Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers melissa

Lol, you guys are just really funny, and I totally appreciate the humor today.

I promise to come back and address the fish thing. It's disturbing, and I need a night's sleep to mull over what I'm thinking so I can write about it.

But in the vein of funny, I want to tell you something here that i hope makes you laugh. So today is my now D17's birthday. Yep, the 17th anniversary-exactly-of the day she was born. I was present, and so was her dad. So last week, I asked him what we were going to do to celebrate. He said, "it's my night to have her, so why don't we meet for dinner and give her presents? Let's choose a place that she likes where they'll bring her dessert and sing to her." We agree to meet at Red Robin...

So, I tried calling him all day and finally got him when he was en route to picking her up. I launched right in: " I have a chiro appt at 5:15, and it won't take long. I realize you are picking her up now (4:30), so why don't you go to my house, pick up her meds and have a glass of wine and then we'll meet at Red Robin?" He says, very confused, "what the hell are you talking about? I have pork chops marinating and we have plans for Friday." I say "WTF?" He says, "I told you I'm going to DC tomorrow, and since I don't get back until Thursday night-her birthday-I figured we'd do it Friday." I say "WTF? Hr birthday is today! WTF?????"

So we launch plan B. Which is my plan. We sit down, and he's kind of sheepish and I say, "K, let me give you something to remember. D20's birthday is 2/22 and D17's is 3/3. Think twos and threes." He starts kinda laughing and said, "uh, actually, i always think that D20's birthday is 2/24 and D17's is 3/7. The only reason I said 3/6 is because I knew 3/7 was wrong, so I guessed. Obviously wrong." I could only stare at him. I cannot believe he has had their birthdays all wrong all along. Color me speechless. The two leading ladies in his life, and he argues their date of birth with me. The one who gave birth to them. WTF.

Dinner was good, and it's good to be home watching While You Were Sleeping. One of my all time favorite movies.

Now back to your program. I'll be back tomorrow with more organized thoughts. It's probably good for you that I wait.

Betsey

Oh, before anyone thinks I am MUCH further along than I actually am, let me clarify:



I didn't mean that I am open to dating someone right now. I mean that I am open to the thought that there might be some possibility that someday I will once again maaayyyybe potentially possibly be able to have some sort of R with a man. Until then, I have my one cat, and that will have to do. (And I promise to try to keep the poop in his litter box and not throw it in H's sandbox.)

Betsey, wow. Just wow. I mean, my H locked us out of the house on numerous occasions, left a pot on the stove and the stove on all night long (I sure hope he has a fire alarm in his D Pad), left the back door open (not just unlocked, but actually open) all night, and even once went to the airport having only put a ticket on a 24 hour hold (two months before) rather than actually buying it, to name just a few, but to forget your kid's birthday? That's pretty bad.

Luckily, I am assuming your D17 didn't know anything about it?

Oh, Mr. Wonderful.

I guess you will have to start reminding him a few months in advance next year, and make sure you add the date when you reference your D's birthdays.

Hi Melissa
I don't know how you do it but you seem to have a thought or an answer to a question I am struggling with..
Is it men or is it men who walk out..

I have way too much empathy, my H none. I still am not clear on my transgressions. ?really but my point posting here is I asked how he thought I was feeling...it fitted with the conversation at the time...
His answer... not well.... really 14 year relationship finished with NO discussion in one afternoon...NOT WELL

so I checked my translator.. I wondered does German have words for devasted, destroyed, crushed.betrayed... Guess what it does... lots of them..and he choooses NOT WELL.
Why choose the word murdered, why tell a little girl to stop following him...
I have been reading your posts... you are an inspiration...but your H...hmm NOT an inspiration...really

Melissa

My words were posted while your recent one was posted/cross-posted, b/c I had NOT seen the fish story when I wrote to you...

I'm still not done reading it, but felt I had to stop to quickly

say this one thing to you-----I'm upset with your h.

SIGH...back to your thread...

M,

I truly have sorrow in my heart after reading that exchange.

