Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Need better plan of action, H is home but distant

I don't know if anyone will see this because I haven't updated in a couple of weeks, but it's the only way I can think of to vent without confronting my H.

I'm getting to the point where I want to push him for an answer as to what he's planning to do so I can get on with it. I am just sick of feeling like he can waffle from month to month, year to year, making no real decision, not really in my life but not really out of it either, and I'm just standing by, not making waves, living a sort of together life yet a separate one. I've been really careful not to start any "talks" with him but this is so confusing, I just want to know - are you planning on leaving? Do you want out? Are you just biding your time? Are you planning on staying and just not ever being affectionate or sexual with me again? WHERE DID YOU GO?

I know this is something so many of you have gone through and are going through, and are likely handling it much better than I am. I just can't understand for the life of me what could possibly be going through his mind. I don't know how many more months I can just do "nothing".

I get sad whenever I see photos on facebook of friends of mine and their husbands, smiling away, or doing life stuff like visiting their relatives, going on trips, taking their kids places, or husbands just looking like they're actually present and happy in their wives' lives and couldn't be more content. I look at my H and wonder, does he even love me? Is this really all about his MLC or does he just want to have a calm home life until he high tails it out of here?

Then there are times we hang out together or with our dogs on a hike or something, but it's like he's on autopilot. Wearing his ring, still my H, but not really engaged with me in any way. Laughing, but not really close to me. Speaking to me about this or that but no real love. Just a shell.

I'm thinking about going to see our therapist to get some clarity around this, not even sure if it's a good idea to mention it to my H. I don't want him to think I'm pushing. I'm just really mind tripping off this whole thing, and I don't have many people I can confide in about it.

Part of me is saying, maybe it's not a MLC after all. He just simply doesn't like or love you anymore so wake up! And that's the part of me that feels like I should ask him about it. We still haven't spoken about our last huge fight months ago, so I have no idea what is what. I just want to feel like I'm in a marriage that will somehow balance out someday.

Another Stander suggested you read "5 love languages", have you done that?

You say you don't know how many more months you can "just do 'nothing'". If you implement speaking to your husband in his "love language" and are out and about GALing and doing your 180's to be a better person for your self, you are doing something.

Doing those things for you will help move things along in your sitch. Also if you speak to your husband in his love language he may want to know what he can do to speak yours and you can share the 5LL book with him at that time.

When you go for hikes w/ the dogs and your H, you be the one to "act as if" you are having a great time, tell him you really enjoy walking with him, have fun ...."acting as it" may help bring him out out of the "auto pilot" mode.

For now your focus should be on you and what changes you need to make.

Here are links for a former poster named SDFoundGirl, her H was in the home, she detached, GAL'd, 180'd and after about a year of doing that and not letting his behaviors affect her, she and her husband began piecing (piecing then took another year or so until they got back to 'normal") and eventually reconciled their marriage....maybe you'll find it helpful to read some of her beginning threads

Help So Confused

Some DBing Questions

Journey of a life time IV

Journey of a Lifetime V

Thanks Mimi30, I have just gotten the 5 LL book - haven't read it yet. (Although I did take the test online once).

I will read all of the links you posted - I'm open to learning more of what I could be doing here...and of course, GAL.

Hi all - I haven't been here in a while, but this has been a great board for support, and I've learned a lot from everyone I've interacted with here. I'm hoping I can lean on you once again for your insight from those of you who know better than I do. I'll try to summarize what happened in the past leading up to now.

I had originally posted here about a year and a half ago - at the time, I had just confirmed suspicions that my H of 6 years (4 yrs then) had been having an affair which had been going on for a couple of weeks. He denied it, then got angry, then when it was obvious it was true, moved out / I kicked him out, (it kind of happened simultaneously with all the commotion). He tried to come back almost right away, saying how remorseful he felt and wondered if I'd ever take him back. Weeks later, we started to try again and he moved back in.

It was challenging, but from that time, we went to counseling for a while, he did tell me everything about the affair and cut off all contact with her. I felt like we got through it, and I've worked really hard to forgive him fully. I almost never bring it up at all (had a slip once or twice where I did, but it almost never comes up anymore). From what I've seen, he hasn't done it again. Our relationship has always followed a similar pattern - lots of support and love, really good solid connection and great times together, and then an upset where we both get angry and say things coming from a very hotheaded place - we haven't yet figured out how to navigate away from those type of fights.

