Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Dealing with WAW Part 2

Why is that unreasonable? Did marital assets purchase and maintain the aircraft?

I'm not an atty, don't even play one on TV but I'd check this out with one before you get too firmly entrenched. Is it a business asset purchased and maintained with business proceeds? Otherwise, it seems it would be part hers. Again, peanut gallery advice.

It is if you allow your mind to tell you that it is. It doesn't have to be. And again, that doesn't mean you roll over and play dead,

Wow, maybe you are an adversarial guy. That's just sad. I can understand why it gets your nerves jangling.

Were the lawsuits worth whatever the outcome was?

True. And you get to define how that goes with your thoughts and your actions.

What are your values, what is your mission in life?

How do you see yourself?

What kind of father and husband would you like to be seen as?

Is "winning" a big deal for you?

You've said this a couple of times, and I don't understand it. Can you explain more fully what you mean?


This is how you're choosing for this to be adversarial. Is there another way that this could be done?


Really? You have 2 babies with her who need care, so I don't see how financially kneecapping her helps them. Again, I'm not saying you roll over, just think about your motives, your choices and the consequences of those choices, not just to you. Your sons are watching you.


I don't think it matters what her mindset is, the important thing is your mindset.

And that's the only thing you can control.

Hi Pilot,

Labug you have given me some great wisdom in your post. Thank you. I like your use of the word "kneecapping" in describing hurting the W along with the 2 babies. It struck home with my sitch also.

Pilot I am an attorney but likely not one in your state. And I agree with Labug on the marital contribution on the airplane issue. To me on its face it appears quite reasonable, and not at all "unreasonable" as you suggest, but of course it all depends on the facts. But don't dismiss her claim so quickly. Be humble about this and take off your boxing gloves.

The airplane was a tool for personal transportation. The same as a car. It would be no different in her saying I owe her the money we put into a family car during our marriage, even though she enjoyed the use of it.





It is sad, but it is the cost of doing business in real estate development. Lawsuits were everything from defending easements to enforcing contracts. The chapt 11 I ran our development company through alone was $200k in legal fees.

As for the outcomes, they are what they are. Id love to have the legal fees back though! (sorry Wet!!!)






I have strong Christian values. I am a fair person. And a pretty decent person all things considered. There are very few people who ever have bad things to say about me.





Obviously the best I can be.



Depends on what we are talking about. I am not the guy who has to always be right. I do not feel the need to win just to prove myself to anyone. Divorce is not about winning. It is more about losing to the smallest degree possible.



By that I mean I do not HAVE to send W $xxxx.xx a month in support. I am not obligated to do anything to help her during the S. She is a young person and fully capable of earning an income. The state we reside in says we have not been married long enough to entitle her to a standard of living or alimony. Now, support for the children is a different story. I still maintain insurance for the kids and anything the kids may need she can come to me for. She has not done so to this point as she is staying with her parents. Heck, I can barely spend money on day to day stuff for the kiddos because I am staying with my father and he LOVES shopping for the little guys. Grandparents



I had thought of different ways, including sending the money directly to her parents so it does not funnel through her. But at the end of the day, she left, she filed, and she has OM. Not exactly enthusiastic about going out of my way to make her life a disney experience.



I never implied I would deprive the kids, as I never would. She is not helpless. She can get a job like the rest of the world (I think she has one right now).



point taken!

Thanks for chiming in Wet. It is a moot point anyways, because there is NO money to divide anyways. She can want want want, but if it is not there, it is not there

There can not have been a better time financially for me to get a D than right now

Yes, "she can get a job like the rest of the world." (I can hear the anger in that sentence) What was her job before?

What kind of job is she going to get after taking herself out of the work force for, what 5-6 years, to be a mother to your children? Unless she has a professional education (and that job market is difficult these days) she's going to be starting over, and having to pay daycare etc, etc.

There's often a hint of "well I made the money and all she did was stay home with the kids" in some LBH posts. Are you feeling that just a little bit?

This goes both ways, if we do something to get back at our spouse, we also hurt our children. That's why I say be transparent with your motives. Ask yourself, "Why am I doing this?"

Do you have the kids 50% of the time now?

I didn't suggest that you support her financially. My point was that the expenses on the credit card up to the time you S were family expenses and that as you said nothing has changed so they are your responsibility as the wage-earner in the household. Your contract for repayment of loans isn't with your W, it's with the CC company.

If you don't pay it, what is owed will be split at the time of D and then you'll have added fees/interest on top of what you already owe.

Same for any other assets such as cars. You either decide who gets what or they're sold.


Think about his some more. I don't know what Christian values means to you. I was raised in a very conservative Christian church and I can tell you, many of those tolks' values were all over the place.

This is where the rubber meets the road, Pilot. This experience can be your crucible if you're up to it. It sounds trite, but you get to decide whether this makes you better or bitter. Right now the bitter is winning.

What does your faith tell you about facing trials?

How this changes you is truly up to you.

Spring for a L consult. Sounds like you should have some good contacts due to your previous legal dealings.

As always labug, thanks for taking the time to interact with me during my ordeal. And please never take my "back and forth' as arguing or disagreeing with you. Discussions are my best way of learning, even if I sometimes play devils advocate against my own position.



