Hi LFC - sex starvation can go on a long time (10 years in my case). I think you need to be prepared for a long haul. Her behavior does sound like MLC.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Luke, we are unique. all other men I know would be murderous and running to the lawyer after 2 weeks. Even books I read say crisis is around 2.5 months. Not 5+ years. I'm going on 11 years and I guess my self-esteem and confidence takes the biggest hits here. It hurts to not feel desired or wanted anymore. Just bought MWD's "sex-starved marriage" and "When M/V Collide". I just keep reading and I crave knowledge.
Me 43 W 43 S 10 (Special Needs) M: 14 yrs T: 18 yrs Bomb: 09/16/12 Filed for D: WHO KNOWS???
The NY Times had an article 4 days ago about marriage equality leading to less ML. The most popular comment was that sex is not a necessity in marriage.
On the other hand, not to feel desired or wanted really stinks. Without that I don't see how a M can work. I absolutely sympathize with what happens to your self-esteem and confidence, and am sorry to hear it. It feels like the taproot of our self-esteem has been pulled out.
If there are any fun meetups near you, perhaps just getting out of the house and away from your W could buoy you up a bit. I have the "luck" to spend lots of time away from home, and go to meetups there, and have fun. Just feeling the vibe from other women there has helped.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Luke, I belong to a lot of dating sites. My wife told me to go find somebody else and I was angry enough to exactly that. I get a lot of hits and requests. I was going to answer some until I read DR, but you're right it does help some that other women find you attractive and interesting. Just not the one im trying to get the attention of.
Me 43 W 43 S 10 (Special Needs) M: 14 yrs T: 18 yrs Bomb: 09/16/12 Filed for D: WHO KNOWS???
Now my question is, is my situation too far gone? In other words, has my wifes' resentment been left to fester so long (11+yrs) that I may never win her back? She never literally communicated to me her unhappiness no matter how much I tried to address mine with her. SOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!
Me 43 W 43 S 10 (Special Needs) M: 14 yrs T: 18 yrs Bomb: 09/16/12 Filed for D: WHO KNOWS???
OMG! MWD has nailed it again! She has described my entire relationship in the first few pages of "sex-starved" marriage. The emotional distance, irritability, short tempers everything. Spot on in relation to myself.
Me 43 W 43 S 10 (Special Needs) M: 14 yrs T: 18 yrs Bomb: 09/16/12 Filed for D: WHO KNOWS???
I think she's going through a MLC. Maybe yes, maybe no. But the SSM has been going on for a decade. I hardly think all of this is new or "different from" before.
But what difference does it make? Seriously.
Don't spend time on diagnosing her, when you could spend that time on Your own work, which is the only thing you have any control over.
She uses terms from the 80's. She adopted a new personality that combines everything that bothered her about mine. She curses alot. She's yelling and screaming at my son. Just curious. Every single time you have referred to your son, you have used the terms "My son". To be clear, your son IS her biological child, too, right?
She never used to drink, now she buys beer for the house. I don't drink. She goes out with her friends who are 20 and 30 somethings. She calls me DUDE which I HATE! It's so impersonal. When we're home together she stays in the bedroom and doesn't come out. Here^^^, I crossed out the parts of her behavior that you do Not control...which, if you notice, is ALL of it.
Yesterday I went to ask her something in the bedroom and when I opened the door I found her on the bed on her knees acting out some kind of fantasy in very sexy underwear she bought herself. Grinding and caressing her body while singing some sexy songs and looking in the mirror. The music was so loud she didn't even notice me. I closed the door to not interrupt her but all I felt was sadness. This woman was making herself feel sexy when it should have been my job as a husband to help her feel that way as much as possible.
You just left her like that? Why not compliment her? Yes, I mean that.
B/C Here, you sound really judgmental and if I were your w, that would humiliate me as much as not having sex for 10 years. Clearly she DOES have libido. And she wants to be sexy...for someone.
But instead of flirting with her (do you do that at all?) or enjoying her "show", you left in disgust or revulsion or "sadness"...
I think it could have been an opportunity for you to do something new, something different.
I only "know" one thing for sure here. Your wife will Not return to the m, UNLESS
she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.
What are you Doing to show that? (Not saying, but Doing)?
I failed. This is an upstanding Christian woman who, when we were together I thought, would in no way take part in the behaviors i'm witnessing now.
"Who are you and what have you done with my wife?"
Wow...."upstanding Christian woman"....but she LIKES sex??
I hear some Big judgements here^^^....compounding the tragedy of it all. You say you should have been the one to make her feel sexy but here you condemn the very behavior she is engaging in, TO MAKE HERSELF FEEL SEXY...
Do you now see anything you could have done differently in this^^ exchange?
If she is so disgusting to you, or her behavior is, maybe it's best to just give up...
or is there something, anything, YOU can do now to help her?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Now my question is, is my situation too far gone? In other words, We know what you mean. We all asked ourselves that very question when we were in your shoes. No one can answer that question. Well, at least not us.
has my wifes' resentment been left to fester so long (11+yrs) that I may never win her back? First off, stop looking for a reason to give up.
Second, I happen to believe that love does not "die" a natural death. Yes, it can be killed. But it does not die on its' own.
Love can be covered by a lot of other layers, so that it cannot be seen or felt much anymore, due to those layers of resentment, betrayal, Fear, Rejection, neglect, the withholding of all affection...
(BTW, That choice of yours hit me as the strangest reaction to being denied sex, that I can imagine. Why not INCREASE the affection, but Detach it from sex? SHOW her love/affection, without expectation (which is more loving than affection--foreplay--expectation.)
