Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Wife in MLC and ready to leave #4

Just a little nutty....


Oh...and 3 times on Mleigh4....

Humor too ???

Or are we not doing this ???

Oh, I thought by showing her that what her H was doing was kinda normal(is that the right word??)for MLCers it might help her. I remember thinking I was the ONLY person having to put up with what my S was doing and thinking it was only her or it must be me. Wasn't complaining, I was trying to commiserate with fellow LBS! I know it helped me to know I wasn't the only one seeing and hearing the crazy stuff I was (and still am). :-)

I get it, and I do understand it....

One thing that I want you to see with the direction that we are trying to take you in...is how you interact with others. Because it really DOES shine through...

You appear angry and defensive, and you explain yourself a LOT...

When it isn't actually necessary, here, and in life...

It makes you appear lack confidence in yourself....

Most of the people that are posting to you, "get it" , and understand you very well, and understand the circumstances very well.

The humor ^^^ , wasn't lost on me, and I knew what you were doing, and I expected you to explain yourself...

When you do that, it tells me that you are very unsure of yourself internally....

Was that always the case with you ???

Did you drag that into the marriage ???

It isn't always about the tangible things that we bring into the marriages, it is usually the things that we don't see, that affects them so greatly...

Not everything is an attack on your values and life...

And the more that you can focus on yourself, the less that the crazy will follow you around...

Make sense ???

Actually no, I was always VERY sure of myself. I only have become unsure since things went to H%4l at home. I have had to re-start several times in my life due to things outside of my control. Every time I was able to not only pick myself up but do better than before. I went from a highly tech. career to sales when I had a job fall through back in the 1990's. I had no experience but was able to be making really good money in less than a year. After that job went away after an injury, I started in one the most demanding sales environments there is, oil and NG. I got a brokerage Series 7 lic. and made 6 figures while watching hundreds of good, smart people come and go because they just couldn't make it. This is why I decided to try doing this as part owner after the co. I was with closed.

Whenever things got tuff I would just think I need to do this for my family and that kept me going. I do find that a lot of the people I find myself working with aren't family types. They are divorced or run around on their S's and think nothing of it. I never made many friends at work. I did make friends at my kids schools and they were all family type people.

I know I should be doing better at this job then I am by now but I have let my sitch get to me.I mean if I can't make the most important R in my life work, what am I doing wrong? This isn't something I am used to at all. None of this makes ANY sense to me and that has knocked me off kilter. I did everything the way I thought was the "right" way, the way a man is supposed to for his family and still I find myself here. I married someone who told me that they didn't believe in D, would never put the kids through it, etc. for a reason. Because while I was lucky enough to grow up with both parents, most of my friends didn't and I saw how bad that was. I vowed never to let that happen, no matter what but again, here I am. That can make you very unsure when the core values you have lived by that you thought you shared with your S are destroyed and you can't do a damn thing about it. That makes you a little unsure!

I want to clear up one thought right away...

Just because someone is divorced, does not mean they are not the "family type."

Do you see how that is an unfair judgement of someone based upon their circumstances?

Take a look around...you have suddenly surrounded yourself with people who are separated in one form or another or divorced...do you see any of us as people who arent "family types?"

Are you becoming someone who isnt a "family type" because you are going to be divorced?

What i am hearing is your motivation to succeed was your family. And you tied your confidence and idea of what a man in to that success.

So what about a man who doesnt make six figures? What makes a man in your view?

If you had to have something besides providing for a family to use as a yardstick to define what a man is, what would it be? What qualities should a man possess?

Matt,

You really don't "hear" me & I have never had someone get this angry at a person not in their lives, as you seem to be, at me. It's not helping you, is it? You seem to be in some sort of competition that you must be declared the winner of. I'm not sure if it's between you and your wife, and her family, or you and me, or you and the world, but I hope you'll restructure the approach. One can only manage so much. If you feel you are in a contest, remove yourself from it and make your life about you and your d's (and maybe anyone else in your family who is supportive to you).

