I guess you believe your answer is some sort of compromise. But, between what? A kind fair response that puts your daughter's happiness above all else, and you yelling epithets at your wife?
I see no movement here, except you were polite.
Originally Posted By: suckerpunch
As always, thanks everyone for the insights and advice. I decided to contact my STBXW with this reply to her request.
"I am going to have to get back to you about D birthday. You probably shouldn't make any concrete plans until I know what our schedule of events will be. I will let you know as soon as possible." She went on to make a point that we will be sharing time with daughter for a long time, years and years. I said that I agreed, You "agreed" and then you did nothing different...(I wonder how new that behavior is.)
Your wife made the point that WE are trying to make with you. Your position, evidently, is that if it's YOUR day, then no matter what else (Mother's day, your wife's birthday, your DAUGHTER'S Birthday, )
YOU think YOU "WIN"....but we're trying to show you that down the road IF NOT NOW, you will regret this choice. YOU will and so will your daughter.
OF course this isn't like any other day you are scheduled to have your daughter.
Of course you two should share it. Will it be awkward or inconvenient for YOU? Maybe so. It might well be. But you will have to deal with that b/c remember that your daughter is the priority.
Why make her choose between her parents on her birthday? That's what YOU are doing by making this so complicated. Have a party and let your wife come. And YES if she's got someone new in her life, they get to go too.
May "Seem tacky" but it happens all the time. The new person in your w's life seems important to her AND he makes a genuine effort to be kind to your d.
FOR ONE MINUTE think how awful it would be if he found your d annoying and inconvenient and did Not want to share your wife with her so that your d could feel rejected by her mom and "the new guy"....that happens more than you realize although usually it's with a OW and a WAH.
The kids suffer so much. But this OM happens to be good to your d. I KNOW that doesn't help your ego, but it has to mean something good to you.
Like I said, when our nanny loved my kids and they loved her, I sucked it up and thanked God that my kids had another adult giving them affirmations and support in growing up.
They never called her "mom" and your d won't call OM "daddy" either.
and that as soon as I knew what we were doing I would make some arrangements with her to see D.
Why not include the mother of your child, in deciding what to do for the birthday? Did that cross your mind?
YES we know this year it happens to fall on "YOUR" day but it is still the birthday for your d, not you. Why are you getting to choose everything? So proprietary of the time that ought to be shared. For me this is so clear.
So, think about this as something called CO-parenting...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
It seems that you are missing a critical piece to relationship happiness- empathy. You seem very concerned with how other people hurt you or your feelings, yet are simultaneously unable to see how your words and actions affect and hurt others.
I suspect it is your lack of empathy that has driven your wife away - whether or not she is aware of the word or it's meaning. To her it feels as if everything has to revolve around you. What matters to her is never considered, unless it serves you as well. Several times by my count (I read all of your many, many posts) she has reached out to you in a very vulnerable way, by phone, text and in person. You squandered each opportunity to connect with her by throwing back at her how YOU were the hurt one, or how YOU were the one in the right. You've blown it at every chance she's thrown to you.
Reading DB, DR, or any other book will do you no good if you don't start empathizing with your wife (or anyone for that matter). Unless you've got a serious personality disorder, empathy can be learned- that's the good news.
You can start where it will most likely be the easiest for you: empathizing with your daughter. Sit in a quiet room and try to see life through her eyes. Imagine living through her day. Imagine how she sees you (not how she should see you, or how you see you). Imagine the emotions she is grappling with each day. Imagine the turmoil her world is in. How are each of the people in her life touching her? Who makes her feel safe and warm? Who makes her fear for her future? Who makes her happy and how? Who makes her sad and why?
We're you able to sit through the exercise and come out feeling like you understand her better, or did you focus on you and become impatient with it?
With few exceptions on this board, we have contributed directly to the issues we currently face in our marriages. Part of growing is learning from these mistakes an changing ourselves for the better. If you cannot see how you contribute to your own unhappiness, and the unhappiness of those around you, you will never see the need to make the changes in yourself that are required- for you and your family. you get advice on this board that you either simply dismiss, or put up a defense against.
