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Ambivalent, I don't mind answering questions at all, even repeating.

Our last child was born almost 20 years ago, so the complete lack of libido has been about that long. A few years after the birth, her sexual participation went to exactly zero. I have to laugh when I read that a sexless marriage is defined as one with low frequency, like 6 times a year. I still think that no sex in many years is yet another category. At least those who reconnect every month or two have some sort of familiarity and comfort with that activity with each other.

And what is my need? I'd say once a day on average. I'm OK skipping a day, but then it's fun to do 2-3 times the following day. Been pretty constant my whole life. I think my wife sees me as a sex-obsessed teenager in an adult man's body. She liked that focus when we first met, perhaps as a validation. But as often happens in a marriage, the very same quality that you first admired in your spouse is later the same quality you learn to hate. She accepts that I'm like that, and even buys me pin-up calendars to keep me happy, but she doesn't want any part of it herself.

I don't think she's ever successfully masturbated. She admitted as much when we first met, and I haven't seen any change since. Sure I've suggested a vibrator many times. See, the problem isn't my lack of suggestions. Rather, it's that she doesn't want to talk about it, and so it doesn't matter what the details are of what I bring up. Bringing up another fact is just me wanting to talk about that sex thing again.

As for just "giving" when she's not horny, I think she got just plain sick of giving me frequent HJ's for years, which is all I got for about 5 years. And then nothing. I can understand that on her part -- I mean she was getting nothing out of it. Very time consuming.

About the business of it being selfish not to "give" when one is not horny oneself... well, you're turning my wife's view on its head. She thinks it's selfish of me to want her to just service me. And that's hard to dispute because I'm the only one who's enjoying it. She's very good about other things, like being helpful to the family in almost every other way. She sees those things as socially redeeming ways of giving. I think the sex for her has become something akin to gambling, drinking, smoking, playing video games,... you know, something where you're just wasting valuable time in your own zone in your own head for your own selfish kicks and not really helping or contributing in an outward sense. Hard to argue against.

As for STDs being rampant, well, only if you're an idiot about what you do and if you have little fantasy and imagination for a wide variety of safe erotic activities.

It's not silly at all if sex is very important to you, which it seems to be.

From my perspective, we all have "deal breakers" when it comes to marriage. I think of it like a pyramid, there is a small set of things at the top that are extremely important to you, and if that falls apart, "being married" is no longer worth it, because you will be tortured and struggle to maintain your integrity. It could include religious beliefs, handling money, sobriety, parenting, sex, etc. Everyone's list is going to be different, they are like core principles. The next level down the pyramid are going to be chronic annoyances if they are out of sync, but not deal breakers, and then further down are the things that are just quickly forgotten.

If your spouse changes their behavior and violates your deal breakers, you've got to deal with that or leave. I think DB is about helping you deal with those issues such that they are resolved. Often your needs are unmet because your spouse's needs are not met, or you get into mutually destructive cycles of interaction.

For some people, sexual incompatibility is going to be below the deal breaker line, for others it will be in the deal breaker category.

If sex is on someone's "deal breaker" list, that doesn't make them silly.



It's not absurd at all if you enter into a new relationship with the mutual understanding that having sex is very important to you. If you enter into a relationship with that understanding, and your new spouse fails to deliver, then it is not absurd to switch it all over again.

If financial stability was very important to you, and you married someone who was very financially responsible, but then later became a completely irresponsible spender, it would not be absurd to leave them if they refused to change their behavior. They would be openly disrespecting a value that you hold dear. They could argue all day long that your attitudes about money are not the "right" ones, and that their attitudes were just as valid, and they would be "right" in the abstract, but not right in the context of the marriage. I see this dynamic as the same as a marriage that starts out with sex and becomes sexless.

If my wife told me she would never have sex with me again, and I knew she was serious and would not entertain discussion, I would leave immediately, I wouldn't even have to think about it. I would not live my life that way, and I don't feel "silly" or "absurd" for taking that position. My wife knows that's how I feel, she knows what the stakes are and where my boundary line is drawn.

Your strong reaction to it, calling it "silly" and "absurd" is interesting - why do you think you react so strongly?

I have enjoyed posting with you, and I have intentionally been provocative, I hope I'm not annoying you, I'm trying to push.

My premise is this -- if you were at all "okay" with this, or at peace with it, you would not be here. The way you write implies that sex is in your deal breaker category, but you are trying to convince yourself otherwise, and that's what bothers me.

If it's a deal breaker for you, embrace that. Otherwise you're kidding yourself and living in a prison of your own construction.

Some people are high desire, there's nothing wrong with that.

Some people are low desire, there's nothing wrong with that.

Some people have marriages with desire gaps, but the desire gap doesn't bother either party, they've made peace with it. There's nothing wrong with that. That does not seem to be your situation.

Some people have marriages where the desire gap DOES bother the HD partner, in fact it tortures them. That seems to be where you are.

Sometimes LD is due to factors that can be addressed and sexual desire can be heightened. To pursue that path requires motivation, and there are no guarantees.

Sometimes LD cannot be addressed, no matter what you do. That is just the person's sexuality and can't be changed.