My part is that once an argument starts and he gets snappy or mean, I won't back down, I don't let up and I exhaust him into shutting down or blowing up more. He gets angrier, shuts down and tells me to stop talking, which of course makes me stay and keep arguing. It's like once the anger flares up, neither of us will budge.

Last week it happened again. We were both really tired from our week, a stupid fight ensued, both of our tempers flared and he told me to leave him alone, he just needed space to relax. I wouldn't. We both told each other to "leave", I alluded to leaving him, he reacted, it got more escalated and eventually he just jumped up and took all of his things and started loading them into his truck. Angry, hurt and behaving like a jerk, I 'helped' him and began putting more of his things on the porch, which seemed to make him more angry. Eventually I thought better of it, and left it alone, heading off to bed. He stormed in after all his things were loaded and tossed the house keys on the bed.

I figured this was another grand display, and just did nothing, figuring I'd let things cool down. I assumed it would blow over in a few days and was hoping he'd come back. He texted me 2 days later to say he needed to come and drop off the dog again and get into his garage, and I left some small things I got for him out hanging on his garage door (my way of a peace offering). He didn't take the things I left, but drove away again to wherever he was going. I was worried about him and how he was doing, but figured it best to let him be, because I had done enough in the way of angering him, and I felt bad.

Because he can hold a long grudge where he won't speak to me, (he's done this a few times in our marriage) my normal routine is to reach out once I can't take it anymore, apologize, and be the one who worries about how he's feeling. Then it's usually my guilt that kicks in where he tells me how much I've hurt him and how he doesn't want to / can't continue to experience 'this' again. And I end up feeling like I'm the worst wife in the world.

The truth is that we've both hurt each other, he does things that are very painful for me when he's upset, and I've done things to hurt him by what I say. But for some reason, I always end up feeling as though I've done more damage, which is exactly what's happening again now.

We texted last night and I asked him if it was ok for me to cash a check he gave me for bills last week. He asked me not to, because he needed his money for his rent and "security deposit". I was surprised, because I assumed he was either staying with friends or maybe at a hotel, I didn't know he was looking for a place. I asked him to buzz me.

He called me right away, and essentially told me that he felt I had kicked him out, and that he didn't want to live in a way where he felt he didn't have a roof over his head, or a key. He said if it weren't for his 2 jobs, he could easily have been on the street, and he had spent over 1K in hotel bills already. I told him I had no idea he felt that I had kicked him out. Although we were both saying things like "why don't you leave then", and that I had been like a real jerk, that I would never in a million years leave him homeless, or kick him out on the street. This is something we've both said out of anger before in an argument. It was a stupid fight that I regretted. I apologized for the way I acted and told him that I was worried for him but figured he was just cooling down. I said I thought he would be coming home in a day or two, after he stayed with one of his friends, maybe. I never knew he was going through all of this, and that all I could tell him was that I cared about him and was wrong for behaving the way I did.

He told me that after a week of being homeless, he had a sort of awakening, and that his need for a stable place to live where no one could kick him out or take his keys felt greater than his desire for the relationship, the way he saw it right now. He said he was 45 years old, and exhausted from having to figure out where to go, what apartment he could get within the next two days with a dog, now that it had been a week of being out of the house. He didn't want to be having to deal with this, this was something he would've has to deal with when he was 20 or so. Now I was feeling more guilt.

I honestly felt and still feel terrible. Once again, I feel like no matter what he said or did, that I've trumped it all by making him feel insecure about his own house. Somehow I pushed him out, although I felt it was his choice to act that way. His behavior was abhorrent, but mine was 'worse'. I tried to let him know that regardless of what was said in the fight, I never thought he would move out, I figured he was being dramatic. I had felt hurt, and so I helped move some of his stuff outside, but then stopped when I saw it upset him more. I said that he knows my heart, and knows full well that I don't have that kind of malicious intent in me to put him out like that. I can sometimes be mean and a "b", but I would never do something that, truly. I honestly just didn't realize what he was going through.