When men give or show affection ONLY to get sex, it feels a lot LESS like love, & a lot more like a step towards their own goal.
When the layers are removed, the love remaining is revealed.
Your job is to help remove the layers (and causes) of her pain, to the extent You cause or create or contribute to them.
I sense you'd like permission to give up. I'm not handing that out today.
She never literally communicated to me her unhappiness no matter how much I tried to address mine with her. SOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!
I understand the frustration. Let me ask you a few things that might clarify.
When you say you "tried to address" your unhappiness with her, do you mean you complained to her about You being miserable?
And so now you are shocked that SHE is the one to leave. But to me, it sounds as if you came off as critical and cold to her.
Plus, you punished her for not wanting sex, by denying her ANY physical contact (which is 90% of how I get "in the mood". e.g., My h gives me a back rub, or just holds me, or we get affectionate and "one thing leads to another...")
I think not having sex for that long WAS HER communicating her unhappiness.
To me she sounds depressed and neglected. Having your son and finding his condition "challenging" is very upsetting to mothers, especially when he's the only child. How much was She responsible for his care?
What, if anything, would YOU DO differently if she were to return to you?
IOW, what would be better/different from before?
If you cannot list a few specifics, (at YOUR end, not hers)
your chances of recon successfully are much SMALLER.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
WOW! I am being totally misunderstood here and when I reread what I wrote I can see how what I said was misconstrued.
The truth is I don't find her behaviors disgusting...farrrrr from it. I'm not being judgmental. I'm just saying when she was in the m she would be so conservative that what she is doing now, and it only started after she asked for D and not the entire 11 years, would not even be a part of my most wild imagination. I don't condemn her, its just I wish she was doing this for me instead of feeling she had to do this in secret. It was my failure as a husband to not have made her feel sexy about herself more, not that I failed keeping her a conservative christian woman. I could care less about that. If I would have said something in that bedroom she would have been embarrassed and mortified, it would not have been appreciated and probably would've made things worse, so I kept to myself. Fact is the way she is now turns me on MORE than before and its tragic that there is nothing I can do about it. I agree she is trying to be sexy for someone.
You know, even though I was angry, hurt, depressed, and irritable, when ever I snapped at my wife (because I was feeling bitter and resentful especially because she acted numb to the problems we had) I thought I was being respectful by never calling her names, or doubting her intelligence, or intentionally saying hurtful things. What I learned is the way I questioned and my tone of voice said the same things I didn't say with actual words.
I know my w hurt and pain is legitimate. I caused it. I don't deny that. Just as my hurt and pain is legitimate and my reactions to that were normal. She just denies her role in it.
What i'm doing now is employing the LRT. Trying to become detached. Any attempt by me flirting (I have) or complimenting or listening (my 180 because I was cold and angry) have been met with hohumness. I understand this is part of the process. Everyone around me that knows the situation says i'm just wasting my time and that things went on as they are for far too long.
Right now i'm trying to be the best man I can possibly be regardless.
Me 43 W 43 S 10 (Special Needs) M: 14 yrs T: 18 yrs Bomb: 09/16/12 Filed for D: WHO KNOWS???
I did not pick up ANY good feelings from you about her in the bedroom. You are saying things pretty different now.
I'm glad you re read your wording b/c it SURE Sounded like judgement and condemnation to me. Moving on...
You wrote: Any attempt by me flirting (I have) or complimenting or listening (my 180 because I was cold and angry) have been met with hohumness. I understand this is part of the process.
You mean her not immediately reacting favorably to your apparent changes? Of course she is not ready to do that. To me it's clear SHE is depressed, and has felt rejected for some time. That does Not mean it's hopeless. She fears that your changes are not real OR if they are real they are temporary and you will revert to the rejecting critical ways of before. So How can you "MAKE" her see that the changes in you are real and permanent? It's not with huge dramatic SINGLE gestures or wording that will aid you.
"DO the math." small consistent changes + sufficient time = Change she can believe in...
Keep at it.
You also wrote: Everyone around me that knows the situation says i'm just wasting my time and that things went on as they are for far too long.
"EVERYONE"?... I don't believe that for a second. It's just what YOU are hearing in your head the most and you need to ask yourself why you weed out the positives that others tell you. Are you looking for permission to quit? (IMO If you cannot say that you "tried everything" to save your m, it'll haunt you later. I know you have not tried everything, b/c this DBing is different and new for you.)
And Here, NO ONE is telling you you are "wasting" your time. NO ONE. How could self improvement be a "waste"?
Also, If someone were advising your w that SHE had lived with far too much anger & criticism from you, for way too long, what would YOU say?
Right now i'm trying to be the best man I can possibly be regardless.
good! Just know that you must be doing it FOR YOU, not for her or to get her back. That would be a tactical strategy but it's not the same as desired personal growth and improvement. IF you genuinely realize how hard you were to live with, and you really do change, she will know and it will matter. "Do the math" about it and keep at it.
Yes we know your m has had serious problems for a really long time. NEITHER of you tried constructive ways to communicate or express your needs or to meet the other's.
But NOW you are getting NEW DIFFERENT TOOLS so for once, you are going to try something that might work, Instead of repeating behaviors that have never helped or have made things worse and then claiming to have "tried it all"...
so now there IS A CHANCE at a recon. But it will take much longer than you realize. ACCEPT that. I am not sure you are letting that sink in.
But if you become a better man for it, that is an end it itself.
For me it's the real goal of this. The real journey in life is an inward one. Dig deep and get some big boy panties on and KEEP AT IT...for you and for your son and yes, for her....
start with becoming a man YOU are happy to be. Become a man only a fool would leave.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
This is an