You got you here. Do not attempt to shift the blame to anyone else, circumstance, or the universe. It's on you. If you had been looking at your actions as they affected your wife all along, you would be happily married right now and not posting on here. Writing back to me to defend yourself will not bring your wife back. Owning it and making changes might.
I'm hoping for your sake (but mostly your daughter's) that you are able to change.
I think your post was a bunch of mind-reading and unnecessary passive-aggressive...well...sucker-punches (for lack of a better term). Here's how I read it (counting the punches):
Quote:
1) You have no empathy. 2) In fact, this is the most likely reason why your wife left you. 3) Since she left you, she has reached out to you to give you opportunities to reconcile, but since you're just so terrible at empathy you ruined all those chances too. 4) You may have a serious personality disorder, but probably not, so you probably can change. Probably. Isn't that good news?!?!? 5) Even though you never mentioned that you don't think you're at fault AT ALL for your marriage's demise, I'm going to act like you did and remind you that it was, in fact, all your fault. 6) Everything that happens in your life is your fault, so stop trying to shift the blame. Heck, a random stranger could walk up and stab you in a crowded street and it would be your fault. Start owning up to this! 7) I pity you, but even more so, I pity your daughter. If you won't change for yourself, please change for her. 8) Don't bother correcting any of the things I said that may be incorrect. Don't defend yourself. That won't bring your wife back. Sitting back and letting people who don't know you dog on you...THAT might get your wife back. So let me insult you repeatedly and you just sit there and take it.
I do not think you meant it that way, HopefulStill, but your post wasn't even directed at me and it still stung me. Perhaps I am missing some intentional irony in the very un-empathetic nature of a post lecturing another on empathy...
I'm not looking to start a fight, I just found that to be over the line.
To suckerpunch,
I'm not saying you're perfect, my friend, but I understand your feelings. I'm glad you came here to ask questions and I agree with others that have said the first thing you should think about is your daughter. If it's her birthday, then you have to suck it up and find a way to share time.
Make that a habit...to think of your your daughter first in every situation.
But I'm glad you asked! It means you're trying to be better, and that's what we're all after.
The feelings of anger will likely subside as you move on with your life. I can certainly understand why you're having them, just be sure they don't control you. HS is right about YOU being in control of YOUR happiness.
When I'm experiencing emotions that I don't like or know might lead to me acting in a manner I know I would regret, I do two things:
1) I start an internal thought process of examining where those feelings are deriving from. I think it both distracts me and makes me prove to myself if my feelings are valid and worthy of being acted on. 2) I pray and ask for to feel the peace I know He has to offer.
All the best,
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
[quote=labug]PM, have you read SP's sitch from the beginning?
I have and I read Hopeful's post very differently. [/quote I know it's not a contest, but fwiw, I literally read all of SPs posts, including the very first posts which I responded to back then, and have cited them before, b/c he admitted a lot in those days...things that he forgets he told us.
Anyhow, I read Hopeful's comments more like LA Bug did. I think there has been tremendous resistance from SP here, and maybe, just maybe, hopeful felt it was time to lay it down for him.
It's an approach that can have validity when you see a history like this.
Anyone who really has read all of SPs threads, is to be commended.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I appreciate anyone that has taken the time to read my posts and help me through this. I am a work in progress, and I do truly wish to come out of this as a better man. I am working on it. I really am. I know a lot of you feel that I have made no changes, but that is simply not the case. I have grown, and I will continue to grow.
Wife has contacted me since the last text regarding D's birthday, asking for more time with her. She wished to have her on a Thursday for a few extra hours, as well as on a Sunday for Canadian Thanksgiving with her family. For Thanksgiving, she wished to have her from 2pm and keep her overnight so that W and OM would be able to join W's family in Canada. That was a hard pill to swallow, but I did it. I know that will more than likely be a fun day for daughter, and she deserves to spend time with all of her family, so I agreed to let her go. As hard as that was for me, I will let her go. I also agreed to let W have daughter for a while on her birthday. It is getting better with time.