He was quiet, and let me talk and apologize and explain my side of things. But it sounded like he was in a low place. We hung up with no real resolution, and I told him that he would have to decide what he wanted to do, I couldn't make his decision for him, but that I was sorry for giving him the impression that I really wanted him to leave. If he felt he was really done, than that was another thing altogether. But if not, to please just know that I had no idea he was seeing things this way, going through this with hotels, rent, etc.

An hour later, I texted him that he should keep the money, that I didn't need it, and that I had no idea he was going through all of that, that I felt terrible. I also let him know that we (the dogs and I) missed him, and that if he decided he wanted to come back home, I'd leave the back door open for him for when he got off work. He replied thanks, but that I should go ahead and lock it, because all of his stuff was at the hotel, so he'd be staying there. I didn't respond, I just felt an overwhelming sense of guilt and "what did I do".

So here it is the next day, and I've been wondering if I should just leave it alone now, or what? I re-read DR the other night and have tried to implement some of the things I can do for now, like GAL and leave him alone to figure it all out himself.

Ultimately whether he comes back or not, I do have more things I need to change for me. I'm not happy with the way I acted, and I'm kicking myself for not just walking away when things get heated each time. This would've never happened if I had just done that!

Half of me feels like he'll come back when he's ready, and the other half feels like I've really done it this time, and he's over it and me. I know he loves me immensely, but maybe I really ruined things?

I should mention that about a year ago he went through what appeared to be a MLC, with suddenly stopping talking to me for a month or two, not sleeping in the bed, taking off his ring, suddenly drinking and smoking pot nightly, behaving like someone I didn't know and then becoming depressed and withdrawn. I figured this was going to take years, and tried to brace myself. Little by slowly he came out of it but maybe he's still in it?

I'm sorry this is all over the place - I just don't know how to handle this. Act as if I'm moving on? Or is it too soon, and I should be open to him reaching out to me if he does?

"Ultimately whether he comes back or not, I do have more things I need to change for me. I'm not happy with the way I acted, and I'm kicking myself for not just walking away when things get heated each time. This would've never happened if I had just done that!"

So you haven't changed then. Correct? What have you learned about DB then?

"I should mention that about a year ago he went through what appeared to be a MLC, with suddenly stopping talking to me for a month or two, not sleeping in the bed, taking off his ring, suddenly drinking and smoking pot nightly, behaving like someone I didn't know and then becoming depressed and withdrawn. I figured this was going to take years, and tried to brace myself. Little by slowly he came out of it but maybe he's still in it? "

Doesn't sound like an MLC. Sounds like he was fed up with the way you were treating him and shutting him down. He felt like he couldn't talk to you without being "scolded" so he got attention from the OW. You concentrated on that without changing yourself which is why even though there is no OW now, you find yourself in the same situation you are now.

So do you honestly love him enough to change? If not, then you might as well allow him to find happiness elsewhere from someone who really won't shut him down.

Being perfectly honest here. I mean, if you read DB or DR, you would know that changing your self FOR GOOD is first and foremost. Doesn't sound like that happened. Sounds like you just did it to get him back and then went back to your old habits.

He'll only come back if the changes are real and permanent. But that's up to you. If you don't want to change, then I seriously suggest you let him go.

Thanks Mr Bond. To answer your q, no I guess I haven't changed 100%, since I'm still having blow ups when we argue. I thought I'd made a lot of progress in that I've forgiven him for the A, and stopped bringing it up. It took me some time to get to the point where I could forgive... and I'd be lying if I said I was perfect and didn't have more work to do. I've even walked away when he's asked me to on a couple of occasions...not enough, I know.

It isn't that I "don't want to" change. And I didn't change anything up front just to get him back... I honestly do want to be different. I've gotten comfortable and let some things in me remain the same, and now I have to start all over and focus on what I can change for good this time.

I don't think it's realistic for me to take on all of the responsibility for everything that transpires though. He has always had the tendency to bolt, or to go for periods of time without speaking to me, even in the beginning of our relationship. Times when there wasn't an argument happening, like during a disagreement we'd have, he'd get frustrated and become argumentative, and then ice me out, refusing to talk or interact with me for days or weeks and I wouldn't understand . It was torture and can still be when it happens. Threatening to leave me, even before we got married has always been his 'go to' behavior.