I tell EVERYONE here, not to have a score card or list of grievances in their marriages. I had one in mine, and it was long. On MY scorecard, I was winning and my h was losing. He'd wronged me and the kids many times, on MY scorecard... Turns out, my h had his own scorecard! And on HIS list, I was not "winning". Not all of his grievances were BS either. I could defend myself til I was blue in the face, but what I had to do was 2 fold: I had to empathize with HIS perception, without denying it or arguing with it, and I had to do some internal work, which meant I HAD TO CHANGE ME...

Not b/c I was "wrong", but b/c what I was doing, was NOT working.

The "undiagnosed condition" of a daughter was NOT your d, it was someone else's. That's the only fact I confused. I already apologized for that mistake, horrendous as you seem to think it was.

Anyhow, here is what I actually wrote to you.


Then do it. Detach for real. Turn it over to God and keep going. She knows how to reach you if she wakes up or gets better.

From your description, your w has had psychological scars for awhile now, and she struggled mightily with depression for a long time.
I think these are the acts of a desperate, long suffering woman. IF you cannot feel compassion for her, step out of the way and feel some for your d's.


(I did NOT say you had no compassion.) Your words here:


The only thing keeping me from wanting her to go is the fact that I needed her income to help live until I made more money and I realized this is the biggest reason I didn't want her to go. That's not good.

To which I replied:


If your wife had said this^^, you would say she is a selfish user. At least now you are being honest. I'm a bit surprised at how she's been able to keep down a good paying job while feeling so depressed at home. Do you now think you might have enabled a lot of this by ignoring her depression, because after all, she was earning a good income? Any reflections on that?

Anyhow, back to YOU and your d's...

.....

Do you see why I believed she had been depressed WHILE holding the job down, based on your wording^^^ above? Can you recognize that your wording was not clear to me? To me, it seemed that you were admitting you only wanted her around b/c of the money b/c she was hard to be around, due to depression or other behaviors.

This is not about being "right"; it's about doing what helps the situation and getting to be happy. You spent a lot of time arguing with me, and that made no sense to me. Then you went on about it, again..

I challenged you, I did not attack you. But that's how you reacted, (and more than once.) What a waste of energy.

Anyone who wants to make this a contest about who was/is "right" and "wrong", will spin their wheels forever.

So now, along with Mach's suggestions and others, I suggest you focus only on your daughters and yourself,

and NOT on your wife, or the past, or predicting calamity in the future.

I know you think it's unfair. It probably is. (So is your wife's past, so is Africa...)

Deal the cards you're dealt and play them as well as you can. And choose your battles wisely. This won't be solved anytime soon, so you need to pace yourself.

cat04, You are reading more into that statement. It WASN'T JUST because they were divorced, high money sales attracts many certain type of men (and women) who are divorced BECAUSE they care more about themselves then anyone else, including their kids and spouses. Just a sad fact of the business. Some work too many hours trying to stay on top, others spend too many hours blowing off steam from the pressure.

Cat, you seem to almost want to see something there that isn't. Not only that it doesn't matter how much you make as long as you do every thing you can to take care of your responsibilities and that isn't just making money (hence "non-family type") but being there for the kids life events, school functions etc. The type of people I was talking about would never take a day off for that, that was what the wife was for. Do you really think after all I've just been thru I would say just because you are D, you aren't a "family type" person.

What qualities should a man possess? That varies on the man and what he values. A man has values. Things he lives by and are immovable first and foremost. He doesn't change his mind just because it's not in fashion. He has an open mind about most things EXCEPT his core values. These are different for every man. For some it would be God first, others not. What matters is he lives his life for himself, his family and can be counted on by those he loves and love him back. If someone in his life doesn't have the same values, he doesn't try and force them to live by his but he gives them an opportunity to see that if you share the same values he will give you his all, if not then you probably need to move along and find someone who does share the values you live by. A man is never punitive, never needs to threaten or try to force people to do what he thinks is best, he lets others know how he feels and if you feel otherwise he may try and show you or tell you why his way is better but in the end he leaves it to the other person to decide what is best for them. If they share his values and he theirs he gives his blessings freely, if they don't he doesn't.

