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All good points AS!!

I need to go back to re read sandi2's rules again.

I didn't think showing her our financial situation would be controlling. If we were going through paperwork anyways. The manner in which we were paying off debt was a joint discussion/decision we had about 4 or so years ago. Although, back then I did bring it to the table not her so maybe you are correct. It is my way even though it was a joint discussion.

I have been asking her different things about how she does certain things. Sometimes she answers sometimes she doesn't. When she does I try to follow with appreciative answers or positive thoughts letting her know I was listening to her. When she doesn't answer I just let it go and don't push it.

I don't mind if she does things around the house. I always wanted that in the first place. I am not doing things that W can do for herself but shoveling the driveway and chipping ice is something,in my opinion, any male room mate or H would do for his counterpart.

If I don't do things such as this, won't I come off as lazy and unmotivated? Which is what her vision of me has been based upon comments she has made in the past.

Also, If I was not back home I feel confident that these things would not be getting done for one reason or another. Once I moved back and started doing things W has followed my lead and started also doing cleaning. Her stuff only but if it cleans up 1/2 of the mess that was there then I feel it makes both us feel better.

Things were pretty bad cleanliness wise, not condemned type bad far from it, but not any place you would want anyone including family to see. It got to the point that it was overwhelming to the both of us. She mentioned this a few times to me I agreed but neither of us did anything about it.

Is there another way to approach doing these things that need done? Like telling her what my thoughts are and asking for hers concerning upgrades? She did make a comment around Christmas that we really cant do any improvements till we see what the L's say. I told her I didn't have a L and she didn't confirm she did either. I told her I wasn't ready for that yet anyhow. Now it is getting close to where I would like to start painting the rooms.

I don't want to look like I am just doing them to "show" her I have changed. These are things that truly need done if we are going to get any value out of the house in case it has to be sold.

I really am doing these things to make myself feel better but in the back of my mind I do hope a byproduct of this is it makes her feel better also. I am trying not to have expectations that it will though.

The W and I are going to same party this weekend but separately of course.

Last weekend we were at the same party but it was much larger than this one will be.

We have many mutual friends at both places. I have not gone to the club that had the party last week as much as the other because MIL works at that one.

Last week it was easy to stay away from W because of the amount of people that attended. She didn't shy away from coming over to the table I was sitting at to sell some tickets though.

When I first arrived, it was me and MIL walking in together purely accidentally. We were alone and I said Hi she responded very awkwardly saying hi back.

At the party itself W Uncle(MIL Brother), who I went to school with, shook my hand and we had some small talk. A little later he walked up and we talked a bit again I asked how his Mom was and he told me not feeling well so she would not be coming. I told him to wish her well for me and he said he would

Mutual friends pretty much were Neutral which was great but a few came up and asked if I was Ok I told them yes and they said they hope everything works out because they know how much I love my W. They also seem to feel that MIL is at least a little of the reason W is not receptive to working things out.

Not recently but in the past it was mentioned more than once that it was thought that MIL was jealous of the M the W and I had and all we had money wise, love wise etc. you get the picture.

This bring us to this weeks function. There will 1/10th of the people at this party about 25 or 30.

I was told that W and MIL will be attending. I never asked W if she was going and she has never offered to tell me.

I go to this club at least once a week as I am in a league. I don't want people to take sides here but most seem to be closer to me. The only reason is the W has only been up to this club 2 times since the S. She has reached out to these people a few times and they have contacted her a little also.

After I moved back the W limited a couple of the them on a social media site to what they can see. Not sure why this occurred and neither are they.

With this party being smaller and everybody knows that we are S (Some know I am living back home others don't), what should I do?

This party is much quieter than last weeks and I just want to try to make it easier on our friends more than easier on me or the W.

Last week party was weird, felt like I was being watched to see what I would do. This weeks party will be even weirder I think because of the close setting.

I will try to "act if" we are just friends at the same place or should I be like week and have no spoken words with W at all. I could handle talking but I am not sure she could based on how she acted last week.

W and MIL did not attend the party today. I didn't ask why but told her she was welcome to some leftovers that I brought home because after all she paid into the party all year.

She returned home about 2 hrs after I did. Now I am sitting here thinking. I wonder what people on the outside looking in at our sitch must think. I don't care that much what is thought because they are allowed to have their own opinions. Just curious, Do they think I am a fool or being taken advantage of? Do they think I am the one being unreasonable by moving back home against W wishes?

I am certainly more happy being back home even though things aren't progressing the way I hoped.

I know the W is not happy that I have returned home but this is for me not her. Can't help wondering though if me being here is helping or hindering my efforts to work on the M. Or at least to possibly get a chance to work on the M at some point in future.

I might never find out that answer again just curious

Has anybody else had a similar experience as this?

LBS left home at WAS request,he gave time and space while working on himself to become the person WAS first fell in love with all over again, Once he could knew he could handle it he returned back to marital home and is now wondering what to do next.

Does it become a battle of wills?

I don't want it to turn into that but I can only control what I do. I realize W heart might never soften to me again and if that is the case why doesn't W just move on and file for D?

