Hi FY. I agree about not discussing custody issues. I didn't want to at all but the day after she went to see the L with her dad, she insisted we talk about it. That's the whole reason for losing my cool. Less than 2 weeks before, she was fine with the way things were. I shouldn't have let her drag me into that talk. It was almost midnight and I had been up since 6:00 am and had my D's grad, going out with her entire class and most of the parents after grad for late lunch and then to a party from 7:00 to just before she wanted to talk. I was so tired! Bad time to talk about custody.
I think she wanted to because she was hoping I would let her dad take our D away with him when he left a couple days later. That didn't work out well.
I really don't think there is an affair just yet. Can't be sure but don't believe so. There are times I start to think she is taking advantage of me and I guess those are the times I get most angry. I even think there has been times that she gets bugged because even she knows she is asking for a lot and she wants to be independent so resents having to ask for my help. Need to be careful there. Thanks FY.
Keep on asking questions...that is the first step in the right direction.
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I keep hearing I should detach and to me detach means just that, not getting pulled into allowing her to stop me from living my own life because she won't do her part (like my having to not go out and work out after work because she "can't" make it home in time to get either daughter or feed them). It means not allowing what she says or does get under my skin. Up until now, when she texts asking me to do that kind of thing, I have always done it. I have dropped my plans and gone and taken care of whatever it was she needed from me.
Detachment is unhitching your wagon from W. Detachment means this:
W is ornery, Matt's happy W is sad, Matt's happy W is spewing, Matt's calm W is crazymaking, Matt's happy W is happy, Matt's happy
Detachment does not mean uncaring. Detachment means one is not affected by the other person's words/actions/behaviors. You can act like a friendly neighbor to W.
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I have tried to be there for her when she needed my help with her family, again something I would normally do for my wife, not so much for a "friend". I have made calls for her when she has problems with her health insurance or to the airline when she went to vacation without me (even though I asked her to delay her trip by just a couple days and she said she would but changed her mind after I had made arrangements for meetings at work thinking she wasn't leaving yet. Later she said that her dad told her it was that day or never but she didn't tell me that at the time). You know, the kind of things one does for a S.
What does Matt really want here? W is not your wife for the moment. She's on Planet X right now. You don't have to fall all over the place to do things for W. Do some and allow W to handle stuff herself as she's an adult. As FY suggested, lean back a bit more and not do everything for her.
(well, if you want to go back 40 years, maybe if she had had a better childhood, she wouldn't have had a MLC lol)
It is not always the case that all MLCers have had a horrible childhood. My childhood was very good. My issue was my parents' divorce and I had to work through my own acceptance when MLC hit me. Some go through horrible, horrible chit in their childhood and they don't experience MLC at all. Goes to show you that MLC is an equal opportunity mind killer!
What I was asking was if I should keep pretending all was well.
I like what FY said earlier. It is not pretending, but rather doing what is the right thing for you and the family. Eventually people will see through W and come to their conclusions. You don't have to say a word about all of this. And as for "resisting"...just because I don't like what she is doing and complain about it doesn't mean I'm resisting.
You are. Go back and re-read your posts. I've read where you've argued or tried to talk your W into seeing your POV. That invalidates W feelings and thoughts. How you do this is: "Yes, I can see how you would view this", "I am sorry that you are feeling frustrated", "Are you saying...is that right?"
If you disagree, state your position and leave it at that. One piece of advice I would recommend is to leave out "I" statements for the MLCer will spew and blame you for your opinion. Just state the facts by stating the subject matter. No "I feel" or "I think" statements.
Do you see where I am going here? I think you are just starting to see that YOU do have an effect on the dynamics by removing yourself from W's mood swings. The how part is something you need to grasp by listening and learning what people do in their threads.
This whole process isn't easy at all! We all get that. With time and practice, you'll eventually get there like all the male LBS with a female MLCer.
Thanks Wonka. I have noticed that my W is sensitive to the way I phrase things. When she said all that about my not wanting her to be part of her D's life, she got angry at the way I said one sentence. I was tired and had lost my cool for the first time in a long time and I said "I would never keep my D away from you". This upset her and she told me that the way I phrased this proves I'm going to be horrible! You see, I said "my D" not "our D". I said "you", not "her mother". Of course she uses the same phrasing all the time ("my kids",etc.) but that's OK in her view. I didn't understand at the time how that could be such a big thing in her mind. Now I beginning to see.
Just last night she was having trouble ordering something off Amazon. I knew what the problem was and could have fixed it right away. Instead of telling her how to fix it, I waited until she asked for my help. In the past I probably would have offered to help her before she asked. Little thing but I do think it's part of the problem. I really don't think she likes needing my help as much as she does. She wants to be independent and it frustrates her when she has trouble doing something and needs me to help her.