I think this whole fish/rejection of d, ought to be brought to the attention of a child psychologist asap.

1) I believe your kids need counseling asap. It cannot hurt! (Sure I think your h needs help too, but that's his business/sandbox, isn't it?)

2) IF this is new behavior, then I truly think your h is transferring his anger at you, onto your d, OR he's trying to punish you, thru her, and or he's just cruel.

Any of these possibilities will scar your d more than she already will be, by a divorce. There's no way she won't feel rejected by the divorce, b/c he IS rejecting HER, openly.



At times when my h was gone, and our son acted selfishly, I did see my h in him (b/c they were both acting selfishly. Never mind that my son was a teen).
I sometimes over reacted. Was I transferring my anger at h onto my s? Never consciously.

But S27 asked me about this several years ago, and I had to think about it & I discussed it with my T. I gave some examples. In at least a few of the episodes, I think there was some validity to son's claim. Still makes me heartsick.

Yes, I apologized to S for it. But No, I never said anything to son like your h said to your d. BUT STILL, I am ashamed.

I was somewhat self aware even then, and yet I hurt our son enough for him to ask me about it years later. So, when I say your d will be damaged, I base it on my own experience and I mean it.

3) You want to know what happens to our kids later on?

Well, our d24 sees a T now. Sure, she might have anyhow. But one never knows. And she did admit she has some depression, and some negative feelings about men based on her dad's choices. NOTE Melissa, we are reconciled, and my h would kill/die for our kids.

So, I cannot imagine your d NOT being affected by this. And who knows what it teaches your son about how to treat women...

ALSO, our youngest, D16, is now in therapy and takes ADs for depression. She's depressed and has anxiety issues that deeply sadden me to hear. We pulled her out of school b/c of this and She has gone on Indep study to avoid high school. She's also saying she's not "straight" in her sexual orientation (with various labels attached to that).

When I asked about whether some of her feelings, might be related to her r with her dad & our past marital challenges, she said "well it didn't help that he ignored me for years"...referring to his absence in the sep.

She also asked "would you rather have me be a slut to get male approval?"

She's a bright kid. But she's in some pain now. Maybe she has been for awhile. However I think it hit her more recently b/c she has awakened to love and desire and all the adolescent stuff but yet she has this painful R in her life, with her dad.

Thing is, My H tries, Melissa, he really tries. And his "crime," was his absence. I cannot think of a time when he was actually cruel to her, ever. Picky, yes, mean? No. Even in his weirdness, he always wanted time with the kids. CRAVED it.

Today, he's working very hard to undo the damage the sep and his choices have done. He says he'll "get naked if I need to (emotionally) and we can do group therapy or individual or I'll do a workshop with her...TELL ME WHAT TO DO to make it better." I wish we had a time machine.

B/C she shuts him out...and it hurts him. And I see that and I get it.
Of course I said this would happen, back then, but what use is there reminding him of that now? He knows it now!

All I can do is pass on to you, what I learned.

When I see the damage of my h's past absence on our daughters especially, and then I see your h's present, outrageous behavior,
I know you hope against hope that it won't harm her...

But I must tell you, sadly, that YES it will, and please get her help. Help her GAL as much as possible, (I swear I want to buy her a new fish). Also, animals do not "murder". When they kill it's b/c they hunt, they eat their prey, they kill competitors or if they feel threatened. It's not "murder"...

Protect her from his cruel idiocy.

And you know, if this is your option, meaning if this is HIM, then a divorce will not hurt her nearly as much as more time with him....


Finally, given all this, the very idea of your h having half custody reminds me of the adage in comedy that "Comedy is tragedy, plus some time"...b/c it's tragic that he's such a jerk right now, and it's hilarious that he thinks he'd be a decent father with that much time as a single parent.

Based solely on this interaction (the fish and his rejections of your d) makes me think you should ask that his visits be supervised. (I'm not really kidding, though I know how well it would be received...).

II hope your h gets help before his foolish cruelty harms his r with her, beyond repair. He really needs some IC. Maybe as part of the "parenting in divorce" classes many states require??

