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and whats the origin of his idea that its a "school"

wasnt that some little lie you told to have it present better than a woman's church group?

the point is, the habits you create now, being "truth based" will be the foundation of your relationship. So, if you're ok with white lies and half truths and misrepresentations, then thats what you'll get.

but i suppose this is similar to his "truth based" definition of his relationship with the OW.

No. I clarified it with him at least a month ago. When he seemed interested. This is a women's group. We call it school. It has nothing to do with church.

long emotional day.... we went around in circles too. He got teary eyed. Said that he is sexually needing, and is desperate for touch. We really need to get out business stuff done... this is taking such a toll on us. He reinstated his desire to be with me physically but feared that we would be fighting now.. (as we are). I said it doesn't matter right now, that we are taking relationship off the table. He tried different angles to see where I stood and even made comments that I have moved on and didn't love him anymore, etc. Making sure that I knew that a major real estate agent was interested, etc. I said that I loved him and always will. This kind of convo, went on for a few hours. Me, pointing out how maintaining form of a relationship could have helped, etc. Him, insisting that he doesn't want it to appear that he is only interested in sex, etc and didn't want to appear that he screwed me out of fairness, etc. Insisting that he still "doesn't know" his answer/feeling, etc. But, he still has feelings/attraction to me, etc.

We watched an elderly couple working together in front of us. I told him, I still wanted that. He said he knew that I did and he thought we were doing that.

He wants to get along. It is important. He got teary eyed and says that He wants me in his life forever.

We then went to the bank.

Later,

I told him ways of how I now appreciated our 20 year history, and the efforts he made to share his experiences with me/dd. He got teary eyed. This meant a lot to him. I told him that I have "loved" him unconditionally and that I wanted him to know that I have always wanted him, never without a doubt. (Because he has been doubting).

I told him that I know what I want. I want the commitment of that old married couple we saw today. That I was not about the money, that he is making this into, and causing hurt, fights, etc. He feels we will overcome these fights and then go forward from there. Other couples get back together.. he feels we can too.

We ended on a positive, based on my new communication skills, he commented. He calls himself difficult and stubborn. I stated that I am a work in progress and that I am still not done. How its been difficult to look at myself and despite all the efforts of this board how stubborn I have been. He says he has noticed a better me.

I may have divulged a little much... but overall feel good that I still held my cards along with dignity & respect. I told him I know what I want and that I want an unconditional love. That I deserve it too. I am not asking him out of his comfort zone. I just know what I want.

...there is more, just hard to remember it all.

I really see a confused person.


~~~~~~~~~~~

Im really looking forward to my weekend away... time away, knowledge and more self value... will be awesome!!!

I see that he wants assurances from me despite his "i dunno" position.

I didn't "say" this... but have come to realize that My position is that I love/want him, but If he is incapable of meeting me in a place where we can compromise and do the work, then I am not interested. Inspite of all my love in the world.

I had also told him that I would have been happy in a life without money, as long as we were still able to love and make love, etc. That I would have even been happy being old and miserable together, like that old couple... just being together.. That I was not letting money dictate my feelings. He pointed out how that real estate agent is very wealthy but very lonely. I said, if I were her and someone offered me her financial position or true love. I know what I would pick.

He also mentioned how stupid the whole OW thing was...but, did not want to talk about it... I said neither do I!

oh... and he is really seeking an epiphany to help him understand what he wants. He wants direction, and happiness desperately.

He questioned if he was having a mid-life crisis... I just nodded.

He is extremely lonely. He is sexually frustrated, and missing physical touch.

He doesn't know what to do. He is hoping that the funds we took out of the company today (back wages), will help him... he wants to buy a new sea-doo.

I don't want someone who doesn't "KNOW" what they want...ME!! I find this such an insult. I know what I want and who I want and why! I don't understand how this is so confusing to him, when he says that he loves me, knows the value of our history, intimacy, etc. Saying that he will never be able to replace me... wtf? where is the problem??

He asked if I think that I will find love easily. I said that I don't think so.

my position: that I am not going to invest time in a relationship that he "doesn't know" and isn't willing to act on his feelings

I said... actions speak louder than words, and that he is showing his true colours right now.

also, blah blah blah... taking 2 years, dating others, crossing paths missing each other, bad timing... etc I asked if thats what he wants, for us to move forward and try others (he said no).... under my breath I said "I'm not waiting"... he asked what? I said never mind. He repeated "not waiting"....

I also stated don't do/say things to appease me... he questioned it... I recalled our hangout hug time at my place a few weekends ago... He said, no.. that he liked it too.. very much. And then also pointed out that his "coffee times" are about his requirements. He is trying to create happy "nice" moments.

I have come to realize too that he is basing his decision on money and his head. He is letting my responses and actions and money dictate how he feels about me. Lets suggest that he gets everything and p!sses me off in the end. Will he be happy sitting with his wallet? IF I lose my legs, will he still love me??? Do feelings matter? If I have a bf, or if I love him back. He won't commit to his feeling.

I fear that my questions/concerns affect our relationship (business & personal). If I ask business questions that he doesn't like, or feels I should already know, or is irritable/busy, etc ... he holds on to it and says we are "arguing/fighting". He fears that our arguing/fighting is unacceptable and holds "me" accountable. I fear that having a personal or business disagreement gets added to the list of "bad things MM has done" (yes, there is an actual list!!!). I fear that I am not safe. Safe in the sense of loved unconditionally (whether we disagree on a work/personal issue or not). I don't want a relationship where I fear that if I don't follow suit, or if we argue that our relationship is at risk.(more pretzelling).

Thought I'd read up on this sitch again and, yep, just as I thought. You haven't changed at all.

Despite all of the people who have posted to you, you still haven't shown any patience, push the relationship, continue to make it all about you (even though you continually argue to everyone that you understand it's about him, but don't have the patience to "wait" for him) and mindread alot.

MLC can last up to 7 years or more if the things aren't figured out by the MLCer on their own with patience and time. You can't seem to respect that about his timeline.

"I said... actions speak louder than words, and that he is showing his true colours right now.

also, blah blah blah... taking 2 years, dating others, crossing paths missing each other, bad timing... etc I asked if thats what he wants, for us to move forward and try others (he said no).... under my breath I said "I'm not waiting"... he asked what? I said never mind. He repeated "not waiting"...."

Pure manipulation and control.

Oh, but wait, you're going to come back and argue that it's not. Back to silent mode.

Hi Gabby, I agree! We do have a long way to go before its possible for it to work. He keeps trying to have these convo's that lead no where.... because he wants the insurance policy.

Bond, Im not going to disagree with you. I am stating that I have changed. I understand his MLC... He can have it. I don't know if I have the patience to "wait". In the meantime, I am leaving him alone, being patient ... at a distance. I wasn't pushing, he volunteered his comments. I see how you view my "I'm not waiting" as control. I did not say it for him to hear or to control HIM, its about me. I do respect his timeline & the position that he wants to "wait" until we get our finances in order. I said & agreed to it. Now that I have, he flipped his switch! He feels that I don't love him and have no desire for him, so whats the difference (in his mind). I reassured him as best I could without losing myself in the convo. He is all over the map!

He wants assurances.... while he "doesn't know". I assured that I loved him, always will, that I am not pressuring him out of his confusion, ^^^ this is not control!

Can someone please explain to me? How can he say he loves me, is attracted to me, misses our life, considers a future with me (marriage), can't replace me... but yet "don't know"? ..... What doesn't he know?