I can see much of what you're saying, but does that also mean that everything including his A, his anger to this day and how he interacts with me are all somehow my doing?

None of it excuses my part in this, and it's not going to get better if I don't do something. Ongoing, though, I've had to let a lot of things slide that really hurt. I genuinely care about and love him, and yes I need to make lasting changes. I'm still getting there, and I'm willing. But I make mistakes, and I'll probably make more of them.

Every time we have an argument that ends in hurt feelings, I'm always the first to reach out and apologize. I think where I get stuck is that I feel like I forgive a lot of things he says and does, but there isn't a lot of forgiveness from him, and it always seems so final when I screw up.

I thought that's what marriage was about. You love, make mistakes, you learn, you grow. Every time I've screwed up, I feel like it warrants him leaving, or threatening to. When he screws up, I stand by him. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem fair to me.

Regardless of how I feel and how I think "it isn't fair", I'm still clear that I have work to do. My feelings are my feelings and I'm not going to pretend that I'm happy that he left, or that I'm not frustrated and angry about it. I don't want to bring this to my friends or family, because it's too painful and uncomfortable. Maybe in a few months I'll have better news to report and I'll have this all down.

"I guess I haven't changed 100%, since I'm still having blow ups when we argue. I thought I'd made a lot of progress in that I've forgiven him for the A, and stopped bringing it up. It took me some time to get to the point where I could forgive... "

This is a problem with many people who deal with an A. All they do is concentrate on the A without actually changing the thing that drove the spouse away in the first place. It seems as if your issue was your anger. This has nothing to do with you forgiving him. The problem was still there.

"It isn't that I "don't want to" change. And I didn't change anything up front just to get him back... I honestly do want to be different. I've gotten comfortable and let some things in me remain the same, and now I have to start all over and focus on what I can change for good this time."

Again, this is a lesson for everyone on here. I don't know how many times people said that their changes were "for life" and then right after their spouse came back, they went right back to the way they were.

"I don't think it's realistic for me to take on all of the responsibility for everything that transpires though. He has always had the tendency to bolt, or to go for periods of time without speaking to me, even in the beginning of our relationship."

Of course it's not realistic, but you're missing the point. It's HOW you deal with conflict that's the issue. Guys shut down like your H does when he feels like there's no point in discussing things with you because you won't HEAR him. Didn't you learn anything about validation the first time you went through this? I have a feeling that he felt that no matter what he thought, you would override him or try to convince him that YOUR way was correct. You may argue against this, but the fact is that he shuts down or leaves. That's the response of a guy who isn't heard.

"Times when there wasn't an argument happening, like during a disagreement we'd have, he'd get frustrated and become argumentative, and then ice me out,"

Probably because he was trying to get you to listen to his POV and instead you argued back.

"I can see much of what you're saying, but does that also mean that everything including his A, his anger to this day and how he interacts with me are all somehow my doing?"

Of course not. But you'd be naive not to notice that your interactions have been the same even without the A.

"Every time we have an argument that ends in hurt feelings, I'm always the first to reach out and apologize. I think where I get stuck is that I feel like I forgive a lot of things he says and does, but there isn't a lot of forgiveness from him, and it always seems so final when I screw up. "

The problem isn't' "forgiveness". It's the fact that the manner of how you resolve the conflict is the problem.

"I thought that's what marriage was about. You love, make mistakes, you learn, you grow. Every time I've screwed up, I feel like it warrants him leaving, or threatening to. When he screws up, I stand by him. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem fair to me. "

That's from YOUR POV. I'm sure there are many times that you screwed up but he stood by your side. That's just your victim mentality speaking.

"Maybe in a few months I'll have better news to report and I'll have this all down."

Keep posting your progress here and we can guide you to the right way to interact with him.

Bestgal,

Sorry you find yourself in this situation. The shining light I see here is your statement that you both really love and care for each other. If that is really true, then yours is a situation where MC *can* work for you, because you can both be motivated to make things better.

