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Ok so I am gonna take out a couple of 2x4s... Just because I love you Jon

First @NTX, Jon actually declared he was done at least 4 times with such conviction that I actually believed him the first 2. This last time when Jon said "too little too late" and everyone brought out the 2x4s ... I thought to myself "no way" Jon is not done.

Now Jon, you reframe the situation to say that actually you really are done with A B and C... And that is what you meant. I don't think you are being dishonest, but I don't think that you are looking closely enough at yourself.

Jon, realize that emotional volatility is a huge issue for you. Because you weren't being dishonest when you said you were done, and you meant that you were completely done at the time. This last time when Bond came out and defended you he had some good points ... if it weren't for all the previous times you were done, I would have been right there with him.

Next 2x4 ...

The reason your w is saying she is back is not necessarily because of good DBing.. I am not vet here and I am not really qualified to say what good DBing is, but I would say that based on what others talk about doing and what I read, you have done an average (at best) job of DBing (I am no better btw).

Example: You would validate, but then add some stream of logic or other stuff that would undo all the validation.

I think that your w "wants in" right now for a combination of reasons. I don't know if I buy what NTX said above about the possibility that OM ended it.

I think that a you are actually a bit of a natural at creating attraction using kind of a push/pull dynamic.. in and of itself I don't personally think creating attraction like that is a bad thing.. (I wish I could attract my w) But the things that happened in your sitch that created the push/pull are not a healthy way to sustain attraction in a relationship. Also, if I am right, the relationship won't sustain itself at all in the long run.

I think you have a great opportunity here Jon, but I think you and your w should get counseling (individually and together) ASAP

Good luck Jon!!

God 1st. Wife, Jon... That simple. Don't try to rationalize everything out in your head. This reminds of the parable of the prodigal son, after he got tired and support ran low he realized where he was loved. Now his father could said see that's what you get but he welcomed him with open arms. Don't try to be your W's judge that's not your place, pray for her and build your marriage on the one who sanctioned the covenant in the 1st place. DBing is great and all but we are ALL human and have our own way we think you should do things. Seek God Jon, man will fail you every time!

Forgiveness doesn't mean weakness... Actually its the opposite.

From my perspective, a spouse does not leave the other spouse in the lurch on a path forward in the restoration of a M. Act like a wingman to your W and take the lead. If I were you, I'd start with reading After the Affair by Janis Spring together as a starting point. Hopefully that will generate a discussion that will lead you two to researching and locating a MC counselor in your area that's trained in Gottman theories.

We've learned so much from DBing forums that we are ahead in the learning curve and makes sense to pull our spouses up in the next grade level, if you will. Just don't wait around for them to make a move in repairing the M. It takes two make it happen.

Take the lead, Jon.

Will respond more tomorrow. W did say tonight she would "go to counseling tomorrow if we could", her idea, not mine. I was glad she brought up. She also put her rings back on.

I joked with W about still having her maiden name on Facebook, and that if she changed back, it was gonna create quite a stir since so many friends have been praying and rooting for us. She said she wasn't going to until she talks to OM because she didn't want to hurt him. She disabled her account in front of me as a compromise, said she didn't want it to be an issue and said she called today, but when he called back, he only had a few seconds. I know Facebook is stupid, but the hesitation confused me because she's about to cut off all communication for the rest of her life with him. She said the PA was her fault and it was bad enough she let it happen and made him think they might have a relationship, then abruptly ended it, and then they have only talked twice since, so it's going to be a bit of a shock. I don't like it frankly but I'm trying to appreciate that the old W would've not even said anything or taken any responsibility. She did say again after she talks to him, she will give all passwords, access to phone records, she will call me every day she's not on schedule and tell me where she is, etc. I guess her absolute willingness to give me anything I want is a positive?

She said she was going to tell him she loved me, she was deeply and unshakably committed to me 100%, and she would never leave our marriage.

She came to show me her ring, and told me to please be patient, and that would not regret it, as she would do counseling, dating, whatever it took to make things right.

I want to be super happy, but I feel pretty dead right now. Almost no emotion at all. Maybe just because of the last few days.

She needs time to clean up/get rid of all the messages she doesn't want him to see. Maybe that's a consolation he can make. I know things my XW did that I haven't and wouldn't and don't see a reason to tell her I knew. It just depends on the person and the situation, I suppose. Some of that stuff that she may have written...does he really want to see that? I used to and it would eat at me, but I don't and wouldn't want to anymore. And I don't see much good from forcing it from her. That probably = fight. Is it worth it?

-PM

@PM - Yeah, I don't need to see anything. I just want her to be completely open about it.

