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Still here Linda-cheering you on. Take care of yourself luv!

WR

Linda,

I've been keeping up with your sitch. Went AWOL for a while as there's some strange stuff happening in my life that needed to be processed and acknowledged. One day may post it in the Surviving D forum.

Since your H is one of those kitty kitten MLCers, I would suggest that you change things up a bit. When he talks nonsense about these OW's and such, I'd suggest that you start poking holes at them and hit him with "reality pill." Then sit back and observe. Time to show some steely backbone in your convos with H and hit him in the head now and then with comments that will crack his rose-colored glasses. If he objects or fusses around, just say that it is what a "friend would do" in looking out the best interests of their best friend.

Go on and experiment with this new approach! Then sit back and watch.

BTW, Happy Birthday Dear Linda!!!!!

hey linda

your h sounds alot like mine - my sympathies man. idk what he's up to- how stubborn & locked in they are to their decisions - which , of course, are ALLLLWAAAAYYYYSS way comsidered and correct.

me, i despair of this h ever ever acknowledging- apologizing - or even admitting to himself what he's done- or is "doing" on any level at all. no lie. he is blind and nuts to. nice!!!

in any "argument" - when he wonders why it's not okay to have friends - (same deal as you- what? fing your "friend" is exactly like goin fishin with your oither buddy - what planet does this guy either come from - or thik i do??? it's sooooooo three yer old-ish i m baffled. " it would all seem perfectly logical to him- and why not??? i swear- it's soooo nutty on just a general - real life basis- i never know what the heck to say ()or that could be said) that would make him say ah - ha! as in really understnading what the rest of the world doesn't even take explanation to know automatically. probably quite alot like arguing philosophy with your dog- glad no one is ever video tayhping us-

maybe they are really just androids or some kind of being tht is lacking the "heart" and "gut" of a real man- pinnochio..sorta comes to mind. . . and has that nose of deceit too....

idk- i hope your faith & love and hope are allll justified in the end. i'm feeling particularly floatie and detached - it's not nice. oh well huh:? i guess it's better than pain and PAIN...

like you- i'm not going anywhere any time soon- know that in my gut. i guess i myself have to reach "bottom" as in - do not care one stinking bit and know it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

was mulling over - on way back from airport- someting h said two years ago when i became aware of all this - that whatever we had was gone forever. boy - is he sure right there. idk what it could be now or is ever likely to. brain can't "go there" - honestly- just stops on today.

is THAT detachment? feelin empty here - thinking about you- wondering about women like us- what in the world it takes to shake us & our "rock" status. both in us and in them.

oh well- it's too heavy for me- i just don't have any mental energy to consider it. i'm hoping you're okay- i'm thinking about ya -

dawn too - it's sure a wackier world than i'd ever imagined. i'm sure soooo glad i didn't know all this or feel all this any time before now. i honestly am glad i didn't have to feel this skepticism and discouragement about people when i was young - who knows what kind of a person that makes one....

shudder - shudder-

maybe i'll go clip the ole rose of sharon some more- and try to begin digging out my work room a bit. and figure out where in the world i can hang work cloths - my closet space all of a sudden seems too darn jammed up- needing decent "official" work wardrobe -

thank goodness it's a relatively casual kind of thing- what i wear to school and also the fact that the classes and school changes from day to day- concievably i could wear the same slax every single day and change my shirt, sweater & blazer and who would ever notice????

yay for being "invisible" - kind of. i guess the good news about being a non-entity with nobody around juding ya. woo hoo huh/
hope you're okay

xxoo

hey linda

your h sounds alot like mine - my sympathies man. idk what he's up to- how stubborn & locked in they are to their decisions - which , of course, are ALLLLWAAAAYYYYSS way comsidered and correct.

me, i despair of this h ever ever acknowledging- apologizing - or even admitting to himself what he's done- or is "doing" on any level at all. no lie. he is blind and nuts to. nice!!!

