Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Sex was great, then we married?

Thanks. For sure.

It's funny, I'm sure I'm not alone in this but I'm really pleasantly surprised how much just reading information from other people has helped, not the least of which being Michele's expertise.

I'm aware I could be completely wrong about everything; maybe that will come up in therapy, for example. But I think I'm more on the right track than not with it being a physiological issue more than an external factor such as my own behavior.

So we'll see. I love her terribly. One day, we'll both have more answers (hopefully sooner than later). Until then, I've got a lot of tools I'm using everyday, including this site, to make sure I don't contribute to making things any worse as best as I can.

I didn't say physical abuse and it doesn't have to have been a boyfriend.

Right... I know. I didn't say you did. I never know just exactly how specific or unspecific to get here. But I hope it answered the question regardless.

If not, I still don't think she's been abused outright, at least not more than any person? I don't know what to say. It's like, if you've ever been in an argument, it's abuse. So I don't know what to say, except to answer the question from my point of view, no, she hasn't been abused.

She still turns down sex though, I suppose. I'm not sure how long to wait before asking again; I wouldn't call it a time bomb, just a sensitive subject. She has given me an orgasm manually twice now since I brought the sex-starved stuff up a few weeks ago; both times were this week, and both times she initiated, but when I asked or tried to do anything to her "down there" she didn't really want me to.

Again, I don't know how specific to get---we were close, naked, kissing, touching, pretty much everything except anything having to do with her downstairs. I don't know if there's a problem there, or if she simply hasn't wanted to; frankly if it's an energy thing it seems to take a lot more work on her end to stimualte me manually. So I'm not sure, it's just hard to say. It's a weird place to be.

The R is cool, if not great, maybe the best it's been in months despite it not ever really being bad in any sense of the word. Still, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to ask again, tonight. I'm not going to, of course, but we'll see. Who knows? Maybe, just maybe, it will take care of itself on its own? For now though, the word of the day is still "patience."

Reading through your thread I see that you you have been reading Divorce Busting literature. Have you read The Sex Starved Marriage. The on line community is a great resource as are the books. But, I strongly urge you to speak to a divorce busting coach. Our coaches specialize in helping YOU with very specific attention to your problems. Call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

The answer is, you don't know the answer. That's fine.

And it may not be so, just a thought at reaching better understanding. If it is true, it's not something you can fix.

Some arguments are abusive, others aren't.

As Roberta asked, have you read the SSM book?

Do you know how her other Rs ended and why?

I don't know exactly how her other Rs ended or why. What everyone, including my W, has said about her past is she dated jerks or had too much drama, etc. I know one she spoke of once just wouldn't make time to see her. She was in love with him but he lived overseas and when he visited the states he wouldn't see her enough or something. I don't really know. All I know is she keeps a necklace and I found out from her old best friend that it's from that guy. When she breezes past a picture of another guy she used to date she'll say "oh, skip that" in a condescending way, she's mentioned he was a jerk too. I know she had sex with guys in places like the lake, or box seats at a hockey game, or in a car, or all kinds of places I never have and now it sounds like never will. She had spontaneous sex with guys who didn't love her, while I can't get her to want to have sex with me no matter what I do.


Yesterday she mentioned she's not really feeling any differently since she turned 50 two months ago. We haven't had sex then, but one of the things I mentioned earlier in this thread is that I thought it might be a major hormonal change or an emotional reaction to turning 50, possibly even depression or something that would make my action plan change from Michele's book.

It now sounds like none of that is the case. She was pretty deliberate about saying she doesn't feel like she's changed since turning 50, which leads me to now believe once again that she just plain doesn't want to have sex with me.

And that hurts.

She went to the pool Saturday, I cleaned the house and finished a commissioned painting. She was thrilled with the house cleaning. Thrilled. She said with a smile she felt guilty that she didn't do all of that stuff instead of me, but she liked it and it needed to get done-----it's also not like this is a one-off; I clean the house more than anyone else, only this time I also mopped the kitchen and hall, which I hadn't done in too long, probably 3 months. I also did the dishes, laundry, dusting, cleaned the fridge, just normal stuff that isn't out of the ordinary for me.

No progress on a counselor. I got her to say we can talk Tuesday night at dinner; that way at least now we're both prepared and see it coming. But I haven't mentioned sex since the first time and now I'm scared to, honestly. I'm afraid she'll say, again, that now I'm "pressuring" her. I don't know how you can be pressured to do anything unless it's something you don't want to do, so to me, that means she simply doesn't want to have sex with me. She still loves touching, holding hands, little kisses, hugs, all of that. She needs those things.

But it feels like we're roommates. I don't know if I should say that. I frankly don't know what to say; I'm terrified I'll say the wrong thing and no matter how good I am or how many things I'm not doing wrong that I've read other people doing wrong here (arguing about it, pressuring W or H to have sex outright and/or having sex because of that pressure, threatening to cheat or leave, actually having any kind of an affair, etc.), it's just going to be seen as me treating her like an object or something.

Truth is, I feel like the object. I am the roommate. I'm the bill-payer, the cleaning lady, the romantic neighbor, the chapperone, the cook, everything but the lover. And I don't know what to say to her tomorrow night. I sit in bed and I'm alone. It's exactly like Michele says, only my W doesn't respond to questions the same way the men and women in her book do. I'm trapped in a sexless marriage that's otherwise perfectly good, just completely sexless.

