Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Unlearning conflict avoidance - 11

Now what else are you going to do to increase better communications with your W?

That is the 64000$ question, Mr. Bond. Beyond physically being nearby, and making conversation when I see her, I don't know. She doesn't ask me about my day - though she knows I did various things - so it feels difficult. Sometimes she'll open a bit more at dinner when d16 is present and talk about her day or some issue.

I think communication is best spoken, but perhaps email (I'll be in the States all of May) can be exploited somehow?

One question is what to talk about, another is when (only at meals? as she is mostly upstairs, though sometimes in the garden, it feels like I am deliberately having to approach her to talk when I go up or out, and so it seems less easy and natural). I do try to ask her about her day, though she is mostly not forthcoming in reply.

Are speech and email the only forms of communication I should use? I've prepped the door that needs repainting, I could scrape an outbuilding wall in preparation for repainting, I made a smoked salmon and broccoli quiche the other day. Flowers got questioned when I sent them last year ("why did you send these?"). My Virginia Woolf's Garden (her literary hero, and my W loves gardening) book present is languishing on the bookshelf. I let her take the car when she asks.

Perhaps I need to set boundaries more, though opportunities have not recently arisen?

Luke

making smalltalk around someone who makes you uncomfortable is unnerving. as an introvert, i struggle making smalltalk.

if you can easily talk to strangers, or acquaintances at work, i'd look at what topics you choose with them, or what feelings/expectations you have in those conversations and then try to apply that to her. block out the fact she's your W and there's issues in your R.

conversations don't need a goal or outcome, sometimes its just empty words about nothing.

years ago i watched a short documentary about sports and baseball. the gist of this is that sports allow people to make connections and conversation when the individuals have nothing else in common. Two complete strangers can sit at a bar and spend hours talking about sports, and teams, and player statistics, and what happened last season and whats going to happen next season. they can get emotional about it, they can argue about it. and there is an endless supply of information, none of it is taken personal.

find her "sport", something that has endless topics, that she's passionate about, that's unrelated to your R, and gather information about it. if its flowers and gardening, try that. maybe home renovations, cooking. forget about making the conversation have a goal - dont think of it as a method to make a connection with her or convince her of anything. just let it be an end to itself.

Just start talking about something...anything. It could be a sentence, it could be a story, whatever, just get used to talking to her without fear. My W clammed up so much that she stopped talking to me for 3 years at the beginning of my sitch. Your W at least acknowledges you. AND yet you call it disrespectful.

Why not get on the internet and find some cheesy silly jokes to remember. You both can laugh at the ridiculousness and it might settle down your nerves.

I have had the same issue with approaching women or talking with people. I felt I needed to be charming or serious or have a point to the conversation. I don't think so anymore. I have had more enjoyable conversations about the most random of topics than things I thought were good topics. The joke thing has worked for me with just about anyone I talk with.

Being with your W as long as you have you can probably think of something she likes. Ask her questions about current events that are in the news, then follow up with questions about what she said. I find it easier to ask questions and listen than to talk. Becoming a better listener and using my heart instead of my ears has helped me become better at conversations.

You seem to do a lot of traveling, I am sure you could find things to talk about. Airline food, flight delays, turbulence. I also make up ridiculous stories and make obvious lies about things just to be funny and have something to talk about. Upon leaving or returning from a flight I might talk about how "I am nervous to fly again because last time I had to take the controls while the pilot used the bathroom. He got the kosher meal, but it must not have been any good. Those new 777s are a little complicated, but nothing for good ol' me to figure out. With a little help from Google I had us on approach to JFK in no time."

Seriously, try the stupid joke. For example.. "What did the fish say when he swam into the wall? Dam!" No need to be embarrassed if it doesn't work, after all the joke is supposed to be bad in the first place. Break the ice and start talking.

Luke, how would the Essential Experience workshop have been for you if you had Not disclosed anything about yourself?

Allow me to answer....it would have been a failure. But you risked and it paid off.

Personally, I am an extrovert and am far more terrified of being Unknown or misunderstood, than having a secret or two revealed or shared.

Often, not always but often, a friend shares a secret of mine to another friend, b/c they BOTH want to help ME. And they do.

I feel enriched by the friendships and my siblings are a huge help too, although they live back east.

I wish the same for you. But to think you could feel close, known, or understood and loved by someone you never reveal yourself to, is a much bigger risk imo.

In fact it might be part of why you and your w feel so distant. You don't share much with her and she shares little with you.

Your thoughts? Also are you coming out here next month? If so, let me know

Ken, Bond, gogofo, MLC - thanks. W has been nice recently, even asking about my upcoming trip to Budapest, and so making conversation has been easier. I took your suggestions and brought up how we may be starting to talk to dolphins, some crazy dreams I had, the maker of my d16's violin, etc.

Bond - I think that is the first time I ever heard about your sitch. 3 years of no talk - that would drive me crazy - I trust things have improved?

gogo - thanks for the jokes. I'll post one from my d16.

ken - yes, just talking, without a particular goal, seems a good strategy.

MLC - yes, I should be there all of May. I'll text you when I have the dates and am available.

At Essential Experience I made the conscious decision to trust and be open, and it was really cathartic as a result. Talking to an EE graduate before going made this possible (I really liked and trusted him) and the environment of the workshop helps too (go Inside Team!). It was so good to hear about peoples' innermost selves, and to be received as one is there.

One thing that has made me a bit leery of revealing myself is being taken for strange or weird sometimes, along with the negative remarks that entails. My W has said as much, as have coworkers and my MIL, but I think it is useful and fun to flip thoughts, or assume crazy things and see where they lead, or to poke around in not mainstream areas. It isn't always pleasant, of course, and often lonely, but I feel it is a strength and enriches life.

That is why I thought that a similarly in her head woman might understand me well, seeing the world via her own special mental filter.

Yes, not sharing with W is not an intimacy builder. I just don't want to get put down again for doing so.

My French friend invited me to go running again, but I couldn't. I will see him hopefully next weekend for a long one, and hopefully get to learn more about the real him (he has a son with Asperger's, has dad had Asperger's, and he thinks he did as a kid too, but now feels that he manages to hide it well, and so is not his real self; he also has marriage problems).

Friends are great (thanks again, Bond, for your advice to get nearer to people, rather than avoiding them!).

Gtg - Luke (travel starts tomorrow, so patchily online only)

Why do witches hate twins? Because they can't tell which is which.

Luke

I handed down one of my favorite jokes to my D recently, I'm proud to say she's been using it on her friends. and now may be a good time to share with you.

"you can pick your friends,
and you can pick your nose,
but you cant pick your friends nose."

Hi Ken,

haha - I'll use that on my d16 and s20, who are now home.

What can you use to fix a broken pizza? Tomato paste...

I am back from my week long business trip, s20 is now home for a few weeks also.

Just signed papers to get facade done, which seems a step in the direction of freedom.

Luke