My opinion, in the spirit of Divorce Busting, is that an LD partner *owes it* to the HD partner to investigate what can be done physically or psychologically to boost desire, assuming the marriage is otherwise good and the HD partner is delivering upon what the LD partner needs. It's simply balance and mutual respect to do so. It doesn't seem to be a reasonable attitude to tell your spouse that you don't care about their needs and are just going to do whatever you want.

It may not work, you may never get the sex life you want, but I would submit that seeing your spouse's consideration of your needs and *ongoing* commitment to your happiness will often be enough to deliver satisfaction and peace. If it is not, then I think you are doing your spouse a disservice by staying with them if you are not able to find peace and happiness.

If sex is important to you, and you get no sex, that can be torturous, it can make you ruminate, it can make you resentful. It can make you swallow a lot of anger and do a lot of pretending about your mental state.

If your spouse does not show consideration for your needs, and an ongoing commitment to your happiness, but instead presents you with a "too bad" attitude, while at the same time taking everything you have to offer, I think it's silly and absurd to stay with them. Instead, you should change property, inheritance, in-laws, step kids, and houses so that you can be the person you are, and exist in a state of peace and fulfillment. Your spouse can always decide to step up before it comes to that if they choose to. And if they don't? Good riddance.

Okay. So it has nothing to do with her age or her being post childbearing/post menopause.



Okay, so kids can completely wear out a woman and when one is exhausted libido dies.

After they went to school, unless you had kids with serious needs, she should have recovered . Unless you homeschooled. That can also wear out a gal.


I CAN see where once a day would be much. Especially if she never has any satisfaction. Sooooo once a week could have been a compromise. Nothing....everyday...this could be seen as a middle ground. IDK.


Suggesting a vibrator and giving her one are two completely different things. I recommend a lelo.

I was given one at my bridal shower back in 1984. It was quite a surprise. My mother's friend gave it to me. Pretty open minded for the time!

Anyway, after I got over my embarrassment and shock eventually curiosity got the best of me!

Buy one and a book which is instructive about the female genitalia. Place a hand mirror nearby, so she can look at herself.

It could be placed in your bathroom. If she has never had an orgasm, it is very sad. Perhaps this may be a beginning. Also, let her know you want to please her.

Help her to see why you need what you need. Help her to understand that this is part of marriage. So much so, that the Catholic Church which does not believe in divorce, considers this grounds for divorce!

Perhaps take a long drive with her out in the country, and while she is trapped in the car, nowhere to run, have a coming to God conversation!

There is a compromise, and marriage is about this. Also the book SSM, if not on cd or tape. Read and tape yourself then play it in the car.

At this point you have NOTHING to lose!

Make sure you are at least a half an hour to more away, in case she tells you to turn around . Now you don't have to, but it may be effective.

Another idea, video tape yourself having this conversation. This way she cannot interrupt and walk away. Make it difficult for her to ignore you.

I don't mean to follow her around the house, but emails, or video's are there. She can view or re-read without you watching her.

Everything you say makes perfect sense if you assume that you can only have sex with a person you are married to. I don't mind anyone having that standard for themselves. But for me, if that original marriage "agreement" is not fulfilled, then open marriage, for example, seems no worse than the option of divorce.

I'd have to be convinced why divorce is such a happy option compared to open marriage in my case. I think there's a huge difference in this argument for a newly married couple vs. a marriage with grown kids.

You talk about torture and resentment. That's exactly what we don't have. Seems to be very hard for many people to understand that.

Probably good advice for other people in similar situations, but I've already tried many of those verbal confrontations. Even got her a book for women to have their own orgasms years ago. She was annoyed as heck and dismissed it with some comment like "is that all you can think about?"

What I mean is that the upheaval of divorce seems like a huge and unnecessary drama when you can have great sex in an open marriage. Furthermore, at this point, I'm not interested in marrying someone else just to solve the sexual problem.

I'm not talking about "open marriage" like some kind of controversial reality show with all its drama. I'm talking about what's going on a lot more than people think -- quiet marriages where property, healthcare, benefits, inheritance is all the way people want it, but everyone agrees they'd like to have some fun, or not deny it to other loved ones. We're not going to have any more kids, which is a big part of what marriage legally supports in a nice way. Realigning all that for each and every sexual relationship of unknown duration really is absurd.

Yes I see what you're saying. For me, it would be hard to imagine having fulfilling sex with someone I didn't love, but that's just me and there is nothing at all wrong with viewing that differently.

So when will you have the open marriage discussion with W?

When will you start practicing open marriage and how do you plan to find partners?

My best friends have been mostly women for many years, and my wife is good friends with them too and never had a problem with it. We sometimes hang out as a group and have fun. My wife even plans activities with some of them and then they invite me to come along.

Ambivalent, one of the biggest problems with getting your advice to her is that it puts me in the position of implying that I'm sexually OK and that she is the one with a deficient sexuality. I never had any luck sugarcoating it. No matter how positively I try to frame it -- that it's for her enjoyment too, etc. -- she still sees that comparison and resents it.

So she's had some "big sister" friends who have spoken very positively about female sexuality and it seems to have softened her position a bit, but not enough to take any action.