Is it not ok to feel selfish about wanting to make love with my wife? AM I a jerk for wanting to make love to the only person I promised to be with forever just 8 months ago?

Grey,

Okay, so let's jump to Tuesday and your scheduled time to talk. I really don't think the sex is the answer here, so that's my input on what not to bring up. To me, the glaring issue is that whenever you attempt to ask for answers, she dismisses you and either deliberately or as a consequence, dismisses your feelings about whatever changes have tilted your world upside down. Is that a fair observation?

My thoughts were be to start with whatever has introduced this change into your life and see where that goes. As a woman, it seems to me as though your sex life is the casualty of whatever is really the issue here.

BTW, if I were in your shoes, I'd be pretty pissed - and if I had to ask for something... anything... to give, it would be to request a reasonable time frame to discuss any elephants in the living room. There's a reason she's avoiding this "conflict".

Again, I seriously doubt it's about the sex.

Betsey

Thanks Betsey.

For me, it is about the sex. I mean, at least in a big way, if for no other reason than I have everything else I want.

And I think for her, that's what it feels like------she didn't want to have sex with me for a long time, then when it got to the point where I was so hurt that I said something about it, then it became a sex-only issue. I'm afraid she thinks I'm trying to use her V as a bargaining chip or something, like she owes it to me.

Of course, I've never said anything like that, nor let it slide when she says that, nor have I pressured her or have we had ANY sex since then (which would be considered pressured). I sure do read a lot here about people who do anyway. My wife just doesn't. It's hard to imagine she didn't feel pressured to have sex with her X's who she did actually have sex with more than me.

But it feels like a catch 22.

If I get angry about anything, even the slightest bit upset about anything, it's because I feel so rejected and alone and unwanted sexually.

So when I hear Michele talking about her husband getting upset with her any time she mentions about his driving or even just holding tightly onto the door frame, I can't help but think that is that unhealthy or unreasonable?

For example, is Michele's husband completely out of line? Does his getting upset at her doing that make him abusive?

Because here's the deal----I never get that upset. Part of me wants to, and yeah, I get upset about it sometimes the more it hurts but usually I just walk away and do something else until I forget, rather than persist or yell or fight about it. Am I abusive? She says I have an anger management problem, but if that's the case do I owe it to Michele to get her husband into anger management therapy because he's worse than me?

And how long do I wait in the meantime? Michele's book says to try a few weeks without sex just to see and focus on other things that may be the problem. Well, it's been, hell, I don't know anymore. Is 3 weeks enough? Because it's actually closer to two months now, and about one month since I initially even mentioned anything, all while being good, being patient, holding it in, paying the bills, rubbing her feet, listening, watching TV with her, everything it sounds like other guys do wrong.

So I guess my next goal has to be anger management classes? And if they say I don't actually have anger management issues, then what?

I don't know what to do. If I COULD be celibate, none of this would matter; everything would be as fine as Michele says it is for couples who are perfectly without sex. It would be weird; we both liked sex before we met, now it feels like it's just me while I'm haunted by the jewelry of her ex's and the lingere she wore for other men and never for me.

I don't know what to say to her tomorrow. Sex IS a problem----isn't it ok to talk about it? I know it should be, but it isn't, not for my W, at least not with me. So I don't know what to say. ANY time I say the wrong words, it doesn't matter what I meant---she stops me and says things like, "see!" I'm terrified of tomorrow. Why can't I just be happy and sexless?

Like, I read what you suggested to say, but I apologize, I don't know what to say still. Like, if something changed on my behalf before her birthday and her response was to only stop having sex with me and no other changes, then what? At what point do I get to ask why she wants to take my money, my time, hug and kiss me, but not ever have sex? I can't sleep in the bed next to her because that's the worst feeling, but I can't sleep in the other room because then I'm finally being an a-hole about something. I'm trapped.

"then when it got to the point where I was so hurt that I said something about it, then it became a sex-only issue. I'm afraid she thinks I'm trying to use her V as a bargaining chip or something, like she owes it to me. "

But the point is that to you it has become a "sex-only" issue. That's how you've been framing your problem. I mean it's your title of this post. Most women don't deal with the sex issue very well. Especially if they feel like the spouse is pressuring them to do something they don't want to . Most, not all.

Hi Grey,

Sorry to hear your troubles and that you find yourself here.

On the other hand, it's nice to know that mature women are appreciated as sexual beings, because often men our own age don't see us that way!

I'm just going to throw a few things out there that jumped out at me:

Going through menopause.
Cancer.

And maybe, just maybe---all this loving attention is a bit...too much?

I mean, it all sounds great, but in smaller doses.
It's almost as if you're trying TOO hard to please, which ends up coming off needy.

Which makes us feel we have to reciprocate---and who can measure up to the standard you have set? (Did you say "Bacon-wrapped Lobster tails, a clean house AND flowers? It's the Holy Grail.)

So I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, just that you sound really...enthusiastic!
Which is a good thing.

But remember, she is older, she's been through a lot. You've got that youthful exuberance, and she is probably a bit jaded.
I don't know what her past was like... but surely that's playing into this.

I'd say... chill out! Enjoy her, your time together, and try and figure out how much or little expression of your love is the "right" amount through trial and error.

And then give her a little breathing room to do some nice things for YOU.

(Then again, I'm a newbie.. but I think for me this might be a bit smothering. You sound like a great guy, though!)