Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers living with WAW who hasn't walked yet (2)

Starsky,

I think it would be good for you to mosey over to Tarheel's thread as he's now thinking about sending an email to his W who is still in the throes of her A and seem cannot end it. Your experience in putting in strong boundaries would be very helpful to Tarheel. Can you please help him out?

Sorry for the hijack folks...

Thanks unbidden.
Please do not ever worry about being "too harsh" with me.

I am getting a very thick skin. Hopefully this all resolves one way or another before it gets too thick.

But also, I know I have some blind spots, and I want to hear different perspectives on issues.

Unbidden, it really ALL depends on what stage Zew is in, and what his goal is at this point. If there was no infidelity here, and his wife was "just" a WAW, I would tend to agree with you. But a continued, deceitful affair -- and then you fold in her financial/debt issues?

I think the strong boundaries and even him "controlling" the finances are NEEDED here. Acknowledging that short term, it may push her away a bit. I think longer-term she will respect it (which is attractive), and he will also be protecting himself (and his children) financially, so I consider that the "greater good" here I guess.


Starsky

When I told you that a WAW is like a rebellious child, it didn't mean you had to teach with pictures.

I thought you did a good job. The only suggestion I have would be prepared for her detours next time. She clearly refuses to deal with her own financial disasters and will "use" all her complaints against you to distract from the original topic.

LOL. OK, maybe the picture was over the top.


She freaked - "That's a contract - you want a contract." It was just the text (more or less as previously posted) with a list of allowable and non-allowable expenses.

And I was thinking to myself, given how you've handled the marriage contract, what good would another contract be.

Good point about detours.

We'll see if she comes up with anything by tomorrow.
If she's unwilling to share income info, or anything else, I'm considering just reimbursing her for 50% of what I consider to be an allowable expense, going line by line down her CC statement. I'll continue to pay house/utilities myself. The rest of her CC can rot.

my $0.02:
One of my biggest frustrations in my marriage was the fact that my wife and I were not on the same page financially. She was what I would call financially irresponsible.

When we were discussing having our first child, my wife decided she wanted to take 6 months off of work after giving birth. I told her that if she wanted to do that, I wanted to have 6 months worth of expenses saved up as a buffer to things like unexpected medical expenses, me getting laid off, etc. She agreed and we set up a plan to deposit a set amount of money into a savings account every pay check. As time went on, she tried to use that money to buy things that she wanted that she couldn't immediately afford. This dynamic of her trying to spend the money that we had saved for an expressed purpose and me resisting that and trying to stick to the plan was a major cause for friction between us.

The reason I am saying all of this is that you need to be careful with the advice here to not judge. Obviously you don't judge her worth as a person but you MUST judge whether she is someone you can see yourself trusting as an equal partner and steward of your combined finances and you MUST judge her in this way based on YOUR values (or you need to change your values). If you don't/can't trust her, this will always be a source of conflict between you two.

What does she have to do to make you feel you can trust her with your shared finances? How much are you willing to compromise on your short term and long term financial goals/beliefs?

Good questions, worthy of more than quick thought.

It was a few years ago that she started running up cards that I didn't know about.
1) She didn't come to me for money, she just took out CC debt on her own.
2) She didn't come to me when the CC's went to creditors.
3) She went to court instead of coming to me.

These things really bother me, in that I don't understand why she never came to me. Pride? Fear of my disappointment? Fear of admitting failure? Guilt that she let a little thing turn into a big thing?

Was it her issue? Or was I so unapproachable? (my issue)
Until I understand this, I would never feel comfortable with unbounded access. And given that it happened twice that I know of (and I suspect a third), it's repeat behavior.

And am I a little anal with money? Well yes, because there's a big age gap between me and the kids. Her getting a job again changes that equation though. But as sole earner, when the 6 month emergency fund turns into a 3 month fund, I get antsy. And I've explained to her that this drives my behavior.


Now a joint account for expenses - that I can do. I'm happy to do that as a way to rebuild trust, and for her to gain financial knowledge. And as she starts dealing with the complexities of her commission based income and expenses, gaining experience, and paying her own CC bills, I'm sure I'll loosen up.

[and again, maybe I'm a nice guy for wanting to help her through this to a place where we're both comfortable, or maybe that makes me a condescending, controlling SOB that should just MYOB. Maybe it's NOT my job to bring her through this unless she wants to.]

There's a huge difference in our financial experience. She sees any offer of help as a commentary on her ability.

So even if she comes back, I've got some challenges ahead. A marathon to be sure.

I need a plan for tomorrow, since she owes me a financial proposal.

I expect she'll blow it off.
And I suppose that allows me to say that her refusal to take the matter seriously is why I don't feel comfortable having her jointly on my account.

I could ask her about this stuff, VVVV, and say that is why don't feel comfortable having her jointly on my account.

I'm sure that no matter what, she will attempt to detour making me the bad guy. I'll just have to shut that down and refocus on the fact that she doesn't take finances seriously enough to put the whole household at risk.

And that I'm willing to work towards joint access if she can show continued financial responsibility over time.

And that in the absence of any transparency on her part, I will reimburse her for 50% of reasonable family expenses on her CC.

If she fails to be transparent, why would you reimburse her 50% on CC?

I don't think she will come up with any plan b/c she doesn't know how and doesn't intend to lean. So just b/c she stormed out of your first proposal, why redo it? She's not going to agree to anything except be added to your current checking account. If you believe your proposal is the best plan for your family, then tell her it that or nothing.

Thanks Sandi,

Of course, this is wearing me down a bit and I'm beginning to miss the obvious.

You know, as much as she likes to state that I always had everything my way, I'm beginning to realize that I deferred to her an awful lot, and we were both too quiet about it.

I tell ya, D is one heck of a way to learn about M.