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Kdog, I know that you have struggled with alcohol before and I appreciate your inside view to the disease.

It's almost like WAW is self-sabotaging right now. Like she needs to come up with reasons to justify ending our relationship. She has been talking a lot recently (last 4-5 months) about feeling intense anger at her disease. She also mentioned feeling "trapped in her own mind". Horrific stuff.

I'm not trying to minimize our problems in the relationship, we had plenty of issues. But this seems deeper than just relationship issues as Mach suggested.

SHe's not working her program, hasn't attended an AA meeting in 7 months or been in therapy.

What is she doing Kdog? Is she setting herself up for a relapse by removing the positive influences in her life? I quit drinking when she did and I'm not an alcoholic so its not an issue for me. But the reasons she gave me for ending the R seemed to be a little bit of a reach (bringing up arguments from 2 years ago etc.) My gut tells me she needs distance from me so she can find a nice, quiet place to enjoy a glass of wine without having to hide it or explain herself to anyone.

Thoughts?

It's problematic that she is not going to meetings or doing anything regarding her issue. I did this as well at first, opting to go it alone without any support and keeping it hush hush. As I've stated before, unfortunately you can't help her along on this part.

It took my wife leaving for me to stop having a pity party and get out and GAL as a sober guy. I wanted everyone to feel sorry for me and hurt like I hurt prior to that. With that in mind, stop trying to mind read her. She doesn't even know what she needs, there's no way you can.

Cadet always posts here you have a gift, the gift of time. Use this gift of time wisely, and rather than obsessing about WAF that may or may not change her mind, find Thornton again. You and your fiance have both changed since you met and got engaged. Think back to who you were when you met, what initially attracted her to you. I bet you were a different person! Self confident? Assertive? And now what are you? Crying? Clingy? Blubbering mess? Don't worry, I was all of these things as well, and you can be in private. Put on your game face and look at yourself in the mirror. Part of AA that can be applicable to everyone is to take a fearless moral inventory, write down these things. Then address how you can improve on them with small attainable steps.

Change your attitude and change your life. Let's hear some specific goals, all about Thornton, that don't involve WAW or what she's doing or thinking. Focus on you. Goals! GO!

You got it!

Specific Goals (Small and attainable)
1. Continue with therapy to figure out what makes Thornton tick and how to make Thornton happy.
2. Continue with weekly Al-Anon meetings to learn about codependence, control and self care.
3. Volunteer at my church (I'll need to see what they offer in this regards)
4. Look into guitar lessons if the price is right
5. Stop by the Athletic club to inquire about tennis lessons, tournaments etc.
6. Attend one Meetup.com group within the next couple weeks (this one is going to be hard because I can be shy before getting to know people).

Those are great goals! Meetup.com was my saving grace, try some different groups and you'll find one you fit in with.

Now aside from that work on your 180's, what are the things you did wrong or want to change and what would a 180 be.

Example- I was controlling before by restricting w's discretionary purchases as money manager. 180- don't be controlling, figure out what 50% of joint bills are and let her decide what to do with the rest of her money. That's one example, what are your 180 areas?

I thought one of your goals was being a better father? What's an actionable step there? For example, have Father/daughter night on X night each week with quality time doing something she enjoys?

Thorton,

I am glad that you are working on yourself. Regardless of the outcome of your sitch, identifying and working on your own issues will make for your future be much brighter.

Something I am extremely experienced in dealing with is alcoholics. I wish I could NOT say that, however, my life has been filled with them. My father's side of the family, my X inlaws, my stepmother and her family...

Some got sober, some didn't.

One thing I learned is that most of the time, people don't just become alcoholics (at least severe alcoholics) because drinking gets out of control or simply "takes over".

Generally, they drink as a way to escape something deeper. It isn't necessarily a conscious decision, in fact, I think they learn that it makes them feel better through the casual act of drinking at the beginning.

My stepmother, drank more whenever she had to deal with her father.

Her father, who she shamefully admitted she hated. Her father, who she wished dead often. Her father, who she did not want to have to take care of when he got old and sick.

All thoughts and feelings that she felt extremely guilty about even though she has good reason to have them.

Her father, who sexually, physically, verbally, and emotionally abused all 6 of his children.

Drinking allowed her to avoid those feelings. It allowed her to function around him. It allowed her to NOT deal with her feelings about the real issues. It also played a large roll in what killed her at the age of 60.

My X inlaws, drank for similar reasons. And haven't stopped drinking for similar reasons.