In sum, Your h has wronged you all, to be sure. But he's also doing you a huge favor by getting out of your life.

I'm so sorry that you are seeing this side of him. But he's a lost soul. He may be salvaged someday or somewhere, but You cannot save him. Your job is to protect the children from him in his present state.

Now I have even more hope that you'll finding a loving man, so your kids will have a healthy loving model of that in their lives.

Meanwhile, any positive male role models ought to be as involved in your kids' lives as possible. Show them alternatives to their dad...sorry M.

(((( ))))

m. your post rang a bell with me. I was always the one smoothing things over in our family. I am just now getting it!
don't know how to do the quick guote thing, but where you said your h couldn't empathize with your d's feelings, with your feelings. How he couldn't understand anyone having feelings other than the way he felt- BINGO! That's my h!

During one of his return, leaving again episodes. I said to h...what if I said to you," I think I need some time to myself, I think I'll just go out and get my own apt and do my thing and you take care of the kids...." His response... well I guess if that is what you want to do... Bullshot. He knows I would never do that!

As 25 says, and I now see this too. parenting is a chore to h. he doesn't get the nurture satisfaction from it.

family is important to me! It is not as important to my h.

I know good will be in store for us M!
you have to keep doing what you are so good at doing and that is taking care of your kids!

My S20 sees a therapist( on his own) I worry about s17 and the keeping of his feelings smashed down inside. s17 knows I love,love him! He has some great teachers and coaches that I am thankful for...not the same as his dad, but thankful none-the -less.

my h texts d15 pretty much everyday( goodmorning and goodnight) I suppose that is enough to fill his love tank. He doesn't consider what d needs....really, its too bad for him.

Your H didn't handle the dying fish well. He made a bad choice, he may not be a bad person.

I asked some questions about 3 threads back that never got answered so I'll try again:

You've said many times that your H didn't have a good role model growing up. Not an excuse, just an explanation. Without seeing the need to change, none of us would, we continue to walk around doing as we were programmed.

2. All parents parent differently (I know that's not a news flash). We each bring our weaknesses as well as our strengths. Your H had enough good qualities that you were attracted to him, married him, had babies with him. What are the good qualities he brings to parenting? What are your parenting strengths? Weaknesses? (be brutally hones and you don't have to do this here. this is for you)

3. When you got in that fight at Disneyland, how did it start? Do you remember what you said? (I'm asking what you said cause it doesn't matter what he said, he's not here. you didn't like his behavior so I'm guessing you spoke first)

Knowing what you know now, how would have handled that differently, leading with love and keeping the R in front of your mind?

Your kids probably could benefit from therapy but then, I think everyone needs therapy.

About birthdays :), it's not my strong suit. I have a very difficult time remembering dates. If you tell me your birthday is coming up and you want me to celebrate your birth, I'm there but don't expect me to remember the date year-to-year. And no, I don't put them in my calendar to remind me. I used to get H's wrong (and this was when I was younger) I thought it was the 4 th, it's the 5th. He had to give me a way to remember it. My mom's is Mar 15th. I always thought it was the 17th. At least I was within the margin of error

Not remembering the actual birth date doesn't mean I don't love these people.

I do remember my kids' days but I was there.

Ah, Bug, looks like I hit a nerve. I really hope you know that in my post, I never, ever stated or implied that my XH does not love his daughters because he doesn't remember their exact birthdays. Ever. For the record, my XH is one of those people who does remember - and he was also there every step of the way. That's why it was funny. But since I hit a nerve here on that, maybe the lesson is that in the end, it matters more that others are hurt when their closest loved ones do not remember or write them down. It matters to them, and perception is *their* truth - regardless of the reasons behind it.

25, I have to say that your post resonated with me greatly. And you stated what I was mulling last night - very late, after a glass of celebratory wine. I was a biology major, and fish eating other fish is definitely part of the circle of life and a lovely example of Darwin's survival of the fittest. Murder/homicide doesn't exist in the animal kingdom, and what he said to his D9 was inappropriate and downright mean.