I do get the post about empathy, and I am sure it does hold a lot of merit. I do however feel that I am not the only person to blame in the demise of my marriage. I have given this lots and lots of thought. And, I know, 25, that you feel that I have completely changed my stance on my role in this, but I haven't. I know I didn't do things right. I know it. All of those things I said in the beginning, I still admit to. I wasn't the greatest husband, far from it. The probable change in my attitude now is, that I later took the time to look at wifes role as well, and her side was pretty darn ugly. She was selfish. She was single minded and stubborn. She was not willing to compromise or negotiate at all. She was not dedicated to me what so ever, which should be fairly apparent with her decision to start dating almost immediately after our separation. During out entire relationship, she never WORKED on it at all. She expected me to make every change to suit her and make HER happy. She was FAR from being a loving and understanding W to me. She had her own agenda, and that is clearly apparent to me now. Does that make her a bad person? No. Doers it make it her fault that the marriage failed? No. Does it make me the one who should hold the majority of the blame? Absolutely not, and I am not about to go through life with the feeling that it was. I honestly feel that W holds a bigger part in it all than a lot of you care to acknowledge, and I also feel that she was the one to ultimately BAIL on the relationship when it no longer served her. That is something that I probably won't change my stance on. Does that mean I cannot learn to treat her with dignity and respect? Does that mean I cannot co-parent with her? No it doesn't, but I will need to learn to be an even better man to do so. My God, I am trying to be a better man, for my sake, daughters sake and wifes sake. I just have a whole lot of hurt to get passed in the process.
The second to last sentence that you wrote is what gives me hope for you. Without acknowledging a need to change, one can expect zero growth. You can see that you need to change, you just have a tough time landing on what that change should be, and how to achieve it.
Learning how to be more empathetic will help you keep your conflicts with your wife (and any others) low because you will refrain from speaking to them in a way that is likely to hurt them. Additionally, you will see your own actions in a different light. I wish I had more time right nowto go through this, perhaps later.
I see you again list your wife's faults and mistakes. I, for one, am certainly not suggesting that your wife is without blame in your situation. However, you, not your wife, is posting here, so we can only focus on what changes YOU can make. Additionally, her actions were not formed in a vacuum. There are systems in place here. You do something, she reacts. You, then, react to her reaction, making things worse. In turn, she reacts in an even less productive manner, and on and on we go. At some point, one of you (and you're the one here) must grow up and stop the cycle of unhealthy interaction. You are both in such conflict- each demanding that their needs be met before they will meet the others. At some point, one of you (you) must agree to meet the others needs without the promise that their (your) needs will be met in return. Stop the finger pointing and try something different!!
I continue to recommend the empathy exercise for you. I think the perspective you gain will be relationship altering.
That was a hard pill to swallow, but I did it. I know that will more than likely be a fun day for daughter, and she deserves to spend time with all of her family, so I agreed to let her go. As hard as that was for me, I will let her go. I also agreed to let W have daughter for a while on her birthday. It is getting better with time.
Great, that's a good attitude to have about it!
Quote:
Does it make me the one who should hold the majority of the blame? Absolutely not, and I am not about to go through life with the feeling that it was. I honestly feel that W holds a bigger part in it all than a lot of you care to acknowledge
Like 25 always says, lose the scorecard. No one here has said your W is blameless, all we've been saying is your posts have been almost solely focused on blaming your W for everything while owning none of your own faults. Even in this post you say you did have your faults, "BUT..." Whenever you say "but" you negate everything before it. DB'ing is all about owning your faults, forgiving your spouse for theirs, and moving on to make yourself the best possible person you can. You have never owned your faults because in your eyes, your W's faults are worse. What we're telling you is her faults DO NOT MATTER. Those are HERS to own. They are HER roadblock to being the best possible person she can be. You've got to focus on your faults and let hers go.
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Does that mean I cannot learn to treat her with dignity and respect? Does that mean I cannot co-parent with her? No it doesn't, but I will need to learn to be an even better man to do so.
Exactly. This is one of the most profound observations you've made in quite a while. Now set some goals for being that better man, what does that look like? How can you achieve that?
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My God, I am trying to be a better man, for my sake, daughters sake and wifes sake. I just have a whole lot of hurt to get passed in the process.
Good, now you're starting to get at the root of things!! How can you process that hurt without converting it into anger? If you let the hurt become anger, it will never go away. But if you can process the hurt without letting it become anger, you will heal and emerge a better person.