in any "argument" - when he wonders why it's not okay to have friends - (same deal as you- what? fing your "friend" is exactly like goin fishin with your oither buddy - what planet does this guy either come from - or thik i do??? it's sooooooo three yer old-ish i m baffled. " it would all seem perfectly logical to him- and why not??? i swear- it's soooo nutty on just a general - real life basis- i never know what the heck to say ()or that could be said) that would make him say ah - ha! as in really understnading what the rest of the world doesn't even take explanation to know automatically. probably quite alot like arguing philosophy with your dog- glad no one is ever video tayhping us-

maybe they are really just androids or some kind of being tht is lacking the "heart" and "gut" of a real man- pinnochio..sorta comes to mind. . . and has that nose of deceit too....

idk- i hope your faith & love and hope are allll justified in the end. i'm feeling particularly floatie and detached - it's not nice. oh well huh:? i guess it's better than pain and PAIN...

like you- i'm not going anywhere any time soon- know that in my gut. i guess i myself have to reach "bottom" as in - do not care one stinking bit and know it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

was mulling over - on way back from airport- someting h said two years ago when i became aware of all this - that whatever we had was gone forever. boy - is he sure right there. idk what it could be now or is ever likely to. brain can't "go there" - honestly- just stops on today.

is THAT detachment? feelin empty here - thinking about you- wondering about women like us- what in the world it takes to shake us & our "rock" status. both in us and in them.

oh well- it's too heavy for me- i just don't have any mental energy to consider it. i'm hoping you're okay- i'm thinking about ya -

dawn too - it's sure a wackier world than i'd ever imagined. i'm sure soooo glad i didn't know all this or feel all this any time before now. i honestly am glad i didn't have to feel this skepticism and discouragement about people when i was young - who knows what kind of a person that makes one....

shudder - shudder-

maybe i'll go clip the ole rose of sharon some more- and try to begin digging out my work room a bit. and figure out where in the world i can hang work cloths - my closet space all of a sudden seems too darn jammed up- needing decent "official" work wardrobe -

thank goodness it's a relatively casual kind of thing- what i wear to school and also the fact that the classes and school changes from day to day- concievably i could wear the same slax every single day and change my shirt, sweater & blazer and who would ever notice????

yay for being "invisible" - kind of. i guess the good news about being a non-entity with nobody around juding ya. woo hoo huh/
hope you're okay

xxoo

hey - sorry for postinjg the above twice - i don't even know how i could do it-

Hi, what if you do that, which I have done and he agrees with you about the OP's saying that they are horrible, crabby people, that's why there is an attraction in the first place?

I know with my H he likes the harsh treatment. My H said, don't you think I know who EA is and your right, she's a maggot.

What do we do with our H's that hold on to that harsh treatment and call us soft? My H is a kitten too, by what I think you mean. But, his ea is a she-devil.

heyhi linda -

just wrote you some big old (most probaly booooring) "note" here and totally lost it somehow - this darn laptop- my fingers will never get usEd to having to perch above keyboard and never touch sides or bottom or whatever the heck it is that i whammed it away with.

GOOD NEWS FOR YOU THO- I'LL BE brief and say im thinking of you like mad and hope you're okay- doing okay- and your h's new "phase" isn't making you or him too crazy. I wouldn't include his welfare if it didn't impact you sooooooo very much. i'm hoping both of you are in a better place???

i keep getting struck with the notion (like any good american) that somehow "winning a lottery" would change or fix something (everything) - and then realizing (of course) it wouldn't change or fix a darn thing. money seems soooooo important all the time to everyone - but it isn't usally the answer to anyhthing really (other than paying the bills). as far as life & heart it's powerless. AND then i get the notion i should "run away" and "change everything" - like, again, something i can do would impact all this and somehow change or fix it- like in a hurry. you know- allllllll those drug companies telling me daily that by taking a pill i can "fix" all my ills, it's a national mentality. i REALLY WOULD love some Instant gratification please. i am amazed i "buy into" it as much as i must do-. those little thoughts that pop into one's head- and then immediately my brain has to reply - yeah- if only it WERE THAT EASY - HUH? WOULDN'T LIFE BE GREAT . too darn many tv shows with happy endings -

one has to wonder about our societal outlook in life- totally sit-com oriented and overly "sentimental" or something. just sayin.....

take care- thinking of you- sending up little prayers - hoping somehow it all matters....

xxoo hope your day is okay and you are okay.

