I've been on this board for a few months and have ridden the rollercoaster from initial discovery to going to divorce mediation. That part of the story is back here:
Since then we finalized the parenting agreement and had about one more session before the mediator was ready to start drafting the financial/support agreement. Mentally I was at a point where I'd written off the relationship and was ready to move on. I had even gotten to the point where I was backing up bags and boxes and moving stuff out to the garage that I'd be taking with me.
All of the sudden my WW asks that we put things on hold and try again. She's willing to go NC and offers full transparency. She really feels that the best thing for all of us is to stay together and try to work things out.
Fast forward to this weekend. She's making the effort, but seemingly only on her terms. I go onto her laptop to pull her iPhone backup to see whether she was being honest about not speaking with the OM in several weeks...but she'd deleted the backup. When I confronted her about it, she said that we were getting divorced, so she didn't see how it mattered if she had been speaking with the OM at that point or not. She wants to be completely open about what she's doing now, but doesn't want me to sit around and dwell on what she did in the past.
Here are my questions: - Is it unreasonable to expect to know what she'd been doing in the past? Does transparency have more to do with what she's doing now than what was doing in the past? - She's asked that we start over being completely open with one another...does anyone see any issues with me agreeing to being transparent as well? - Remorse is an essential part of reconciliation...but is it something that should happen right away or does it sometimes take time? - I gather that rug-sweeping is a pretty standard approach for many waywards in the aftermath of the affair. Any advice on how to deal with this?
Walk. I don't see any of either the remorse or the self-awareness for you two to even be CLOSE to a mutually-healthy, equally-balanced relationship right now.
Down the road? Another matter. Maybe apart, she'll start to "own her s&*t" and begin to do the work necessary. There's obviously SOME connection there between the two of you, so who knows what the future might hold.
My two cents -- it's obviously your (very important) call, pkp. If you stay, I honestly see you being RIGHT BACK here 3-6 months from now, I really do.
Starsky
I really still don't see your wife having that "What will it take?"/introspective/remorseful attitude that I think is necessary for a successful reconciliation after adultery.
While I don't think the actual WORDS "I'm sorry" are always necessary (I posted in more detail on this to you recently), there is an overall "smell test" that I'm pretty good at spotting, and I don't think your wife is there yet. I think when she nears the brink and stares into the abyss, she gets scared and tells you what you want to hear, but at this stage she should be willing to answer ANY AND ALL questions that you have about her affair.
And for YOUR part, you need to be willing to listen with a non-judgmental, forgiving, "don't-lord-it-over-her-for-the-rest-of-her-life" attitude.
Unless BOTH of those are present, I've never seen a couple pull this off yet in all my years on here. Maybe once or twice, tops, if that??
I've started asking a few questions, but the hardest part that I have is accepting whether or not what she's saying is the truth! I can confirm whether or not a conversation took place on such and such a date from the phone records, but there's no way for me to confirm content. She's been willing to answer questions, but she didn't want to hand over the actual data. She claims that she's more committed to "making things work" than I really think. We're only three days in and I'm just not sure.
For my part, I honestly just want to be done with the affair...but I want her to have a sense of what it's cost me to get to that point. And I just don't know how to help her understand!
You need to tell her "This is what I need," and then list out what you need. Add "Whether or not you feel you able to provide that is completely up to you, but after all that has happened I've decided that this is what I need going forward."
Either she can provide you with that, or she can't, and you need to come across like an "That's okay -- I get it. Maybe we can get back together at some point down the road" type of attitude.
Or, if you want to be more blunt, I'd just say "You're testing me, and frankly you haven't earned that yet -- not even close. You asked me what I needed, and I told you. If you can't do that, please just let me know so I can stop wasting my time. Neither one of us are getting any younger here."
While Starsky's advice os on the money, there's a couple of points you might want to bear in mind.
Yesterday is yesterday. It can't be changed. Today is more important. Secondly, be careful what you ask for. Ask yourself if you can stomach reading the communication between them. You sound in a better place emotionally than when I read my wife's exchanges, but it is still a stomach churning exercise.
She SEEMS like she wants to move forward. Which is good in itself, but you're right in wanting trust also.
I'm not sure if seeing evidence of past crimes is going to restore that. Give her benefit of the doubt, but insist that this is a last chance situation. One more piece of contact with the other person and you are done!
Suspected EA: Feb 2013 Bomb drop: Mid March 2013 Separation: Mid April 2013 (I fought for marriage) Filed for Divorce: April 2014 Accidental Exposure of affair: June 2014
... Though I'm not completely familiar with your sitch, please let me add ...
The remorse - as Starsky told me two months ago - might not come in the way/form you think it should.
BUT, your W should AT THE VERY LEAST be willingly answering ANY questions you have about the A. And she should be 100% willing to agree to a full transparency plan (even if, yes, it may make her feel uncomfortable at first).
Figure out what you need. Then ask for it. If she's remorseful, she'll agree to give you what you say you need. That's just my .05 (inflation, ya know).
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I went through her e-mail this morning and (as expected) all of the e-mails between her and the OM were gone. I did turn up one that raised some questions (she'd sent her phone number to a guy she'd met on the last cruise). She didn't get upset that I'd dug into her emails, got a little bit defensive about it (nothing happened, they were with his brothers almost the whole time, he was 8 years younger than her and she doesn't like younger guys), but ultimately answered all my questions.
I'm still skeptical about whether she's just saying what I want to hear, but she's at least acting more consistently with what I was hoping for.
I went through her e-mail this morning and (as expected) all of the e-mails between her and the OM were gone. I did turn up one that raised some questions (she'd sent her phone number to a guy she'd met on the last cruise). She didn't get upset that I'd dug into her emails, got a little bit defensive about it (nothing happened, they were with his brothers almost the whole time, he was 8 years younger than her and she doesn't like younger guys) . . .
WTF??? You think this is appropriate for a woman who is supposedly piecing her marriage back together from her own infidelity???
Even if there was NOTHING going on there, this is HIGHLY inappropriate IMHO.
