Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers melissag VIII - but I'm afraid to have no fear!

M, I am just catching up. 25 says great things. I too need to hear it.
I know where you are coming from. one thing that helps me is remembering it is such a script.
I too think my h has moved on. h likes to say,time to move forward. he does not want to see or face what got him to this point. only that he is here and doesn't want to look back.I agree with 25. what h is losing is way more....my kids know/see my commitment, love, forgiveness.
My kids see me sometimes being sad( which is ok- this is a sad time)but they also see me being strong. Doing things, making plans. They know my expectations of them. They know I have gratitude and appreciation for life.
I pray for h. I pray that he finds his happiness and peace.

^^^ When my W moved in with xAP, within a week I was focus driven to give her what she had said wanted by her actions... divorce. Until that I had avoided all talk of the big D. I was afraid. But when I started compiling the spreadsheets, getting my own bank account (I separated the finances completely), I made the list of household items and highlighted what I wanted etc... Well, she starter to avoided me. She ignored and delayed on all of it. That was the first time I received the "I made a mistake" stuff. Granted it still took her 3 months to come home, but I think when she saw that I was no longer going to try to change her mind and I was strong, happy and accepting of her choices... she was getting hit with reality pangs. Her about-face took a bit more time, but it happened.

For me, and I hope this for you, when I reached that personal space of acceptance and agreed with myself that I was no longer going to worry about her decisions that I could not control, my head got clearer and I was more at peace. It's REALLY scary to leave limbo and engage in the D stuff, especially because we don't want it. But I thought at the time, the more I ignore it/her or try to postpone it/her, the more focused she will be on it and the more she will convince herself that it's what she wants. She wanted to be heard so I listened and responded. It was then that she realized "uh-oh."

... And there is always more time... even if D has started. ALWAYS more time.

Well, I see 25's been here, 3 pages later...

Wow, 25.... what a great post! Awesome suggestions and reminders and all with logic and no fatalism. Sure hope Melissa takes your message to heart.

On the 2nd one, Melissa, I know you are a lawyer, but not sure what kind of law you practiced. But it probably means you can go the mediation route first since nothing is decided? My XH and I did not file - we used the entire 2 years he wanted from me, but we engaged a family law mediator 6 weeks into our separation. It really was not a predecessor to divorce - in fact, I think it really helped our situation. We used him to set up arrangements that were essentially rules of engagement. We set up parenting time, child support terms and finances, holidays, vacations and took care of other details to fill in the missing pieces.

I think he'd agree with me that it allowed us the chance to breathe, and to know what was expected of both of us so we could take care of the family as a whole going forward. And you know what? It worked so well that eventually we threw out the rules and just created a system that works for all of us. We still have legally binding rules per the decree, but we work so well together that they are not necessary.

So I can highly recommend going that route. If you read posts of others here, you can readily see that some of these poor folks from both genders are traumatized down the road by not doing this now. This is especially true, given that you said your H earns a healthy income.

I think I mentioned to you earlier on that the state of Colorado would balk at how little time your H spends with those kids. Even the mediator spoke up to me and my XH that he deserved to have them every other weekend - from Friday after school to Sunday evening. We added in weekdays because I work full time and it gave him the chance to have a say in their daily routines and to enjoy the benefit of being their father more than every other weekend. The state's official position is that the KIDS deserve to have access to both parents all week long, all month long - and the studies show that THEY fare better when the time spent with both is relatively even. Obviously, if the spouse is abusive or addicted, those rules fly out the window, but your H is neither.

I know you're afraid to let go of what you want, but I encourage you to do that. Melissa, by design, our role as a mother/parent is to help our kids develop skills and use resources to grow up and survive on their own. To encourage them to foster their Rs. To teach them how to navigate situations that are unpleasant or hurt. And I can tell you from experience that I'm not the best let-er-goer. Just ask my D19 about her senior year in HS. You spend 18 years building them up for that moment. It's YOUR responsibility to foster their growth.

In addition to teaching them that they have the RIGHT to love both you and their dad, you get the break necessary to indulge in caring for yourself.