She claims to have no money but if you want something bad enough(a D) you can always find a way to make it happen.

If W is not sure what she wants then why not at least try and see if the M can be saved by discussing it me or going to MC or IC?

Maybe I am too worried about the small stuff but I will put it out there.

My 180 has been to do more around the house and more often. For instance, shoveling the driveway more than once in a day sometimes 2 or 3 times. Before I would let it go completely sometimes and let Mother Nature take care of it or do it once and that would actually take a longer aggregate time than doing three times before a lot built up.


Anyway, I have been doing this since I moved home. The W who doesn't start many conversations with me said about a month ago " Thanks for doing the driveway but why didn't you use the snowblower(she bought an awesome one for me for Christmas a few years back). I said "There wasn't that much snow and it was good exercise." The conversation stopped and nothing further was said until a couple days ago.

I have been getting up early and shoveling before work or on weekends.

Recently, we have had a lot of snow so I have been trying to keep up with it by doing it more often.

The W says "Why is the snowblower still in the shed?" I said " We haven't had enough snow to warrant bringing it out." We have but I guess I was happy doing it my way.

She said "I'm glad I spent all that money to have it sit in the shed."

Normally, this might have brought out a smart a$$ remark from me or started a fight.

I have been able to let things go like this because I know better than to start an unproductive conflict.

I thought about this overnight and decided the W had a correct point. We have a snowblower why not use it.

So yesterday after work, I pulled the snowblower out of the shed and cleaned the driveway.

I feel like in a little way this might let the W know that I heard what she was saying and took her opinion into account. This is something she said I never did. I disagree but that doesn't matter it is her feeling.

Am I sweating the small stuff and not seeing the overall picture?

Any thoughts?

I think so. Most LBH's swing into "homebody" mode when the WAW BD's them. They cook, clean, do laundry, clean the drive, etc. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't gain any points with the WAS for 3 reasons:

1) They always view stuff like this as "too little, too late".

2) It is all beta behavior which is not what attracts women to men. Alpha behavior is where the attraction is. Alpha is strength, independence, strong self-esteem. Alpha is where initial attraction comes from, then beta provides comfort. But after many years of marriage a lot of men lose all their alpha and have way too much beta. After BD we tend to do the opposite of what we should do- we become needy, emotional wrecks and we INCREASE our beta behavior instead of working on our alpha.

3) By increasing our beta behavior we inadvertently take over many of the WAS's responsibilities around the house which makes them feel they are no longer needed. They feel like we're pushing them out the door even though we think we're helping them.

So, clean the driveway, just don't expect it to have any impact on your W. Do it because it's what YOU want to do. What's more important is what are YOU doing to get out, GAL and become the strong, independent, good-looking man she was attracted to to begin with?

Thanks AS,

I believe I am in a tough spot. My W always complained that I never helped around the house. Problem is she never did anything either. I don't know if that had something to do with the way she was brought up or what. She felt like she was doing everything laundry, dishes, cooking but no general house cleaning things like dust, run the sweeper, clean bathrooms etc.

I always tried to do housecleaning but the pattern was she would get upset if I tried because IMHO it was something she probably thought she should be doing but didn't feel like it.

It could have been because I didn't do much repairs on the exterior of the home too(staining the deck, cleaning the garage, etc) I understand that.

About two years ago I heard what she was saying and started doing laundry, dishes and some cooking. She noticed this and told me so.

The only thing I didn't do was general house cleaning because for some reason that still seemed to cause a problem when I tried. Maybe I had an attitude about doing it and she sensed it and that is what upset her.

If I did have an attitude I don't anymore. I am very cautious about it so that I don't project one either.

She is now pitching in with the general housekeeping. We are still doing our own laundry, dishes and cooking because we are in a in-house S. We aren't cleaning together but it is getting done.

Not sure how I can turn that into an Alpha behavior.

Just the other day I did put a cedar chest together we got as gift about 10 years ago. I could start to paint the inside of the house because it needs done badly. I then will have a friend install new carpet and some hardwood we always talked about but didn't do because of our pets.

When I proposed this last Summer she felt I was throwing it in her face because she said we would have to sell the house and leave everything that we did that she wanted done years ago for someone else to enjoy.

Her response to the cedar chest was "why is that out of the box it is just going to be harder to move when we have to leave." I said "I thought we could use it for storage and it is not that heavy." She said "I don't think you understand what I am saying." I didn't respond that way we didnt get into a D convo. I knew what she meant though.

She said over Christmas that we couldn't do upgrades on the house till we found out what the L's had to say about it. If I do start to paint and she gets upset how do I handle this? I want to do it to make the house nicer for me and W because it is something I should have done a long time ago. But also so that if we have to sell, it might increase an offer.

As far GAL, I am still going out to the social clubs we used to go to together. I am not drinking though I haven't since the S, I did join a gym. I need to rejoin after having eye surgery that wouldn't allow me to lift weights.

I am doing basically all the same things we used to do together but I am doing them by myself. Its stinks but it is things I enjoy so that helps.