She was 6 months out of college when I met her and started dating her. She was working as an exec assistant for the local cable/internet company we used in our projects. Shortly after we dated, I gave her a job with our company which really had no responsibility...it was more to give her the freedom to travel with me and have time off whenever we wanted. I realize she will have to start from scratch with a new job. And I sympathize. After we married, I never pushed one way or another for her to work, or not work. It was always her choice. She chose not to. She enjoyed a very active social life. I absolutely see the value in SAHM. The income we had was never "my" income, it was always "our" income and I referred to it as such. As our income began to shrink and was no longer sufficient to cover all the bills, our income went to pay the bills under her name first. This was a choice I made. During this time, I never pressed for her to work, but she always knew it was an option for her. So there is no anger in my tone. My tone reflects a reality most people have to live by. Which is we cannot always have everything we want, and money does not grow on trees.



Yes, we split the kids 50% timewise right now. I understand you are not asking or inferring full financial support. And yes, her cc bills are family expenses. As are mine, as well as all the other bills I have pilled up. My conflict comes in not in paying her cc bills in the long term, but the priority of paying her cc bills before my own bills get paid at this point. I have not paid a cc bill of mine in months, and some have even been charged off at this point. But hers have been paid. Yes, I could continue to pay her cc bills and continue to neglect my own bills. Not going to hurt my credit any, and if I do end up filing chapt 7 not really an issue. But why should she be able to cake eat? OM is good enough to fulfill her emotional needs, and possibly her physical needs. Why is OM not good enough to fulfill her financial needs? And please do not take that as a bitter statement. It is more of a rhetorical question probably asked by a lot of LBS. She wants the cake of what OM offers, and has no problem with the hurt that causes me. But wants to eat it too by having me meet her financial needs.




fair enough question. Think 10 Commandments.



I would not say I am bitter...although I may have started out that way. I would say it is more that I have detached to the point where I am indifferent to her problems. While I accept my actions in the past played a role to in getting our marriage where it is now, she has to accept her own actions. It is not my responsibility to make this process as comfortable and painless as possible for her. It is my responsibility to be the best dad I can be and take care of my kids. At this point I am living with my own father to save money to make sure I can provide for the kids. Paying cc bills in my name or her name are not on the list of priorities.




I have consulted with a L, as well as continued contact with many of my friends who are L. They all say do NOT pay her anything at this point. They encourage a much more aggressive posture than one I have adopted.

I just met my W to get my kids today. Everything was pleasant as always. We ate at Cracker Barrel and everything was upbeat and positive. Conversation was benign like last time. She did not compliment me on my appearance for the first time since we started swapping kids during our S. I had never returned the compliments to her. When saying goodbye she initiated a hug again, but it was a much shorter one than last time when she intentionally prolonged it.

No mind reading, but I am concerned as discussed earlier that maybe the 'road home' does not look too well paved for her. Perhaps some suggestions on how to smooth out that road without jeopardizing my DB efforts. She has been initiating text messages outside of kid related stuff. She also turns the facetime onto her herself when I am talking to the kids so she can idle chat. I have maintained a NC unless kid related stance. I also have not paid her any compliments. I think I have the LRT/NC/detach part down...perhaps too well.

Any suggestions from vets or those who have walked in my shoes? I have no problem continuing on the path I am on and waiting for her to make a more direct approach to discuss R. I just want to make sure she knows there still is a road home (especially since I pretty much told her there was not going to be, then went dark).

Thanks!

Pilot,

This will go against the grain here but I'll share anyway. I went 7 weeks NC (me initiating with WAW). When I finally did, she was receptive and that's when I noticed she started to increase contact and initiate contact with my mom.

I talked to her today on the phone, she wants to date again! She said that she was always the one in the R to extend the olive branch and that's why she didnt reach out sooner even though she wanted to. She didnt want that to be a part of a new relationship IF we were to reconcile.

That made no sense to me because she LEFT ME. But alas, that is how she feels.

For me, contacting WAW a few weeks ago was a thing I had to do for ME. I was tired of being stuck in paraylsis by analysis. I was either going to make things better or blow them sky high and ruin them. But either way, I needed to do something, anything.

I'm not giving you the green light to start texting her. I just wanted to give you my .02 cents.

I think there comes a time where you need to switch it up and monitor your results. For me, that was 7 weeks NC.

Thorn,

Thanks for your input. I read your posting. Great news for you! I will post over there with some thoughts.

I am sure there is some merit to testing the waters in my sitch. I am really just not sure to what extent. I did do something earlier. I had the kids at a really popular 'tourist' place for dinner. I took picts of the kids, and ended up sending one of each of the kids to her. She has done this frequently in the past 10 days or so. I do not expect any kind of response, as I assume she is working this evening. But nevertheless, I broke the NC I had been doing.

Another interesting turn (no mind reading, just journaling) was today she referred to me as her husband twice in conversation. Once when she was telling me a story about her interaction with someone in the past day or so, and another today when we were interacting with a 3rd party. I am sure it is nothing, but it has been a while since she used that term to describe me.

Ok you reached out and sent her some pics. Now lay low and let's see how she responds in the next week or so.

There's some good things happening in your sitch. Stay the course.