@Gabby - she is still refusing to stop communicating with him until she can "completely break things off", so your suspicions may be right. She said she will give me her phone pass-code to see all the texts, and she is not texting anything "romantic" - she wants to be fair and not make him wonder what's going on because he isn't at fault. She said she is texting him about his friend fixing her car, and of course she has to text to schedule a time to talk. I told her she'd have to get her car fixed somewhere else because she is not going to see him to do that. Once she talks to him and tells him we're reconciling, then there will be no further contact.

At this point, I've just put a safe distance because you're right, it is a little fishy. I've told her how I feel, and that hasn't changed, so no need to harp on it.

Quick update, several scattered but interesting points on W:

1. W called me - out shopping with kids. Said she was still wearing her rings, so I guess that's good.

2. I got the AT&T login, and her social media accounts are all disabled now, so the only thing she can do is text/call - and I'll have the passcode to her phone so I will be able to see any calls/texts/messages I want. I can't look at it unless I'm with her anyway. I'm trying to balance my suspicions with reason/common sense. I'm saving my hard-core stuff for after the conversation when she will have no excuses.

3. Also, she said after she talks to him, she'll be re-enabling all of her social media stuff and putting her married name back up, and linking to me as her spouse (OM will be blocked). W probably is better friends with OM's sister, and they are FB friends, so this means early next week his sister, family, and all of their mutual friends will see it.

4. W told me, "After this awful experience, one thing I know is that no one will ever measure up to you, or even come close to what we have, if we can stop fighting about stupid stuff." She calls me, texts me little funny things, flirts with me, tells me constantly she loves me. The last time I was there with her having coffee, and we were just sitting together on the couch, and I had to go, she just laid her head on my shoulder and asked me to stay (I went anyway, keeping to DB principles still).

Maybe I'm naive, but I think her hesitation with OM is not because she's holding on to strong romantic feelings, or is doubtful about us, but its because of who OM is. He is a short, dumpy, fat guy with a beer belly; he dresses and lives like a slob; W described as "aloof" and a loner; has very few friends. I honestly believe that W was probably like an angel to him because she is tall, beautiful, classy; and although they ended the relationship about as soon as it began, they're still friends, and now he's gonna get completely cut off, and she feels sorry/bad for him. I guess I kinda feel sorry for him too. Geez.

5. Lastly, and probably the best sign - she told me to "prove her commitment", she said she would come to our church with me (she left probably 4 months ago and hasn't been back). This means she'll be wearing rings, and sitting by me in front of most of our mutual friends...

I don't mention it, but I am still working on DB principles. Allowing space when needed, validating and confirming feelings, not compromising my boundaries. The last few days have been extremely emotional and exhausting, and I know I didn't do well at it, so I'm starting fresh Monday again.

So, W actually came to church today. She wore her rings, and asked me to hold her hand as we walked in because she wanted people to know we were together, and sat very close to me with her hand on my leg.

Afterward, she asked if she and kids could come with us for lunch, and we just threw in a couple of pizzas at my house. I went to the movie room and put a movie in for S5, and came back up, and W was nowhere to be found. Finally went upstairs, and she was lying in our bed, all covered up. She said she wanted to "do stuff" with me (big wink) and take a nap, and asked me to snuggle her, so I did. It was nice. I decided no hanky panky, so we just slept for an hour or so. Its weird how good you sleep with someone!

She said she called OM again, and texted asking to talk, but he isn't responding so she thinks he knows what's up. I asked to see her phone, and she immediately handed it to me, and said I could look at whatever I wanted, and she isn't deleting anything, and if she was I would be able to tell because the cell bill wouldn't match up. She seems to be going WAY out if her way to try to be transparent.

Next week is going to be crazy busy, so we'll have a lot of apart time, probably until Saturday, so I think that'll be good.

Somewhere on here I read that a WAS often will want to be back in as quickly as they left... W is disgusted with herself, told me what she did is inexcusable. She will break down in tears randomly if I just compliment her or something minor, and come over and kiss me and say, "I'm SO sorry for hurting you." It is weird, but she begged me to please never do an A to her, because she said she'd probably lose her mind.

Oddly enough, we have abruptly switched spots. She pursues, initiates contact, talks about counseling, etc. She even bought 5LL, a book for me on surviving affair, and a book for her on fixing an affair...

Well done, Jon!

Slow and steady wins the race.

You're doing great Jon. I know you have counseling in the plans, please make it happen while the iron is hot. I would even say do it before moving back in together. Someone suggested Gottman based counseling, and I know Gottman's methods are backed by strong research.

My first w and I reconciled right before the holidays and that lasted until the end of January. I know everything seems great right now and you are taking it slow, but I personally would not hesitate at all on the counseling. Just my two cents.