I'll even go a step further. A gift is a gift. And it's also unfair and inappropriate to attach conditions to one - especially a gift to a child - later on.

Melissa, I know you mentioned going to a C, but do your kids? I had my D20 in C for one year stints twice after her dad moved out. People kept telling me how well she was handling it. As her mom, I knew full well how my D processes - and I saw danger, danger ahead. That's when I put her into C with a fabulous child psychologist and found out there were plenty of issues that needed to be addressed. And honestly, some of them were how I was parenting after he left. It was what I needed to hear too.



This is very true. And I also consider traveling this path one of the greatest gifts that has ever been bestowed on me. Because it showed me and told me that I *could* be different. Many of the people here take it to heart and put this lesson to work for themselves.

And while I understand where you are going with this, I also don't believe that just because our spouses/former spouses choose not to do the work and then go on to inflict ignorant damages on children that it's okay. Ignorance is never an excuse to hurt others.

Did you ever have a defining moment with a parent that hurt you to the core, that maybe you've forgiven but not forgotten? I can tell you that mine was a few years ago. And since my sister reacted the same way I did, I know I'm not crazy. We have a younger brother who is a junkie. He's been a drug abuser since he was 12, and has been in and out of jail since he was 16. He's stolen from my parents and their friends, and he's burned the back half of their house down when my grandmother and cousin were staying there. The fire department ruled the cause from my brother cooking his heroin and then passing out. My mother told everyone it was unattended candles.

So a few years later, my entire family was together. My mother announced to everyone and God that my brother is her favorite and that he has a much kinder and honest soul than either me or my sister. We both felt the stab of a knife through our hearts. To this day, it has affected my sister's R with our parents greatly. (I chose to see it from the POV of my enabling mom. Because our dad doesn't feel the same way.) My sister is going to be 50 in a few weeks, and it would be good for her to get into a little therapy too. I'm trying to get her out here to go to the I Can Do It seminar..

Anyway, people do forgive, but it is very likely that it will be Melissa guiding her kids and wiping away the tears when their dad says stuff like that to them. The natural consequence is that they will distance themselves from him. That's all well and good. But a mother's instincts are to protect. And I honestly think this is one of those instances where she needs to address this with him. Maybe in the context of a C session with the family. He may not realize that his filter is broken, but it doesn't mean it's okay to do those things.

UD, no nerves were damaged in the writing of these posts. I was presenting the other side and thought is was amusing that my story and your H's story were similar. I didn't think you were implying he didn't love them, I was speaking from my truth. Sometimes new posters/readers here tend to pick out certain things about their Ss and then conflagrate that. I know I certainly did. I was thinking more in terms of we all have annoying, sometime hurtful, idiosyncracies; that doesn't mean that's who we are. There are 2 sides to every coin.

We're all more alike than we are different and finding those commonalities has helped me with empathy and forgiveness.

As I said, I think everyone needs therapy. And I'm serious about that even tho it seems hyperbolic. Yes, I have had many defining moments with my mother thorough my life, I distanced my self geographically and emotionally from my FOO, I've been working through that for years. I'm finally to a place where I can forgive my mother, doesn't mean I condone her actions, but I don't have to carry that rock anymore. It's hers.

I had to get to a place where I could see her clearly and understand that she was as much a product of her programming as I was of mine. I eventually (it took a long time with me kicking and screaming, helped by BD) "seized" the opportunity to change. She didn't have that opportunity.

I believe Melissa should address his lack of empathy with him but how that's approached is key to getting what she seeks, which I think is for him to hear her. It's a matter of doing it from a place of empathy and compassion or a place of blame and shame.

I've been married 35 years and it took me 33 years to learn that.

Melissa's H isn't here trying to improve, Melissa is. We can wish our spouses would change but as my aunt used to say "Wish in one had and spit in the other, see which one gets full fastest."

So we're left with changing the only person we can change.

And in reading back my H's birthday is the 4th, I used to think it was the 5th. See, I still don't know it. Freudian????

But I do keep track of a small, very small, number of birthdays.