Good morning all! Thank you all for kindly dropping in, I wish I could give you all a cup of coffee and a hug. Speaking of hugs, one of my friends just posted his experiences at Citizens Police Academy in New York City. One of the things he related:

"They showed us videos of how to spot gang members by how they act on the street. #1 "giveaway" was that thing where you reach around each other with a bit of space between your bodies, one hand around one shoulder, and clap each other on the back with the other hand."

So that answers the question of why our MLCers give us that dreaded <pat><pat> hug -- they have secretly been initiated into a GANG! The MLC Gang? Hmmm, it would also explain why they all give the exact same speeches (ie "I love you but...") -- they are given MLC gang member scripts to follow when they join up! Who knew??

Yesterday was my Scorpio H's birthday. He is 1 year and 1 week younger than I am and never lets me forget it We had a nice day, he did not want to go out, but he wanted to share a take out fried fisherman's platter dinner, and drove me up to the fish store to pick it up. He liked S28's gift (beer!) but told me to return the slippers I bought him because his feet shrunk and they won't fit him, but wouldn't even try them on. Plus he does not need slippers, he has the ugly booties RT knit for him. Wonka, I was considering using this as my first opportunity to "poke holes" in his OW nonsense, but didn't have the nerve. I've missed you, thanks for posting. Your old thread is locked up, and there's no way to get in touch with you to see if you're okay. I never heard of anybody's feet shrinking. He is so nutty sometimes.

Nero I don't know if this is detachment. I feel empty too. I do not hurt as much any more, but also do not love H as much any more. I can tell you that the rejection of my gift did not tear my heart out like it once would have. Look at what rH just wrote on Mnt Man's thread, this is what I have been hoping for, praying would happen with my H too, but I feel as if I get any more detached, I will NOT be there all shining and waiting for him when he wakes up out of his fog:

rH"I remember last Christmas when I was so desparate and turned to a long-time mutual guy friend that loves both me and H. We talked for an hour on the phone and he kept reiterating "your H is in a fog" and telling me to be strong and that when H comes out of the fog that I would be there bright and shining like the light to draw him home.

And he was right...my H DID come out of the fog! And I WAS there!"

I so appreciate that rH, both the encouragement to poor Mtn Man who is going thru the pits right now, and to all of us. But did you ever feel your love shrinking or dwindling or something? My feeling of detachment frightens me. Depresses me a bit. I still love my H enormously, but so much less than I did only a week ago. I feel as if my heart is growing a shell to protect itself, and am afraid that it will be too thick and icy for H to thaw if and when he ever wakes up from the fog. I understand what you and Dawn said about your Hs needing to hit bottom, that your H said he told you that "he needed to hit bottom once or twice to see reality". I don't know what the bottom would be for my H. I had hoped it would be Moscow. I can see now that his foggy eyes see some of his situation with RT clearly. And that he is playing a game leading her on, pretending to be planning to divorce me. Maybe hitting the bottom will be when she sends the Russian Mafia after his butt. She is a hellion and I cannot see her voluntarily giving her dream to get a green card up easily or quietly.

T2 "RL, I would bet now that he has lived his Russian fantasy, and seen the "not-so-fantastic" realities, it may take him some time to let go of it...he may keep hanging onto looking for some magical way to make it what he thought it was. Because, he couldn't have been wrong about it, right?

My IC seems to think W is going through that process...she could not have been wrong, and T2 DEFINITELY is not going to be "right" (lol), so let's try to hang onto it, re-work it, etc..."