My values include that I don't believe in divorce except in abusive situations. That you try everything possible to make it work before just giving up. My W shared that one (in fact all of mine before MLC). I believe love is a verb, not a noun and it's something you do, not something you feel. The list goes on but you get the idea.

This is one of the things that has me very upset about my sitch. She had the same values for 25 years. I get she doesn't now BUT to me that is the hardest part for me as to me values don't change this much this fast unless there is something more going on. I really believe that at some point she will realize that what she is doing now is wrong because it goes against everything she had always believed for as long as I've known her. If she could give me some reasons why those changed other than "feelings" of unhappiness that would be different. Yes, I understand that trying to force my point of view on my W goes against my defin. this is why I haven't. I have given her space and support for almost a year now and haven't tried in a very long time to make her change her mind. I wish she would before it was too late but I have no control over that. Those are the qualities a man should possess.

25 years,
I am not angry at you. I'm sorry I over reacted but like I tried to explain my adrenaline levels are about to explode! I have had to borrow $ from my poor dad and mom, spend most of my time on D stuff instead of finding money, haven't slept well in days and had to bury the 14 year old family cat that was in pieces at the time and smelled about as bad as it looked!

I have had so many bad things being thrown my way in such a short time it is killing me (including some money issues that I'm trying to take care of WITH the W that I haven't posted about). Yes, I had a knee-jerk reaction but I'm as close to a nervous breakdown as I've ever been and a little bit sensitive. I am truly sorry if I offended you. I'm not angry at you...I WAS angry at the endless parade of S%$t that has been coming my way over the last 5-6 days, you just happened to be there and when my buttons were pushed. I'm not proud of that and it goes against what I feel is what a man should do (see last post) and again, I am sorry.

The worst part of this is I don't argue with my W like that. I never defend myself or tell her how she is "wrong" unless I lose it and I tell you guys when that happens. The most I've said to her about her filing was that I am disappointed that she refused to try MC and now is even refusing to try trial separation. If she had done either or both of those I wouldn't be so upset as I would feel she at least tried. That and the things about the petition itself (separate property and Primary custody). I guess what I do is defend my positions on here since I can't when I deal with her. It gets stuck in my gut all the things I want to say and this is a way to get it out!

Yep. I know that feeling well, my friend. We all do. Every one of us on this board know that feeling and can easily identify.

You used to be sure of yourself. Why aren't you now? Did your W surprise you? I suspect so. It's something that throws you for a loop. You straddle that ground between what *should* be and what *is* and it's...difficult.

I think you made your point. No need to revisit unless that helps you get those thoughts out and sort through them.

One thing that may help. Stop expecting something from her. You are expecting her to keep her word when she says something. Really? Stop doing that. It's not helping you.

Outside of that, what are your options? I see them as nothing to do with W. I see your options as strictly to do with you and your family (without W). No more. No less.

When you absorb that, I think things will become clearer. The anger will dissipate. Why? Because what is, is.

We've all felt the "it's unfair" or "why?" feelings. Seems normal. But there's no need to second guess your own actions. Trust me on that.

Understand? Less sanity?

Be careful what you wish for buddy. Seriously.

As for things to say. Why are they stuck? What are you going to lose or regret if you say them? Are they important? If so, say them. No harm at this point, but don't get sucked in. If not, then let them go Matt. The stress is not worth it and you have other things to focus on.

Drop the rope. Give yourself that gift...


AJ

Everyone,
Just had a knock down drag out with my W. She had her L call and tell her that my L is asking for full custody and she freaked out telling me that I was an evil person who wants to manipulate my D to hate her because I'm so upset about her leaving me and just like her dad said, I'm going to be horrible. She only wants what's right, only wants what's best but I want to hurt her, blah, blah, blah! I told her calmly over and over that it's between our lawyers and that spun her even more! She said her dad told her that she had to D even though that wasn't what she felt, HE convinced her that "nothing will change" and that he not only will pay for L but help her out with moving. IF SHE GOT A DIVORCE.

