Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Afraid I have waited too long

everything else is off a bit.

I am giving you my opinion and my way of see things, its normal that you dont see things that way, I am not God anyway I will show you something else...


I have no children and my W has been paying her share of the bills and I am not funding her extra activities.

No problem, I havent said that you are, this part you are doing great.


Just recently though she expressed that she was running low on money which I took as I would have to assume more of a percentage of the bills. I am not overly opposed to that idea but would like her to ask me instead of me just offering or paying the bills then telling her I paid them.

Why you are not opposed to that idea? What are your reasons?
This is not about money, I will say there is a deeper thing in here...
Why would you like her to ask you?


Our agreement after the S was for her to pay all the bills and I would transfer my share to her. This has worked well for 9 months but now that she is running low she has missed a couple due dates and asked me to pay them which I did.

Very nice of you, she got out of the agreement...try to see the business side of this...if you have credit cards and you dont pay them in 2 months a collection agency will go for you...they take care of business they dont care about your feelings...however you can talk to them and reach an agreement, have you reached a new agreement with your W or you just prefer to wait and nothing happens? Again this is not about money, I believe they are deeper causes for this...


None of this has ruined our credit score but I am getting concerned as we move forward.

If you dont take care of this, there is a chance it will ruin your credit score... Business side again...could you be a little codependent? I dont know lets keep going...

My fear is she wants a D so we have to sell the house and she will have money again.
Hold on I dont get this part....you are affraid she will have money again?? Why that makes you scared? Maybe she will not depend on you then financially and move on with her life without including you in that life? Again a deeper cause here...

Some months back I explained that without fixing the house up some there probably wont be any "extra money" left over to pay off other marital debt. I could tell that was her plan back then by her reaction.

Did she told you that or you mind read her based on her reaction?
What is the main reason why you are not fixing the house? You have no money enough?

Problem is I love her and once it turns into a business situation taking all feeling out of it.
Do you think that now its not yet a business situation?
Does she says she is in love with you and you have a love relationship with her?
For what you say and again correct me if I am reading something different, the only interactions you both had are financial ones...

She will be very upset because I believe she thinks that my eyes aren't wide open to this and I will roll over because of my feelings for her.

?? Business its business and the sentimental relationship its something totally different....if your boss plans to fire you and you tell him you cant because I love you a lot, does that makes any difference? You are fired because numbers dont match thats it..

Unfortunately, although I love her dearly, when the time comes I think she wont know what hit her so to speak.

Is it money for you a form of controlling her feelings and the possible outcome of this?


Maybe that is what is keeping me from totally detaching because by nature I am a kind hearted person but don't p**s me off.
No problem in being a kind hearted person, I will define your situation more as manipulative.... What it helped me to be able to survive anywhere in the world was knowing that I had to work to make money, not thinking that my father will save my ass with money everytime I needed....


She says she is looking for a job daily. I have to believe her don't I?
You can trust her I had never told you not to trust her, but its not your job to trust that but to take care of yourself and let her face the consequences of her actions in life...even if you dont like it.

No good comes from calling her bluff on this. I know why she hasn't got a job but it is none of my business how she goes about her daily life.

At this point and again for what you said its your business, its costing you money the fact that she hasnt find a job...

I think you are not her father and its time for her to face her life , you cant save her this time, its extrictly necessary for her to live the life she is choosing even if it hurts you terribly...

ye,

Thanks again for replying. When I say you have things a bit off I was talking about kids and me paying for everything.

Everything else you said is pretty close to what's happening.

I would like her ask me to pay more because she thought I was controlling before and if I just went ahead and paid the bills without consulting her wouldn't that be controlling. I have asked her what her plans were in the past for paying bills and she has told me. Even though it would be my money I still want her to pay the bills and add what she could.

Of course I want her to get a job. She had a great one for 8 years and another one for 4 years. She switched companies about a yr ago an unfortunately that company went under. She could have gone back to the previous job but decided not to because the commute was too long. I said back then "hey a jobs a job". She knew I wasn't pleased but it was her life at this point so I had no control or input over that decision.

My IC says that I was a rescuer. I totally agree with that comment and yours about it is time for her to face her life and not to save her this time.

