Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers W said its over - Said I can't change her mind

Came home today to find my W has removed all of her stuff an everything he brought into the M. Bedroom furniture, entertainment center, dishes and microwave and any other stuff that was hers. Also noticed she threw away some marriage stuff, the guestbooks and some pictures of us. It's obvious now she has moved all her stuff to one place, a place she will not tell me. I have no idea where she is living.

I was crushed when I got home. I had a "is this real life feeling." She seems to have completely moved on and checked out of R. Makes me unbelievably sad and frustrated. She never gave our M a chance to work or survive. She's making a life changing decision based on 2-3 months of ups and downs/good and bad.

Does she ever have to talk to me again? We currently have NC. How can I be the only one in this R that thinks about us all day?

Any vets out there?

This is just my personal view point. You are just five months into this M and she is pulling this stuff. I see it as a giant crimson red flag! If you were my son, I would plead with you to get out now, while you can. You don't want to have children with a woman like this.

I know you are hurt and embarrassed. Probably wondering what people think, etc. You can't help what others think and besides, it will pass. Sometimes people just show their true colors after they get M. I have know a couple of people this very thing happened. They moved forward and made a new life for themselves. I suggest you do the same.

Take care of yourself. Don't renew a lease or anything else, hoping the M will work out. Get away from her. It is all on her and if she should get her act together in a reasonable amount of time, she will know what to do. Just be thankful you found out before having children with her.

So sorry for your pain.

Just a quick comment for now,

You wrote:

She told me she was done trying in the relationship and getting nothing in return. she even told me if I moved back to Tennessee she would never talk to me again. She then told me when I got a job in TN that it was time for her to support me and be by my side like before. I moved back in June and we got married in Sept. We never had any issues until around the start of Nov. Jan. 5

why do you say "never had any issues", when ^^^this paragraph summarizes the time leading up to the marriage?

That one paragraph contains some BIG issues...did you ever try counseling?

What are YOU DOING differently, than before?

See, here's the "Secret" to this....if you want to call it that.

Your wife will Not return to the marriage, UNLESS SHE believes

marriage to you can be better/different than before.


So, what are you DOING (not saying) that is different?

Also, the grabbing her in the home so she could not leave AND THEN the bar incidents are red flags to me. You have a problem you have to work on.

And admitting it would help. Don't minimize it. It would freak me out and yes, I'd need A LOT of "space" if I had a h who literally tried to keep me in one place/boxed in.

Give her the space, big time.

More later...

After reading the whole thread, I mostly agree with this^^. The hesitation I feel is b/c I think you have a problem you are glossing over, and you'll probably have it again in your next R if you don't work on it.

You sound controlling and you DID get "physical" with her, at least twice. You don't have to slug a woman in the face to be abusive. If you use your strength to constrain her, it's NOT okay.

Having said that, I also feel she was not ready for marriage and the LAST THING ON EARTH YOU should do, is discuss having children with her.

BTW, why'd your first m end? Did you feel you learned anything from that divorce? If so, what?

Also, you MUST GAL, and that advice is both for you to move on AND ALSO the slight chance of her truly waking up and realizing you are a great catch

will only come about if she misses you. And a needy man without any social life of his own, is NOT an attractive man.

You need to be the man she fell in love with. Be a man only a fool would leave.

And do as Sandi suggests. NO local lease. If your w wants to reconnect with you, she knows how.

Back way off and DO NOT Inititate ANY R talks...

meanwhile, here are some "Rules" that Sandi gathered from MWD's books (=guidelines only, and Not all apply to each situation).


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives, because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes, where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is freeing.

She told me she was done trying in the relationship and getting nothing in return. she even told me if I moved back to Tennessee she would never talk to me again. She then told me when I got a job in TN that it was time for her to support me and be by my side like before. I moved back in June and we got married in Sept. We never had any issues until around the start of Nov. Jan. 5

why do you say "never had any issues", when ^^^this paragraph summarizes the time leading up to the marriage?