She wants me to do what she wants or nothing. If I don't agree to 50/50 HER WAY (7 days, 7 days) that means that she can't trust me. That I'm taking her D away and going to poison her. Of course I don't need to. She KNOWS my D will choose me because she hasn't been a mother for YEARS! She tells me I told her I was going to do just that (NEVER HAPPENED). When I told her I wanted my D to choose, she freaked out and ran away, never let me finish my sentence. She is awful in every way. She lies and that's OK, I never tell a single lie and she calls me the liar.

I should have talked to my D. I knew it. By the way she has signed a lease and is moving, not telling our D. I can't believe it. All I said was I wanted it in writing that she can't decide on her own where Our d permanent address is and she ran away screaming she knew "everyone was right"(2nd time running away). She wants me to agree that we will split custody and make certain that I "make" my D go half the time with her.
I am also needing to stop her from getting a car loan on our car that takes me off and I signed the loan she has now! First thing first, she has to stop doing that loan.

She has told me that she wants to leave our D with her "friends" when she has to go away for work, I don't want that as they are not good people. She has no earthly idea what she is going to do and she is moving so fast to do it!

If she had just not brought her father into our business this would be fine. Now, I will not sign anything that says ANYTHING but my D decides where she lives. Too bad as now she is going to make me sell the house and split the proceeds where before she was going to allow me to live here as it's paid for. I now know she can't be reasonable. If I don't say that I will only do 50/50 she will not be reasonable about anything! She needs to face that she did this she has to face the fact that her D isn't happy. She now is telling me how our D will pick me ONLY because she feels bad that I'll be left alone....what bull! She has been an awful mother and should face that but no, she wants to BLAME me if D is angry...HAS to be my fault. She even is saying that our older D is going to go with her! What crap. She is going to make this go longer than ever. Of course my L is flat fee, hers is hourly. Too bad for her dad.

First thing first, NO car loan. I won't say that because she will freak out if I do. I will need to call my L tomorrow and stop that from happening as it's NOT separate property!

I can't believe this is the same person that was so reasonable just a couple days before her father came to town. That was a week ago! Everything changed and she didn't even say a word! She won't even take responsibility for not telling about her stopping her pay and leaving me in charge of bill paying. Nothing is her fault. Nothing is wrong with anything she has EVER said or done, no matter how awful and wrong.

Look I have read on here over and over that they start to understand what they have done as they come out of MLC. That once that happens they start to understand how they hurt everyone, how THEIR actions were the ones that caused this. Please tell me that will happen. Please tell me that some day she will turn around and understand just what she has done. I can't stand the thought that she is going to keep going through life blaming everything and everyone BUT her for all the awful crap she has said and done and will say and do! I want so badly for that smug face she puts on when I tell her something and she doesn't want to believe it to be gone and for her to really get that she screwed everyone for no reason at all! Just doesn't seem right that she can hide from the truth and really believe it. It would make me feel better to KNOW really know, that she will have to face her part in this some day! I know that isn't a certainty. But right now when this stings so badly, after all I have had to put up with for so many years because of her own weak mind, that she will someday HAVE to face her demons!

Now, I must move quickly to get things in order that need to be in order. I need to stop ANY thoughts of her and let her do what she will and just talk to the lawyer and tell him what must happen. Look I want my D to have her mother in her life, I'm not out to get my wife and hurt my D. I just don't think the way she wants to do it will work and that she shouldn't think she will get HER way just because she thinks it's best when she hasn't thought about what was best for this family in a long time! My God, it's so hard to even talk to my W about this and it's her own guilt that is the problem. Her own fear that her D will choose me over her (I think that part of her must understand that D will choose me not only because she "feels sorry" as W is the one to leave, but because she hasn't had much to do with either D for a long time! If she had done anything to maybe stop this, ANYTHING. IF she had at least tried the separation I would have helped her. But now I will not. She has no values that match mine and what she doesn't seem to understand is that I will never allow her to hurt my D, no matter the cost to me in $'s!