I am doing that in every aspect except for paying bills, I don't want to have to pay more but if I have to to keep the household afloat I don't see any way around it. I would love your suggestions on how to handle this.

No I am not afraid of her having money. I don't want to sell the house. I am just not sure I can afford it on my own.

She has told me "we will sell the house and pay off our bills and go our separate ways."

I responded "that is your choice and I understand your feelings"

I added "The house is only worth about what we owe on it so if we sell it we will still have the other debt to deal with by each paying our fair share. It can be done but it will collar us both with a high payment and not allow either of us to enjoy life for awhile. Even though this situation is bad it will only get worse."

She responded back "Im not going to stay M to you because we will be broke."

I said back " I am not asking you to. I just hope you understand everything that goes into a D and how many people never fully recover from it. I know that maybe everything will work out but what if it doesn't and then where are we. D but just as miserable as if we were still M. All I ask is that we truly know in our hearts that this is what is best and then take it from there."

This conversation took place last Aug.

I have money to fix up the house but my W feels that I am only fixing it up to throw it in her face because we have to leave it eventually. This not true but I do understand how and why see feels this way.

Yes the only interactions are financial beside some small talk. I try to give her space when we are both at home and most of the time she makes first contact.

I guess yes it is money that I am worried for her. I don't want her to end up on the street. I am not rich and have a slight fear that I will end up on the street, after working so hard along with my W to have a home and cars, if this is carried through to the end.

I don't feel like I am controlling her with my money. I would pay for all the bills because that is what a H does for his W if need be not because it controls the W but because a H is supposed to take care of his W in many different ways with money only being one of them. If the W doesn't like it she certainly has every right to get her own job and make her own money.

I understand there is no relationship right now but it is hard to picture me not helping her out even if we get D. If she ever needed it and asked for it. I do the same for friends.

I totally understand taking care of myself and thinking ME first. Things my W does now that would have upset previously now don't affect me as much because I know that I cant be upset with things I cant control.

I can ask her to get a job but all she has and would say is "I'm trying, every day I'm trying."

I do feel bad for the W in a way because while I have been improving myself and Dbing and GALing. She has just rolled along enjoying her freedom, which is her right, without worrying what will happen in the long term. I know we must live in the present but some forward thinking has to be there correct?

Thanks again, I am trying to understand and pick up what you are saying and use the advice that you are giving. I just not sure that I am explaining my sitch well enough or have a great enough understanding of what you trying to convey to me. Please know that I very much appreciate your help or anyone else's.

Question here.

ye21 brought this up to me so I need to understand it better,

Before our S, Before even the room mate speech, my W and I were lying bed and bickering a bit back and forth about what I cant recall. Anyway, W says you/we(TBH, I cant recall her exact words either) are so co-dependent. This struck a chord with me because way back in my college days a good female friend of mine told me, while we were discussing my woman troubles, you are co-dependent, stupid me I didn't ask what that meant because I didn't want to sound dumb.

When my W said it I also didn't ask, again not wanting to sound dumb. Boy, I really am regretting that right now.

Can someone give me the correct definition and an example maybe? I think there is a book out on the subject anyone know what the title is?

Try the book Co-Dependent No More. You can look up articles on co-dependency online. There are also support groups you can go to.

Can someone give me the correct definition and an example maybe? I think there is a book out on the subject anyone know what the title is?




Patterns and Characteristics of Codependence

These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation.
They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.

Denial Patterns:

I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well-being of others.
I lack empathy for the feelings and needs of others.
I label others with my negative traits.
I can take care of myself without any help from others.
I mask my pain in various ways such as anger, humor, or isolation.
I express negativity or aggression in indirect and passive ways.
I do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom I am attracted.

Low Self Esteem Patterns:

I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge what I think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.
I am embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.
I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
I constantly seek recognition that I think I deserve.
I have difficulty admitting that I made a mistake.
I need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and will even lie to look good.
I am unable to ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I perceive myself as superior to others.
I look to others to provide my sense of safety.
I have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.
I have trouble setting healthy priorities.

Compliance Patterns:

I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or anger.
I put aside my own interests in order to do what others want.
I am hypervigilant regarding the feelings of others and take on those feelings.
I am afraid to express my beliefs, opinions, and feelings when they differ from those of others.
I accept sexual attention when I want love.
I make decisions without regard to the consequences.
I give up my truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.