We might have touched on this earlier, but all my time in IC and on this board has taught me that resentment builds when I'm not taking care of myself but I expect others to do so. Learn how to build yourself up in those times when you don't have the kids.

I can honestly speak that my XH and I were horrible at this when we still lived together. We both have admitted that had we done this for each other all along, our R might have had a different outcome. Instead, we castigated each other and labeled each other as selfish for needing a little time to ourselves. I never took it, and he took too much. And we resented each other so much. It was so unhealthy and unbalanced.

And for the record, having this routine gave my XH the chance to more readily examine our situation rather than allow him the opportunity to distract himself by details that were hashed out by the mediator. My XH had/has plenty of stuff from his childhood to deal with. Then a year into our separation his mother (with whom his R had been contentious and strained since I had known him) died. I knew then that it was going to send us to divorce - because I knew that he was not going to be ready to process US because he had to process HER. And I was right. So take advantage of what this process affords you.

After all, you want him to come back to you whole and healed, right? And the only way he'll come back is if you're whole and healed, and if you demonstrate compassion and empathy towards what he must be feeling to have felt he had no other choice than to leave. And as someone who wanted to walk herself, I don't think they consider themselves selfish. I think in some cases, it's self preservation. It must be sheer agony to feel that you have no choice but to leave. Try to put on his glasses for a second to see how he might view his life.

And 25, I'm also a big proponent of knowledge is power too. You can made educated decisions based on fact, and I find that I allay my anxieties when I have options. Sometimes it happens that you have to choose the worst of bad, but most of the time, by dealing with stuff from the top of the deck, I can do a pretty good job. As long as I know what I need to know beforehand.

Okay, I am really backlogged and need to get back to work.

Take care-

Betsey

I will have you know, I EDITED it down! Melissa got the "shorter" version...

Great post 25 Ironically I was just wondering about you on the drive in this morning, was thinking about how I hadn't seen you post in a while! Welcome back

25, don't edit on my account! You may have noticed that I have a bad case of diarrhea of the keyboard myself. All your stuff is good and what I need to hear, so please don't edit any of it out!

25, willbwell, RT and UD . . . wow. Just wow. Thank you. I have been struggling quite a bit the past few days and what a lift it was to see all your kind words and thoughtful advice.

Here comes the diarrhea . . .

I have been having so much trouble lately trying to figure out how to deal with H. How to interact with him. How much to interact with him. Whether to move closer or pull away. And generally driving myself crazy. I have gained more clarity on a couple of things, though.

I am still (though trying to keep it a secret even from myself) putting too much thought into what will make my H do something or think something, or say something. I need to be thinking of what I need. So that's what I am going to do. I am going to follow my instincts and act accordingly. If I feel that it is OK to say, go to dinner with him and the kids, I will. I do know that, at least for now, there will be no more ML. I don't think that I can feel good about myself ML with him when he has essentially told me that it's no strings sex. I did go ahead and ask him if he wants to go to the NBA game we have tickets to Saturday, because I feel that I can enjoy spending time with him and not be more hurt. If that turns out to be wrong, I will not do that again for a while. I just don't think that I can make a rule of limited contact or dim or dark or grey or whatever . . . I feel like the situation is fluid and I need to be able to roll with it. But, I will do so depending on how I am feeling, not how I think H is feeling or how he will respond.

I have been GALing, I have a great support system, I have made so many improvements to myself, and am regaining my self esteem, But in many ways I am still stuck. I am not moving forward, not because I am unable to focus on me and not my H, but because I am not breaking through a few specific hurdles that are holding me back.

I am ready to start removing those roadblocks. The first one is my house. You would never guess it by walking in (people tell me it looks like it's a model home and nobody lives here, ha ha!) but it's a total disorganized mess (drawers, closets, etc.), full of a bunch of crap I don't need and is weighing me down. When I try to tackle this project, it becomes very emotional/painful for me, and it seems too overwhelming. So, I am going to hire a professional organizer to come help me go through it. I know that I will feel liberated once I can get it done, and it's well past time to do it.