She knows I renewed tickets for a Car race and plan on going. We have gone to this for the past 10 years together along with my MIL. At first, when I asked about the renewal form she asked are you still going I said yes and she said oh. It came out the night I moved back that she was unhappy because she felt she was paying for half of the trip and not going. I put the tickets on a credit card but knew in two months I would be paying them off with the way we are splitting the bills so I didn't think it was a problem.

I will save her a ticket but I have already asked others friend to attend and they probably will. If not I will go myself not a problem. If she decides to go she is more than welcome. The friends that I asked are mutual so if she does decide to go it would give her people to talk other to than me. This might make her consider it but I have no expectations.

I know the "too little too late" deal but you have to start somewhere correct?

I am doing things on my own so not to appear needy, but I am asking her questions or opinions in e mails or texts, sometimes speaking directly about things that she has better knowledge than me on and letting her know that I think she is very good at these things.

I have built up my self-esteem and know that I can be fine without W but I am choosing to stand for my M. I have done a good job at keeping my emotions in check.

I believe I am projecting this "new" me to my W and others. Friends and family have told me they see changes. I am not sure if this is them being nice or they are sincere.

The W on the other hand, has told me all these things I am doing and she listed them out must make me feel "holier than thou". I told her no I am just doing things for myself to be a better person.

If there are examples of Alpha vs Beta behaviors I would be interested in an example or two that I might be able to apply to my Sitch.

Thanks in advance!

You can't turn beta into alpha, they're two distinctly different categories. Read the Married Man Sex Life Primer, it doesn't dovetail much with DB'ing and some consider it sexist, but it's by far the best thing I've seen written on the difference between alpha and beta behavior and offers great tips on what any of us can do to improve our alpha.



Yeah, that's the "too little, too late" WAS attitude that I mentioned before.



That's good, just keep it up, you'll start enjoying these things again. I remember how tough it was to GAL, I actually dreaded leaving the house. I was afraid to. I had to FORCE myself. Eventually I learned to tolerate it, then enjoy it. It takes a while, but the key is to keep doing it.



Absolutely, I was just making the point that you should do these things as much for you as for her, because she'll find ways to turn every positive into a negative.

When I came home from work today. The W had packed up all her knick knacks that were on two shelves in our living room.

I am not trying to read into a reason why she did this today and not last month or last summer.

I am ok but a bit nervous that she might bring up D discussion. I want to avoid this but might not be able to.

If she asks to talk to me about this what should I do?

I will listen to what she has to say very intently but after I do is it ok to say "Thank you for telling me these things. I need some time to digest it all and we can talk more then."

That way things aren't said on emotions. Depending on what she says I will try to empathize with her and validate her feelings.

I feel that I shouldn't have to rush to respond considering she has had 7 months to do something and is now just getting around to it.

If she does bring up the D subject Im sure she will want to do relatively quickly. Fastest or shortest way allowed by law. I am not feeling that I want to handle it in that manner.

I need some advice on how to handle this please.

I hope I am just overthinking things but I also need and want to be prepared as much as possible if this is coming.

I hope this doesn't lead to anything too serious.

The W text this morning asking if I talked to cable company about her being able to change things on the account. I told her I had not because back in Nov. when she asked the same question I asked her for the number and yes I would call them and tell them she is authorized to make changes. She never responded.

I guess it wasn't that important back then as it is now.

She is also asking the same about the cell phone.

All this stem from the fact that her benefits were discontinued last week I think and now she wont be able to pay her share of the bills after this month or even sooner.

When I responded back to her I asked what her thoughts were to lower these bills. She said whatever she had to do to lower them because she hardly ever watches cable and what they charge is ridiculous. The cell phone is too high also. I negotiated the costs about a year ago to get the best possible rate and I think we are locked in for another year or so.

I then text I have no problem with what you are trying to do. In fact, I agree that maybe less movie channels would lessen the bill. I am busy now but I have some thoughts can we discuss it tonight?

I haven't receive a reply yet.

My problem is during this bill discussion it might roll over to a D discussion.

I hope not but How can I keep it strictly about bills only?

I can afford to pay a bigger portion of the bills but don't feel the need too considering she hasn't IMHO put forth her best effort to get or look for another job.

I don't want it to seem like black mail but I know she will try not accept extra help from me. I can pay extra without expectation but I think she thinks I won't or can't.

What is a good way of offering assistance without making it seem like she needs my help. Or better yet to get her to ask me for help. I don't know if she will concede the fact that her income stream has been curtailed.

I have had a plan in place, in my mind, even before the S if she or I lost our job. I want her to have input in this so I am not going to share that with her right now. Because this plan was assuming we were still together and not S.

She made the comment about a week ago that she would handle the household bills till we are D I said sure no problem you have been doing a great job ever since you took over and she has. I hope that when she finds out that she might not be able to lower these costs she doesn't flip out and if she does I need to be able to try and turn this into a positive from a position that might seem like I will have control. I want to avoid at all costs because that is one reason she has said she has become a WAS.

Advice please

My advice would be to stop being afraid of your W's actions, regardless of what they are. What do YOU want to do? Move forward with doing that.