When I left TN to move to MO, I did so with her blessing. I would not have made the move without her 110% support. Our plan was for her to move there after completing her graduate degree in TN. She applied for one job in MO and did not get the position. She freaked out about not being able to move there without a job and then began telling me she was done with the relationship. her views would change almost daily between telling me to stay and then saying we would make it work. It was never a question in mind whether to move back to MO to be with her. It was only a matter of what area of work I would find.

That one paragraph contains some BIG issues...did you ever try counseling?
We have never been to counseling together. I have been twice by myself since our issues began Jan. 5. I asked her to go with me and she refused. her exact response, "You can go but I am good. I don't need any help. I know exactly what I'm supposed to do."

What are YOU DOING differently, than before?
I have started working out again and living a healthy lifestyle life I and her did before. We have NC. I have always prided myself on being the same person daily, having a consistent, PMA and always laughing. Not sure how she will see this. I was in a funk for a couple of months with her in the home and us around each other. Seems like its too little too late at this point.

Also, the grabbing her in the home so she could not leave AND THEN the bar incidents are red flags to me. You have a problem you have to work on.

And admitting it would help. Don't minimize it. It would freak me out and yes, I'd need A LOT of "space" if I had a h who literally tried to keep me in one place/boxed in.

I talked to MC about the two incidents and after some questions from her, she felt my insecurities about our R was the root of the issue. Up until this point I have always felt extremely confident in our R. That has never happened to me before. I have never done such a thing. It felt like an out of body experience. I know what I did was completely wrong, out of place and I failed my W as her protector. I am by no means running from my faults or minimizing the situation. I think to say I'm abusive is a little much IMO. I also understand my opinion doesn't really matter much at this time. My only ??? is, if she thought I was such a bad guy or abusive why did she come back after initially leaving? That is what I struggle with in those regards.

DR came in the mail Thursday and I have been reading over the last two days.

Thanks again for input.

After reading the whole thread, I mostly agree with this^^. The hesitation I feel is b/c I think you have a problem you are glossing over, and you'll probably have it again in your next R if you don't work on it.

You sound controlling and you DID get "physical" with her, at least twice. You don't have to slug a woman in the face to be abusive. If you use your strength to constrain her, it's NOT okay.

Having said that, I also feel she was not ready for marriage and the LAST THING ON EARTH YOU should do, is discuss having children with her.

As our M began in Sept., up until Jan we were trying to have kids. We were both all about it. She even had her cycle of days mapped out and our sex on those days was multiple times. We never had an issue with sex. As my MC told me. "I cant understand her all or nothing feelings."

BTW, why'd your first m end? Did you feel you learned anything from that divorce? If so, what?

My first M ended over relationship differences. She wanted kids, I didn't, she wanted to purchase a house and settle down, I didn't. She wanted to move closer to her family and become more permanent in our jobs, I didn't. In my profession people change jobs almost yearly, its just the nature of the business to keep moving up the ladder. As our marriage was ending I met my current W. I feel like this karma coming at me. I had checked out of my first M and my first W was asking to try different things to fix the M and I had no interest. Now the tables are practically turned and the situations reversed. I'm the one attempting to fix things and my current W has no desire and seems to be checked out completely.

We had been dating since college and had our fair share of issues then. We both cheated, broke off the relationship a few times and our differences. We both felt it was the next thing to do to get married and we moved forward. As my first W told me, we shouldn't have got M and we both knew it.

My first M I was selfish and only worried about me, not us. In my current M I was the selfless one and tried to maintain that aspect. I always thought of her first but struggled with that when my job beat me down. Its not an excuse but my job beat me and I lost my W because of it for two months, hopefully just not forever.

I have NC with her. We have talked once in 2 weeks. I have printed Sandi's rules and are following.