I agree, Pud "Very genius thoughts t^2. They insisted it was the right thing to do, now they can't possibly be wrong can they? LOL. that gives me small hope, thank you for that insight." It gives me hope too. Big hope!

Also what Bright wrote: "Yes, this. “They insisted it was the right thing to do” applies to my H big time! He is very stubborn and it will take a major fall down to make him to re-evaluate his decision.

Rosa, I kind of had the same thoughts about your H’s behavior. He is buying his time by pretending that he is moving towards the D decision. I’m not sure what he is hoping to achieve by doing this though. Maybe he is trying to convince himself. Time will tell." Thanks Bright. I don't know if even HE knows what he is hoping to achieve by playing this game. Maybe that would be just a bit too much clarity for a MLCer at this time. And my H was NEVER one to admit he could possibly be wrong about anything even pre-MLC

Thanks for checking on me Portia , your posts are always introspective and thought provoking. And honest! -- "From an outside perspective, it seems that he does not have much incentive to change right now - you and OW are still competing. His ego is loving it. I don't think it matters who or what she is - she feeds his ego. Her demands, even while annoying to him, feed his ego. She wants to be with him that badly. The more she "begs", the better he feels. Even if HE is aware that it is impossible for them to be together. In truth, your H is using two women right now - you and OW. I cannot begin to understand that mentality.

I am thrilled that you stated your boundary and hope for your sake that you do not have to enforce it. When you become stronger or more detached, you might draw a line at him contacting OW while in your home - that YOU pay for. If he wants to talk to her, he leaves the house. We are told only to set boundaries that we can enforce and you may not be ready for that."

No, I'm not able to enforce that boundary, demanding he leave the house to talk to RT, so will not try, although I would love to. He does honor the boundary I set last April, that he only talk to her in his room, and not in front of me.

I know exactly what you are saying, and agree. Lots of cake eating here. But I am determined to let him go thru his journey in his own way at this time, as long as it's not killing me

Thanks for dropping by, Rose and Heather. I cherish your friendship and support! Heather, no subject is off limits on my thread, all "hijacks" accepted at all times Maybe my sons and I should get together for an intervention on my H!

Rosa, I too sometimes struggle with that over detached, no longer in love with my spouse feeling, and I don’t like it. If I have to be totally detached, I might as well be gone. Total detachment is a mistake when you live together, I’d say. Here’s my take:

Detachment is for us. We only need to detach as far as is necessary to protect us from being hurt, and this level will vary between people and even between periods of our sitch. Detach too much, lose the loving feeling. Don’t detach enough, get hurt. Like everything else, it’s a dance.

Let me try to explain. Like you, I live with my MLC spouse and we still do things for each other, have conversations, etc. This maintains connection, or attachment. Like when your H took you to the hospital and took care of you at home, or when he does home projects. Or when my W does all the laundry and cleans the kitchen, or makes meals. Likewise, we do plenty for our spouses. Many of these things we don’t have to do. This is one way we show love to each other.

So I would suggest if you feel like you’re losing the loving feeling for H, you try to reach out and do something for him. Something that you know he will appreciate. When he thanks you, you’ll know you hit the mark! Likewise you may try to ask him for things. Little things that you’re pretty sure he wouldn’t mind doing for you. When he steps up and does something you requested, you’ll feel some of the love he most certainly still has for you.

In sitches like ours, this seems better than the “Pull back and hope they figure out that they miss us” tactic… which to me, is best reserved for last resort, like when they move out or initiate D.

Let us know how it goes.

FY, interesting that you mention this detachment "dance" to RL today. I just posted about that on my thread! I, too, am struggling with this.

RL, I like what FY says about being detached. I have been REALLY worrying about the whole detachment thing...because my H is still at home, too. It makes it very, very hard to find the right balance.

If I detach too much, he gets upset and thinks I don't care anymore....but we do have to detach for our own sanity, too.

And, RL, I truly admire your strength and your determination in standing for your marriage and for your MLCer. It isn't easy but you are so brave. I totally get others seeing it as "cake-eating"...but you know what is right for you.