From what you describe, you both suffer from temper and argument skills issues. That's the kind of thing MC can help you with. There are lots of techniques including taking a time out, commenting on the "meta dynamic" instead of the content of the argument itself i.e. "we're doing that thing again where we both get angry and start getting hurtful"

As Mr. Bond suggests this is an area where you *can* change your relationship by changing yourself, but you will be much more successful if H joins you on that journey. Why? Because H knows exactly which of your buttons to push.

If you consider a scenario where you are both sitting at a table and you wanted to make your H really really angry, would you know where to go and what to say? For most people the answer is a quick "yes". Now if you were sitting at the table and wanted to make him feel really really loved, would you know where to go and what to say? For most people, that's a much harder question.

I strongly recommend reading the book "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" -- it covers just how toxic shaming is to a man and things you can do to deal with the situation more productively.

Good luck! The fact that he loves you is a huge benefit.

Acc

Ok, now I've collected myself a bit from my stubborn, (victim) mentality this morning. Thank you for the honest feedback, Mr. Bond. And Accuray, I very much appreciate your input and support as well. I've already downloaded that book online just now and will read it soon. And that's exactly our problem - lack of communication in an argument, and two heated tempers when in an argument. Aside from that (and a couple of other minor things) I'd say we have/had an outstanding marriage. We really like each other, and have fun together.

What Mr. Bond said was very true. I haven't changed for life, or at all with my reaction-ism. I've changed how I react to one thing - that's his A. Aside from that, I haven't done much to help our situation, I've exacerbated it. I hope I didn't push him away for good, I would love to be the wife and mate that he sees as his ideal, and give him a break already. I also hope I can resolve this inside myself so it doesn't happen again. So far I've been praying about it and asking that it be removed or remedied somehow. I think I simply don't know how to take a step back when I'm already in a heated argument, and feeling defensive. I feel weak if I back down from what I see as an attack, which can't be entirely true. It's what I've learned in my family (5 macho brothers). Solve things with your anger, and no one can push you around. Somehow I need to unlearn this and work on establishing a new way. I still want to kick myself! I had a golden opportunity to do better and I didn't take it.

By the way, he was just here earlier to pick up some things from his garage and feed his reptiles out there too. He texted me that he was coming to do that, and I just replied ok. I didn't go outside, didn't engage in any way, I just let him do what he needed to do. I looked outside and he was petting the dogs and smiling. I just got back to being busy with work. Although seeing him smiling was confusing. But then I thought "knock it off, he should be happy to see them".

He did take the bag I left out there for him a few days ago, finally. For what that's worth. And he parked in the driveway this time, as opposed to out in the street, like last time. At least there's no fighting between us right now. I'm just treating him the way I'd want to be treated, with respect and honoring his decision to leave for good if that's his choice, and giving him space. Everything else is in his court, but my plan is to move ahead and not contact him for any reason. That could get me in a more hurt position right now, and/or give him more reason to flee permanently.

I may not have any more chances, but then again I might.

This is probably a question that comes up a lot for people, but I'm starting to wonder if I did all I could do? Should I be contacting him?

It's been quiet since he was here yesterday and left again. I'm assuming he's still staying at a hotel but I really don't know. On the one hand I think it's a good idea to leave him alone to figure this out himself without my interference. But on the other hand, one of the things he told me when we spoke the other day was that he thought I wanted him to leave, that I say things in arguments that he doesn't forget, and it lead him to think I'm not happy with him. Nothing could be further from the truth. When things are good I always compliment him, support and tell him how highly I think of him. We always say (said) I love you, he calls (called) me from work daily or twice daily just to check in. Now I think he doesn't know how I really feel, since he says he feels like I kicked him out as well.

Is it wise for me to reach out once more and tell him 'something'? Maybe he does think I don't want to be with him and is debating whether or not to even bother coming home, ever. Maybe it's my panic...I would hate to see him sign a lease on an apartment if there was something I should've been doing to make one more last attempt. Maybe my silence is seen as uncaring?

My usual thing is to try to reach out - although I don't know if that's such a great idea now. I did tell him on the call that I never wanted him to leave, and thought he might come back, etc. Anyone have a suggestion? I'm not obsessing or anything, I just honestly don't quite know which direction to go on this. Thanks.