I also have a lot of fears around the process of D and the end result. Yet I still need to process a lot of anger on this front before I can move forward. As most of you know, H and I went to law school together and both had successful careers pre-kids. When D9 was born, we made a deal that he would work and I would be a SAHM. I have now been out of work for 9+ years . . . I can't possibly make anywhere near as much money as he can.

This is how it looks to me:

I will have to get a job (likely FT);
My kids will end up sitting in the kids club at school, or with a babysitter;
I will have to sell the house and move into a smaller one, or older one, or farther away;
We will be able to take fewer vacations and do fewer fun activities; and worst of all;
I will miss out on 50% of my children's childhood.

I am PISSED. Somehow H can make a unilateral decision to renege on our deal; to do his own selfish thing, then to take his (our) money and my (our) children with him. When I have given up my career, and my priority and focus all these years have been my kids. It seems so messed up - he gets the benefit of having worked these years, and he still gets the kids half the time (theoretically), whereas I get much less of the financial benefit of his working, but keep the burden of my not working; AND I lose half the time with my kids. I can't work out how this is in the least bit fair.

If someone else wrote this, I know what I would say. I know what the answer is. But emotionally, I am not there yet. I am still in tantrum mode and feel like yelling "THIS IS NOT FAIR!!!" I just haven't gotten to this part yet. I am still so focused on grieving the loss of my H and what I thought my future was going to be, that I can't even start this work yet. I am counting it as a positive step that I recognize it is holding me back, and it's on my to-do list.

As far as legal issues go . . . I have already been to a lawyer. Didn't learn much I didn't already know. We agreed a long time ago that we would handle this with mediation. My H claimed back then that he would give us well more than any court would order as far as financial support goes. We'll see what happens when it's real.

I have spent countless hours in therapy, on this site, reading, talking with friends, digging deep and working on recognizing the changes I need to make, and making them. But there is still so much work to do.

I realized today that I am still judging my H. I am doing it less, but I am still doing it. It is obviously a protective reaction . . . if I can blame my H or think he is bad, it takes the burden off of me. Well, that's the flawed logic, of course. This habit has gotten me nowhere good in the past. And I realized I have more work to do in this realm.

Same for this kind of thing . . . I can see that indeed, my H will lose far more in a D than I will. Even if he does have the kids 50% of the time. (BTW, UD, my H sees the kids almost every day of the week, and has them overnight two nights a week.) But I am ashamed to say, this doesn't give me much solace unless he realizes that this is true. I know . . . this goes back to the above where I admitted that I am too focused on my H and his feelings, and where I said I am still judging my H. I don't know exactly where this comes from - am I just a selfish person? Do I need everyone to see things my way? Do I need to "win"? I don't feel like any of those are true (anymore), yet I still find myself with these petty thoughts sometimes.

25, I admit that I have been unable to imagine my life five years from now, happy without my H. I have no idea what that looks like. The idea of imagining another man in my life - I can't even fathom it right now. That's not to say that I think my H is the best man on earth and I will never find another (though, as you said, there is a reason we got married, after all). I think it's more that I am so knee deep in this grief right now that I just don't see that; and I feel that with kids it is too complicated; and that I feel like if I did find someone, I wouldn't want to get married again, but I can't fathom a R that goes nowhere either . . . these are all things I am nowhere near addressing, of course.

I just don't know . . . I know I can have happy times. I can imagine five years from now, going on vacation with my kids and having fun. Being with good friends and enjoying myself. Maybe having a job that fulfills me (though I have no idea what that is). But I still see that cloud hanging overhead. The cloud that is there because our family is broken.

I have IC today and I think I am ready to really start focusing on me and what I want and need to make me happy. I am going to ask my C to help me with this, starting today.

I think that I lost a lot of myself in this M, and I need to find it again to know that I will be OK without H. It's definitely a process, but at least I have my work cut out for me.

I know I can do it.

As I was typing this, I had a short text convo with H - there is an event coming up that we all usually go to (actually, it was just me and H for about 5 years, then we started bringing the kids 2 years ago), and I thought we needed to figure out how that was going to go this year. So I put on my big girl panties and just said what I needed.

M: I would like to take the kids to XYZ on DATE; I don’t know if you had planned to go. I am happy to all go together, but it is important to me to be able to take the kids one way or the other. Let me know your thoughts.