Since she first became depressed and was unable to do so many things because she was sick, I took over and did them for her. Once I was in the habit of doing all those things, I just kept doing them even after she wasn't as sick and was capable of doing more herself. This robbed her of the satisfaction of doing them herself and it made her feel like I didn't think she could take care of herself or do her part. This is something I need to work on.
I have noticed that my W is sensitive to the way I phrase things....I didn't understand at the time how that could be such a big thing in her mind. Now I beginning to see.
^^^ Critically important, and not just with a MLC'er. My W always has been sensitive to phrasing, when MLC hit that sensitivity has been turned up to "11". Since working on how I phrase things, and a lot of communication skills in general, like active/empathetic listening, not only has things gone better with W, but those skills transfer to all of life. I am MUCH better at my human contact in my job, for example. Google active/empathetic listening, and also, controlling behaviors...eye opening, Matt. I was floored.
Quote:
I knew what the problem was and could have fixed it right away. Instead of telling her how to fix it, I waited until she asked for my help. In the past I probably would have offered to help her before she asked. Little thing but I do think it's part of the problem. I really don't think she likes needing my help as much as she does. She wants to be independent and it frustrates her when she has trouble doing something and needs me to help her.
Same for ME ^^^^ and W felt the same way. Good job on letting her try herself first, keep doing that.
Quote:
Once I was in the habit of doing all those things, I just kept doing them even after she wasn't as sick and was capable of doing more herself. This robbed her of the satisfaction of doing them herself and it made her feel like I didn't think she could take care of herself or do her part. This is something I need to work on.
^^^ same in my sitch, and in ME, that depression thing really sets off a dynamic, eh? Now do you see where her "you're a parent to me" feelings come from? This is the beginning of the self-work and really looking at the dude in the mirror. How would YOU feel if the roles were reversed? And I will tell you, letting people figure out, own and do their own stuff is freeing Matt, for you and all of your life.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks T2. Funny how all the things that I did to be supportive, to help get her through her depression and out the other side are the very things that end up causing more grief. It was so hard to watch someone I loved go deeper and deeper into their head. To hear them say how their not even sure they want to live anymore. Very scary. Since that time she has been so afraid if going back to that place and I need to realize that the things I did to try and help her at that time are the things that could send her right back.
We're all creatures of habit. Once we start doing things especially for as long as her bout with depression lasted (3 years), it's hard to just stop and go back to the way they were. As much as she fears "withdrawing" (that's how she phrases it), I too fear her going back. Will she make it out this time? Will she get so bad that she actually tries to end her life? Add to the mix how it effects the kids and it can really get confusing.
I really think that I spent so much time always needing to be aware of my W's moods when she was depressed has made it so much harder to stop and detach from her moods. I would wake up every day and the first thing I would do is gauge her mood that morning. Was she just down or was she in one of her really low moods where I had to worry about what she may do? Was she "up" enough that I could count on her being able to get the kids picked up from school or did I need to plan on getting them myself? There were many times the school would call and say no one came to pick them up and they couldn't reach my W. it usually turned out she had fallen asleep and didn't hear the phone but it was scary.
These are things I no longer need to worry about. In fact it's been 4 years since she was that bad. Time to stop letting myself harbor those fears. Time to let her and myself off the hook and leave all that in the past where it belongs!
I don't think anyone really knows what a terrible thing depression is until you have to live it have a loved one go through it. I never did until I had to live with it.
Here is a snippet of a chat I had with an amazing friend that cuts to the chase of this dynamic we are speaking of, from her experienced POV:
Quote:
Me:"He immediately tried to fix whatever the issue was " <--- that was what I started to do somewhere along the line, for whatever reason, maybe I allowed myself to become frustrated with the depression, and not understanding it very well.
Friend: I know why he did it. He needed to be in control. The thing is that she needs to know that you trust her capabilities. She has to feel that.
She has to know, without a doubt, that it wont go back to that again.
So that ^^^ is your long term goal. One of them. And only YOU can figure out how you are going to get there.
Last edited by TSquared2; 05/21/1406:24 PM.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks T2, I really think you hit it right on the head. Funny, at times I would think it seemed like my W wanted to, as she put it, "Be in control of every part of my life" simply because she wanted to prove she could do it. That she didn't "need" anyone, if not to me, to herself and the world. Starting to think she wants to prove it me and why it's important to her to do that! Now, I need to figure out how to show her I do think she not only can but would do great.
as she put it, "Be in control of every part of my life" simply because she wanted to prove she could do it.
Almost verbatim what my W said....and once I "got it" and backed off and learned the ancient art of STFU, let her run run with whatever and just worried about the kids, MY life got tons better.
For me, the key was to learn how to not judge, get all the pre-loaded society programs out of MY head and let God work on her.
And rein in my ego so understanding, compassion and forgiveness could heal me.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