My own family, began drinking for reasons that were not so horrific. Although the habit of drinking gets returned to with many of them, whenever something emotional that they do not want to deal with arises. Because it's easier than dealing with the actual emotions.

A dry drunk, doesn't drink. They are not sober though. And they are miserable. Initially it may be because they miss the drink. Because they are angry that something like that could have that much control over their lives instead of the other way around.

I believe it continues because they aren't, can't, or don't want to deal with whatever issues cause them to drink. And the real negative feelings come from those issues.

You haven't said much about your W's (GF's) past, her upbringing, etc, other than her relationship with her mother, so I have nothing to base this on besides my gut feeling and my own experience.

I think your W's issues are deeper than simply being a dry drunk. I think she would have continued the program that she started if she had been willing to dig deep. I think she ran from that because she doesn't want to look at what is underneath.

All of that being said, it doesn't change what you need to do. It doesn't change the fact that you need to work on yourself and your issues. Your W may or may not choose to work on hers. She may or may not choose to drink again.

I hope you will continue on your journey. I hope you will let Mach help you because there will be things that he (and others) say that you absolutely don't like. Mach likes you, he called you a bonehead...

(BTW Mach, that is MY name for people)

Be open. Be honest. And see where this path leads...

I agree with you and Mach.

She definitely has issues stemming from childhood, and into young adulthood.

Her family drinks as well during dinner times as a means to conversate. I don't believe they are alcoholics because they can share a bottle of wine and then stop. Unfortunately, she can't. She feels like a leper in her own family. They have had to stop drinking wine during dinner when she is there and she carries a lot of shame with that.

During the last 5-6 months, she has talked about feeling like a prisoner in her own mind, the world seems grey (depression?), a constant anger inside her and that she doesn't know if she loves ANYTHING. Of course there would be weeks in between when she would be happy and jovial. Excited about the future, our engagement, looking for a new home. And acting goofy like her old self.

When she would get down, I would try to talk her into getting treatment. She claimed AA doesn't work for her and she couldn't relate to all the old, toothless people that had been there for 30 years. I told her to research other avenues and to go to the ends of the earth to find something that would help her.

I think she eventually got tired of hearing that from me. She had surrendered to her disease and told me this is how she was going to be for the rest of her life. I called BS. She didn't like that. I was trying a different approach, tough love (perhaps a 180 for me) that didn't go as planned.

When she left me, she asked me if she got therapy, would it be too late for us to fix things. I think she was already planning on leaving me, getting therapy, and wanting to know if I would wait for her. I told her I didn't know because I was angry. I think that sealed the deal in her own mind. She had to leave me.

This has been a roller coaster for both of us. Good times doing things together as a family, and then bad times. I still struggle with how quickly this happened. I am doing my best trying to detach and understand that not even she knows wtf is going on with herself.

So I went to the gym today and then to my 2nd cousins graduation party. I did not feel like doing anything today except laying in bed. I'm glad I forced myself out.

I noticed it's hard to watch couples at these functions. I miss having my partner there with me. So I decided to act as if I was having a good time and made sure I participated in conversations.

Tonight I will probably rent a movie and relax a little bit.

Having a rough day today. I tried to GAL by going shopping for some clothes and then grocery shopping but everything reminded me of WAW because we frequented both stores when we were together.

My mind plays out the times we were together shopping and really goes into detail (The last time we were here, we bought brown rice etc.)

I'm really struggling with NC (it's been 2 weeks now). My mind tells me that she's moving on and enjoying her new life without Thornton. I know, mind reading.

I know this is not DB, I'm just being honest. I still miss her so much and having a hard time staying in my sandbox.

I hope as time passes, I will start to get better at this.

Thornton...do what I do...the "first" of EVERYTHING without WAW is brutally painful right? Well now you can safely go back in those stores now can't you? I did the same thing...had to drive by the place where our wedding reception was...forced myself to, let myself cry a bit, and then kick it in the ass and know I never have to drive by it the "first" time without her again. It works!

Thanks buddy. I'll remember that the next time I have to go shopping or whatever.

I find myself trying to avoid places that remind me of her but that's not always easy.

I guess I'm just concerned that I'll never get a second shot at this. Most everyone here has some type of contact with their WAW. Mine has gone radio silent. I'm having a hard time maintaining a PMA.

The book says to monitor results and adjust as necessary. I have nothing to monitor, or even try to monitor.