Control Patterns:

I believe most people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others what to think, do, or feel.
I freely offer advice and direction to others without being asked.
I become resentful when others decline my help or reject my advice.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I want to influence.
I use sexual attention to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be needed in order to have a relationship with others.
I demand that my needs be met by others.
I use charm and charisma to convince others of my capacity to be caring and compassionate.
I use blame and shame to emotionally exploit others.
I refuse to cooperate, compromise, or negotiate.
I adopt an attitude of indifference, helplessness, authority, or rage to manipulate outcomes.
I use terms of recovery in an attempt to control the behavior of others.
I pretend to agree with others to get what I want.

Avoidance Patterns:

I act in ways that invite others to reject, shame, or express anger toward me.
I judge harshly what others think, say, or do.
I avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a means of maintaining distance.
I allow my addictions to people, places, and things to distract me from achieving intimacy in relationships.
I use indirect and evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.
I diminish my capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use all the tools of recovery.
I suppress my feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.
I pull people toward me, but when they get close, I push them away.
I refuse to give up my self-will to avoid surrendering to a power that is greater than myself.
I believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.
I withhold expressions of appreciation.

Thanks ye,

Yes about half those things are or were me. When you look at it in print like this it really makes an impression, Wow!!

I will say I have come long way on a lot of the above but I have a ways to go that is for sure.

unbidden, I will look for that book thanks!!

Pondering a thought here.

I always used to tell my W how beautiful she looked even if she was all sweaty and a mess because I truly thought so. She would catch me looking at her and say "what" and I would say "I'm just looking at you." That's all. Text during the day to say 'I love you" things like that you get the picture.

Since the S I haven't done any of these things for obvious reasons. Well, I did tell her She was looking great after continuing to lose weight and toning up this was back in Sept. I haven't said anything in a long time.

Since I moved back in Dec I have watched what I said in regards to appearance and such so it didn't look like I was sucking up. This was one of the 180's I was trying because my W always thought I was sucking up or clingy when in reality I meant it all the time and she didn't think highly of herself so she was projecting those feelings about herself on to me.

Now 9 months in she has continued to lose weight and all but I still haven't said anything to her. I have been kind and said nice things about how she pays bills and other things just nothing about her appearance.

She did tell me back in October that I didn't do the little romantic things correctly holding hands, hugging enough, I thought I did these enough but validated her feelings.

She is feeling much better about herself these days regarding her appearance she is getting tons of compliments from everyone, just not me.

It is time to think about a 180 on my 180 and compliment her on her hard work and determination to lose the weight she has and that she does look really good?

Im torn between doing it and not because on one hand she probably will be repulsed that a compliment of this nature is coming from me, but on the other hand, maybe she is thinking it is "more of the same" from me since she commented that I didn't do it enough in the past.

I wouldn't be saying it everyday or anything like that just maybe once every couple weeks if that. I was always very supportive of her wants to lose weight and in fact, participated in losing weight with her so we are both looking better she just has more time on her hands then I do to go the gym and really put forth a full effort because she is not working. Although, I do manage to still get there somewhat regular.



Thoughts?

Nit, I struggle with this too sometimes. But I think doing this is pursuing and would receive a negative reaction in my sitch. You may have a better sitch but unless you can casually say it in a conversation so it doesn't sound like pursuing I don't know that it could help you.

Thanks Bunches,

That is just it. I don't have a good feel for my sitch. How bad it is or if any baby step have been made. Just DBing as well as I can for the present time.

Nit84 imho if I was in your shoes and I am in my own shoes I will do something for me....you recognize that you might have some signs of codependency...why dont you start taking care of yourself and go to meetings? Read the book or go to alanon meetings? Best thing sometimes its to surrender and recognize we cant do some things without help... I am sure it will help you see things in a different way......
My W left me and its hard and sad, I cant make her come back but I can choose a different therapist, I can exercise, I can go to alanon meetings and all that one day will help me change things I dont like from me...in my next relationship with her or somebody else I will always be able to say...this time I did my homework so at least the issues I had they are not there anymore...