I have looked at some new places to live closer to my job but I feel a great sense of resentment, guilt, frustration, nervousness and anger toward my W. I just feel like these are issues that can be fixed but she is choosing to be close minded and put up a wall around her heart.

And why does she keep telling me, "I don't have a lawyer." And she has never told me or said the D word. Only gave me the ILYBNILY speak and told me she doesn't want to be with me and cant be with me. I'm not going to be the one who initiates the D if it comes to that. Is it necessary to get a lawyer? My first D we never had attorneys.

I also feel like if she didn't have one of her best friends to live with and to distract her from the situation things would be different. How will she miss me, if she has someone there to distract her?

After reading the whole thread, I mostly agree with this^^. The hesitation I feel is b/c I think you have a problem you are glossing over, and you'll probably have it again in your next R if you don't work on it.

You sound controlling and you DID get "physical" with her, at least twice. You don't have to slug a woman in the face to be abusive. If you use your strength to constrain her, it's NOT okay.

I think the one thing people would say about our R is we both never hand an issue doing things on our own. We never had arguments about one person doing things separately. She never tried to control my moves or wants, and I never did to her either. Our friends have made mention before to both of us about us having such a great attitudes about letting the other person come and go freely. In my first M I would tell my W what I was going to do. I learned quickly not to do that in my current M. I always ASKED my W if this was cool with her. We never had a problem with someone being controlling.

After reading the whole thread, I mostly agree with this^^. The hesitation I feel is b/c I think you have a problem you are glossing over, and you'll probably have it again in your next R if you don't work on it.

You sound controlling and you DID get "physical" with her, at least twice. You don't have to slug a woman in the face to be abusive. If you use your strength to constrain her, it's NOT okay.

I think the one thing people would say about our relationship is never person was controlling. Our friends have said to both of us one thing y'all do really well is allow each other to come and go and never have any jealousy over it. In my first M, I would tell my W what I was going to do. I never did this in my current M, I always ASKED if she was cool with it. We never had an issue of one of us trying to control the other person. My W is very good making plans. She would ask my schedule, look at hers and then make the plans for holidays and vacations. I never objected. I never had an issue with her making the plans and matte of fact I never asked to change any of them. In my first M, I would haven't been so willingly. I would like to think I learned from that mistake and I would venture to say my current W would say I was never controlling of her plans or wants.

Having some thoughts today as I drive. First I wish I would have found this site way back on Jan 5. This site is great place for me to vent and receive valuable feedback, for that I'm very thankful and praise God for everyone's help.

Hard for me to believe my W will ever change her mind and move back. She is extremely prideful and to move back home and move all her stuff back she would have "egg all over her face."

Is she really struggling with this right now like the board suggests WAW do?

If she didn't have anyone to run to, like her friend she has been staying with, I'm guessing that's where she still is, the Sitch would be way different or not happening at all.

We used to work at the same place before I moved to MO. If I still work at the same place as her this wouldn't be happening either I don't believe

At what point do I stand up for myself and tell people who she has been telling only parts of the story to paint me as the bad guy the entire story. It's not about sides with me. I have nothing to hide. It's not me versus her, it's our story to me.

Marriage is covenant not a contract. After becoming closer to God over the last couple years I really struggle with this. Marriage is scared and should be treated as such.

Marriages end over infedility, addictions, and financial issues, the top 3 reasons according to my research. We have none of these which is frustrating to me. Our issues can be overcome with time, effort and renewed sense of communication and commitment. To me this is the most frustrating in dealing with this mess.

"I filed for divorce. You can either go in the next couple of days and sign. If you
don't go sign then they will have to serve you work. It will be less embarassing if you just go sign.
You need to get tv water and electric out of my name. Please put my Taurus key in
mailbox and I will put your car key and apt key in there for you. At the end of the
week I will take my name off joint acct and stop using it."

Received this email from my W last night. What exactly should my next steps be? Need help from any and everyone????

I'm in a state of shock.