H (20 seconds later): I'm not interested in going. You are welcome to take the kids. I'll put it on my calendar.

And when I read that, it stung - not because he doesn't want to go, but because of the way he talks to me. Maybe I am just oversensitive because of years of feeling slighted by him, but the "I'm not interested in going" just came across as kind of cold and mean to me.

But then I remembered - this is the way he has always talked to me. And he claims that it's not intended to be rude or cold, so therefore I should quit nagging him.

Oh 25, how right you are. He is losing way more in a D than I am.

While I was stuck in a meeting all morning for work, I was thinking about this exact same thing. And I was PISSED. My H decided that he no longer wants to be M, that he does not want obligations. My H decided that he is okay with being a part time dad. And by part time, he wants to be there for the fun. My oldest turned 5 today. In 5 years, my H has not bought one diaper, one article of clothing, has not filed out any school applications, etc. It was always my role and I was ok with it because to me it was a part of being a mom and I was good at it.

Being a mom is HUGE for me. I want to be a mom 100% of the time. I carried all three of my boys and have loved and cherished them every moment. I don't view them as a burden or as a restriction on my freedom. Yet, I am supposed to think about what is fair for my H and what is fair for the kids. As a LBS, do we just have to accept that no one is going to consider what is fair to us? My H will be getting exactly what he wants (at least based on his current thoughts). And I will be forced to give up my kids 50% of the time. I dont want that. I would not have had children if someone told me that I could only spend 50% of the time with them. It makes me so pissed that I get NO say in this.

It [censored] that ours Hs can unilaterally end the M, end the friendship, eliminate every dream that we may have had and on top of that take our children away 50% of the time. It actually makes me sick when I think about it.

I have no advice M, but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I am forgive and more beyond everything else. But I honestly dont know how I will ever forgive my H if he takes my kids away from me.

I hope that other vets will provide you with great advice.

Melissa,

I'll come back later when I can devote more time, but I want to point something out for you to mull right now.



Uh, considering that your H has passive aggressive tendencies, I see this as a huge positive. [Backing off, 'cause I see the steam coming out of your nose...] Positive? YES, POSITIVE.

A couple months ago, your H might have said yes and then followed up, and then acted like a baby because he agreed to do something you wanted but he didn't really want to do it. Or he'd tell you he'd go and maybe stood you up at the last minute. Melissa, this time, he told you what he wanted and he didn't waver. Can you see the growth in this? He either felt comfortable telling you no (which I'm really not inclined to think) or he decided he was sick and tired of feeling controlled and decided to forge forward at any cost. Either way, it's growth. He stood up for what he wanted.

And for the record, when my XH found his voice, he kind of reveled in it for a few months. He wasn't necessarily kind and acted like a petulant 4 year old who liked to hear himself say no. I had PROMISED myself not to punish him or denigrate him for telling me what he wanted to do. And then I just did what I wanted to do with the girls anyway. Everyone won.

So maybe expect him to wallow in his newfound voice for awhile. His general personality doesn't sound like he's a dick, so chances are he'll realize you're going on without him and he might back off on this stance. Don't be surprised if he rejects things he normally likes doing. Walk away. Your lack of resistance just might help this cause greatly. I'd hear him go into his litany of why he didn't want to do X, and instead of trying to persuade him it was the right thing to do (YUCK!), I just said okay. After a steady diet of that, he reconsidered.

Besides, like going on vacation, my guess is he's not good company anyway. Leave that little boy alone on the playground, okay?

I'll come back later to hit on some other points you made here then.

Hang in there,

Betsey

I can relate to the "life is not fair" about being a part-time parent, which I did not sign up for. It is the life I now know.

Unfortunately, it is the reality of these situations. Hopefully it will change for the two of you and this is only a temporary setback.

That being said, you have a choice. You can remain angry about the unfairness and hope to get your spouse to see that perspective or you can accept it and make the best of your time with your children. I can assure you, being angry will not get you closer to your goal. I also realize, that those emotions must be processed. So process those emotions and discard them.

Positive and confident are attractive. Angry and bitter are not.