that if we D, I will leave the business as well. And every time the sitch takes a step in that direction, he throws out a few crumbs and I fall for it. You're right. It's a pattern and I have to break it.
My issue is not so much losing him or my M, it's the business aspect. If we D'd tomorrow, financially, I would be fine (not as fine as I am now, but I'd be ok.) And, I would be ecstatic to shed the burden that the business has become to me. It would free me up to find more fulfilling ways to spend my time.
But, the role I play is an important one when it comes to our employees and leaving without having someone to take my place (which is where it stands now) could be devastating to the business - and especially to them. If not for that, I think - no, I know - the D process would be in full motion.
It's possible that he could scramble well enough to navigate that, but if he can't, I don't know if I could accept my role in hurting innocent people. But, I'm getting close to accepting that any negative fallout is his fault, not mine. (Why am I thinking of the movie "Ruthless People?")
As for hiding money, I used to think he was and my L can explore that, but I don't think so anymore. I don't want to go into details here, but it's pretty obvious to me he needs cash.
Proceeding with D would bring him back. He can't do what he's doing where he is unless the business here can support him and his venture, and he doesn't have the people in place here to make that happen. If he comes back here, the venture there suffers or dies.
If he thinks he has to come back, his resentment of me will be huge. D will be a nasty undertaking. It will be brutal and I will need a thick set of armor!
Thank you so much, 25, for your insight. You are so spot on in so many ways.
Maybelle, thank you for your support. It means a great deal to me.
Last edited by 2Times2Many; 08/03/1409:27 PM.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
he's planning on keeping things as is, (until you or OW won't do it anymore)
I think this is his plan until he doesn't need me in the business. I have no idea if OW is still in the picture, but assume she is since I have no proof otherwise.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
Yes, Maybell. I'm tired of being a doormat. And, I do feel empowered. I just hope I still feel that way tomorrow. I'll be re-reading 25's comments a lot! And contacting my L.
It'll be like walking through Hell, but I'll survive. Truth is, I don't really like the person he's become. If he had been like this way back when, I never would have married him. I know there's a good guy in there somewhere, but I don't think the goodness will come my way any time soon, if ever. I feel like he's written me off, so it's time I did the same.
I'll be fine ... this much I know.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
Right now, I'm just shaking my head. He sent me flowers a couple of days ago, has been texting "good mornings" to me and told me today on the phone that he didn't want to live where he is right now and wanted to move back home and create a "new normal" for us. He said he didn't like this "normal." I just said I didn't like this normal either and left it at that. To be honest, I just didn't know what to say.
As you can probably guess, I'm more than skeptical and will not repeat that pattern that 25 pointed out and fall for this stuff again. I've reached the point of "put up or shut up." I've pretty much avoided talking to him about anything but business and don't initiate any contact with him. The "normal" talk was instigated by him and I was totally thrown by it. It is really sad when the first thing that goes through your mind is "what's he up to now?"
But enough of that. My son and his family will be visiting for the weekend. I'm really looking forward to a lot of hugs from the grandkids! So, I'm in store for a hectic weekend, but a fun kind of hectic.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
In today's phone call H was cheerful and ended the convo by saying he missed me. I haven't heard that in a long time. It's like all of a sudden he's trying really hard. I just see it as more of the same and all of it is pretty meaningless to me. As advised by 25yearsmlc, I needed to see something concrete.
I was going to tell him that when he came back next time that I would prefer he not stay at the house and, truthfully, it would be a lot less stressful on me if he didn't. As long as he was being distant and somewhat cool toward me, that would be an easy thing to do. Now it's getting tougher. I suppose because I know how it feels to have your efforts rebuffed and it's hard to do that to someone else.
I just need to keep reminding myself that this is probably just more of the same game.
Me: 59 and holding H: :53 Me: 1 S, 1 D, both grown M: 19 T: 23 BD: 9-23-2013
